Reskinning Cults

[Grimmshade]

How many cults are there in Glorantha? Enough to justify reskinning a cult (or creating a new one) to fit what a player is looking for? (In this case a Necromantic cult)

[Tarumath]

Zorak Zoran in the Bestiary has necromancy spells.

[styopa]

43 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

How many cults are there in Glorantha? Enough to justify reskinning a cult (or creating a new one) to fit what a player is looking for? (In this case a Necromantic cult)

IMO do what suits you.  Some people feel obligated to stick with canon, but while RQ3's GoG more or less presented a multitudinous catalog of Gloranthan theism, it didn't even purport to represent every single local or regional cult.

In short, even if you did make a local necromantic cult, