Brootse Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 In the River of Cradles book it's stated on the Issaries cult's description that his priests "may never steal, except from someone who stole from them or from a creature of chaos.". Is robbery still allowed? What if they take something from a dead person that has heirs? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 I presume "spoils of war" (or of combat) is allowed (if the Issaries isn't the aggressor): whoever attacked the Issaries merchant "stole" the peace and the merchant's other use of the magic, rune-points, etc. But "general" robbery I'd disallow. Genuine value-for-value trading and mercantilism is a sacred practice; robbery is the antithesis of that. YGMV 2 Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 36 minutes ago, g33k said: But "general" robbery I'd disallow. Genuine value-for-value trading and mercantilism is a sacred practice; robbery is the antithesis of that. The Issaries rune represents the principle of "Equal Exchange" (and is somewhat associated with the Harmony rune). That is opposed to the idea of "Unequal Exchange", i.e. theft. That's not to say an Issaries merchant won't bargain and haggle for the "best" or "most equal" exchange, in her view, but it's not theft or robbery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zozotroll Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 So what happens when priest is going around with a storm bully? If the storm bull picks the fight does Issaries not get any of the spoils? And is not like the rest of the Orlanthi are peace loving I have never had anybody play Issaries, so I have never had to think it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 The Issaries Priests I've seen have no need of the trivial booty that would eventuate from the Uroxi's irascibility... They're already stinking rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Raiding, of course, is very different from theft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zozotroll Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 True. Theft you take things that belong to others. with raiding not only do you do that, but you get to chop people up as well. Whats not to like? And I dont really see an Issaries Priest going on a raid. Now fencing the loot..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 13 hours ago, Zozotroll said: If the storm bull picks the fight does Issaries not get any of the spoils? He's got to be very careful. If the Issaries merchant starts to steal, or retain the spoils for himself, he/she is likely to be the victim of Issaries spirit of reprisal: Raw Greed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zozotroll Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Can he fence loot? It would seem so, he is buying it from its new owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Cooper Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Like a lot of things in life, I expect some people walk the line and risk punishment from the gods. I would assume under Orlanthi law that 'theft' means stealing from kin i.e. members of your clan and probably also extends to members of the same temple, guild etc. But once you get outside that group, things will get more blurry. If you are under an oath of hospitality then taking the guest or hosts things would be 'theft' as well. If you are in a city, and under the city peace that will imply theft too. But the clan you are raiding over the hill? The foreign Etyries merchant? Well the law doesn't apply to them, does it... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zozotroll Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 ot sure it would not extend to all Orlanthi. But filthy luners? I see your point on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, Zozotroll said: ot sure it would not extend to all Orlanthi. But filthy luners? I see your point on that. We know the Emerald Sword clan doesn't stay within the laws of Orlanth! Their raids killed our folk, and when we demanded wergild they refused. They caused the Ferry Feud, and the Dark Friends' Feud, massacred our folk at Tormakt's Farm, and caused the Silk-breeches Feud. They still owe us for all that! And our Issaries merchant will make sure they pay their due and the Scales of Justice are balanced. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Cooper Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, jajagappa said: We know the Emerald Sword clan doesn't stay within the laws of Orlanth! Their raids killed our folk, and when we demanded wergild they refused. They caused the Ferry Feud, and the Dark Friends' Feud, massacred our folk at Tormakt's Farm, and caused the Silk-breeches Feud. They still owe us for all that! And our Issaries merchant will make sure they pay their due and the Scales of Justice are balanced. Indeed 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zozotroll Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Point indeed. Makes you wonder if they are priests or lawyers though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Cooper Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 46 minutes ago, Zozotroll said: Point indeed. Makes you wonder if they are priests or lawyers though. Aren't all priests lawyers 😉 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 20 hours ago, Brootse said: In the River of Cradles book it's stated on the Issaries cult's description that his priests "may never steal, except from someone who stole from them or from a creature of chaos.". Is robbery still allowed? What if they take something from a dead person that has heirs? I would say that robbery was not allowed, as it is still stealing. If someone attacks an issaries Priest, then that person could be assumed to be trying to steal from the Priest, otherwise why would they be attacking? In that case, it is fine to take things from the attacker. However, instigating an attack on someone who isn't attacking you and has never taken anything from you is probably wrong. