what are the possible Humakt foe species?

[Pentallion]

The words foe and species both throw me off.  Humakt hates chaos.  Humakt dislikes other death cults.

Help.

EDIT:  I'm referring to the Humakt Gift #9:  Bless specific weapon to do double damage (once armor is penetrated) against a given foe species.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Pentallion

[Joerg]

Where does this phrase "foe species" come from?

And where exactly are we told that Humakt hates Chaos except where it creates undeath?

Orlanthi culture hates Chaos, which applies to Humakti from that culture, too, but that's about the extent of Humakt's hate. There is no specific reason why Humakt would hate Thed, Cacodemon or Primal Chaos, and Krarsht assassins may offend his sense of honor but in the end only spread death.

Thanatari heads, Bagogi rebirth rites and Vivamorti half-death are both chaotic and undead, which may cause the impression that Humakt hates them for being chaotic. Wakboth created Vivamort's state of Undeath and has thereby earned Humakt's (futile) enmity, and Ragnaglar returned as a living dead entity.

There are non-chaotic undead, and Humakt hates those, e.g. ZZ zombies.

 

[Pentallion]

Sorry, my bad for not being more clear.  The Gift #9:

Quote

  Bless specific weapon to do double damage (once armor is penetrated) against a given foe species.

Would Crimson Bat be a "foe species"?  Or Undead?  Undead aren't really a species.  Neither are just zombies.  Broos are a species, but are they a foe?

[jeffjerwin]

33 minutes ago, Pentallion said:

Would Crimson Bat be a "foe species"?  Or Undead?  Undead aren't really a species.  Neither are just zombies.  Broos are a species, but are they a foe?

I think this language in the rules is obviously causing confusion... 'Species' is just a 'particular class of thing'. I think 'zombie', 'animated skeleton', 'vampire', etc., is what the gift is really calling for. This is a hunch, but reading it as 'type of foe of Humakt' makes more sense.

It might even include other types of 'socially dead' people like the Alkothi Sevens.

 

Edit: Joerg and I seem to disagree. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by jeffjerwin

[Joerg]

Just now, Pentallion said:

Sorry, my bad for not being more clear.  The Gift #9:

Would Crimson Bat be a "foe species"?  Or Undead?  Undead aren't really a species.  Neither are just zombies.  Broos are a species, but are they a foe?

elf, dwarf, troll, human, duck (there may be reasons...) - basically any species you have a hate passion for. Double damage against humans would be common in Beast Valley after the 1613 duck hunts.

Chaos Creatures might be too broad, but broo, ogre, krarshtkid would work. I guess Cwim as a species of one would work, too, so sure, take Crimson Bat, and do 32-fold damage to its head. Split your attack, and keep going until your magic runs out. One of its cultists can undo all that work with a single Heal Body even if you manage to outpace its regeneration. The good news is, your player's character can do it all over again and again since it will be called back, so it is not a wasted one-time gift.

Provided he survives the first melee round after he manages to sting the critter, inviting its lick attack.

But ok, Humakti are quite good as guided weapons. Take a bunch of them with the same gifts, and drop them on the bat, and hope they aren't swept off before striking. This might force the mighty Bat to use Divine Intervention or some similar "but only player characters get to do this" ability. TPK with bragging rights "we brought the Crimson Bat to death's door."

Or alternatively "we rules-lawyered the Bat to death."

Just give the participating Humakti "never participate in an ambush" and "ride no animals" as some of their geases. Specific and unusual gifts may come with related geases, after all.

[PhilHibbs]

55 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Or alternatively "we rules-lawyered the Bat to death."

Easier to just say you killed it, and use a Lie spell to back it up. Say you did it three times for extra effect.

[Humakt]

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

elf, dwarf, troll, human, duck (there may be reasons...) - basically any species you have a hate passion for. Double damage against humans would be common in Beast Valley after the 1613 duck hunts.

Chaos Creatures might be too broad, but broo, ogre, krarshtkid would work. I guess Cwim as a species of one would work, too, so sure, take Crimson Bat, and do 32-fold damage to its head. Split your attack, and keep going until your magic runs out. One of its cultists can undo all that work with a single Heal Body even if you manage to outpace its regeneration. The good news is, your player's character can do it all over again and again since it will be called back, so it is not a wasted one-time gift.

Provided he survives the first melee round after he manages to sting the critter, inviting its lick attack.

But ok, Humakti are quite good as guided weapons. Take a bunch of them with the same gifts, and drop them on the bat, and hope they aren't swept off before striking. This might force the mighty Bat to use Divine Intervention or some similar "but only player characters get to do this" ability. TPK with bragging rights "we brought the Crimson Bat to death's door."

Or alternatively "we rules-lawyered the Bat to death."

Just give the participating Humakti "never participate in an ambush" and "ride no animals" as some of their geases. Specific and unusual gifts may come with related geases, after all.

Also it is possible get the rune spell strike from eurmal trough issaries with trade spell to ignore his armour so may be with luck his head gone completely?

[jajagappa]

9 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Bless specific weapon to do double damage (once armor is penetrated) against a given foe species.

Choose a species from the RQ Bestiary.  They are now your foe/enemy.  As @Joerg noted in regards to "elf, …", although given green elves are different species than brown elves or dark trolls from great trolls, you may need to choose one (or perhaps apply the blessing to all species of that kind).  Similarly with broo, scorpionmen, krarshtkids, etc. or specific monsters such as griffins, sky bulls, giant turtles, etc.

Undead (revenants, skeletons, zombies) can obviously come from differing species.  You could make a case that a blessing against a dark troll works fine on an undead dark troll - it's the right species, just not a living one.  Or you could decide to apply the blessing to that type of undead or all undead.  Since gift #10 is doing double damage to any foe, I wouldn't worry too much about the finer points here.

[simonh]

I agree with Joerg, Humakt is death to everyone. Therefore any species could be a foe species. What a Humakti in Boldhome considers a foe might be different from a Humakti in Ralios, or a Humakti in the Sazdorf clan of Trolls in Dagori Inkarth, or one of Ralzakark's Broo Humakti in Dorastor.

[soltakss]

Humakt hates Undead of any sort and is hostile to Zorak Zoran and trolls in general. So, I would say that any form of Undead or any type of Troll would be a Foe Species.

The Cult Compatibility Chart, when it comes out, will give an idea of Hostile and Enemy cults and typical members of those Cults could be regarded as Foe Species.

Personally, I would disregard the word Foe and just give the ability for any chosen Species, or type of person. So, I would allow Double Damage against Yanafal Tarnils cultists, for example.

[D]

Double damage against chaos would work as a more reliable sense chaos for orges and corrupt humans with hidden chaos features.

[Psullie]

any species or group that could conceivably be an enemy of the cult and particular Humakti, but this would likely be obvious to the GM and fit with the campaign 

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, D said:

Double damage against chaos would work as a more reliable sense chaos for orges and corrupt humans with hidden chaos features.

I'd say that was too broad. Ogre, Broo, Dragonsnail, each fine, but not all chaos.

[D]

Just now, PhilHibbs said:

I'd say that was too broad. Ogre, Broo, Dragonsnail, each fine, but not all chaos.

It depends on what gease is. Never suffer chaos to live.

[Groovetronic]

The only issue is that you have to stab someone with the weapon. Not that the Uroxi would mind - "That Humakt, he's alright!"

I'd even extend it to members of particular cults, or Oath Breakers, because this is Humakt we are talking. Humakt would not grant it versus most Storm Tribe cults (Orlanth is his chieftain) but certainly versus any other pantheon. Lunars, Solar Panthean, Magasta's Brood, Troll deities, Mostali - all fair game for the master of Death.

I'd even have weapons capable of being blessed to hit and destroy the MP of ghosts and other incorporeal undead. Sending the undead back to hell is Humakt's purview!

[Joerg]

39 minutes ago, Groovetronic said:

I'd even have weapons capable of being blessed to hit and destroy the MP of ghosts and other incorporeal undead.

Ghosts are hunky dory with the Humakti, and they even have a rite to create a Ghost from one of their deceased fellows. I can only conclude that ghosts don't count as undead.

Mechanic-wise, only creatures lacking the POW stat are undead in RQ terms. That does include un-corporeal entities like Wraiths, but not standard ghosts.

Ghoul spirits are tricky in this regard, though.