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 17 hours ago, Zozotroll said: So what happens when priest is going around with a storm bully? If the storm bull picks the fight does Issaries not get any of the spoils? And is not like the rest of the Orlanthi are peace loving I have never had anybody play Issaries, so I have never had to think it through. If the Storm Buller picks a fight and takes spoils then they are his/her possessions. If the Storm Buller then gifts them to the Issaries Priest, the Issaries Priest can accept them. However, if the Issaries Priest takes items from someone he has just ambushed, then that is stealing and is not allowed. 1 Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Zozotroll said: Can he fence loot? It would seem so, he is buying it from its new owner. Yes, fencing is perfectly fine, especially if the Issaries Priest "doesn't know" that it is stolen. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 1 hour ago, soltakss said: Yes, fencing is perfectly fine, especially if the Issaries Priest "doesn't know" that it is stolen. I don't see why knowing is a problem. Was "handling stolen goods" traditionally a crime in ancient societies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 2 hours ago, soltakss said: Yes, fencing is perfectly fine, especially if the Issaries Priest "doesn't know" that it is stolen. Goes to a Movement aspect - he's helping goods circulate through the world and there is still an exchange with whoever acquires them. Presumably there was also an exchange between whoever provided them to the Issaries merchant. The exchange does not necessarily need to be in something tangible - it could be a magical benefit such as a blessing or spell, or protection from harm, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 7 hours ago, Zozotroll said: with raiding not only do you do that, but you get to chop people up as well. Whats not to like? Raiding the neighbors of their cattle (and horses, sheep, etc.) is a respectable tradition. Killing is not, because it leads to blood feuds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zozotroll Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Plenty of those around already. Dont start new ones, just get revenge for the old ones 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zozotroll Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 5 hours ago, soltakss said: If the Storm Buller picks a fight and takes spoils then they are his/her possessions. If the Storm Buller then gifts them to the Issaries Priest, the Issaries Priest can accept them. However, if the Issaries Priest takes items from someone he has just ambushed, then that is stealing and is not allowed. I like how you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 (edited) On 8/24/2018 at 10:27 PM, Brootse said: In the River of Cradles book it's stated on the Issaries cult's description that his priests "may never steal, except from someone who stole from them or from a creature of chaos.". Is robbery still allowed? What if they take something from a dead person that has heirs? This is in the current draft of GoG as well: ""may never steal, except from someone who stole from them or from a creature of chaos." is still present under the restrictions of both types of priest. Edited August 26, 2018 by David Scott Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 (edited) On 8/25/2018 at 2:08 AM, Zozotroll said: So what happens when priest is going around with a storm bully? If the storm bull picks the fight does Issaries not get any of the spoils? And is not like the rest of the Orlanthi are peace loving I have never had anybody play Issaries, so I have never had to think it through. We have a hard core Issaries merchant on our group. He is always right up to edge in bargaining, verging on ripoff. We roleplay it all out, the most important factor in limiting him is his honour. The spoils of the dead are fine, it's not theft and Issaries can fight. Initiating a fight to steal goods is not on. With raising, he evaluates the results and gets his cut as part of the exchange but didn't steal the goods. I don't think this is bending the truth, this is a pragmatic approach. Our best example is Gringle's Pawnshop. 23 hours ago, Ian Cooper said: I would assume under Orlanthi law that 'theft' means stealing from kin i.e. members of your clan and probably also extends to members of the same temple, guild etc. But once you get outside that group, things will get more blurry. If you are under an oath of hospitality then taking the guest or hosts things would be 'theft' as well. If you are in a city, and under the city peace that will imply theft too. But the clan you are raiding over the hill? The foreign Etyries merchant? Well the law doesn't apply to them, does it... However "The most important benefit for Merchant Princes is primarily that which their neutrality will bring: a presumed friendship with all whom they meet, a chance to trade with anyone who comes along, and few automatic enemies." Edited August 26, 2018 by David Scott 2 Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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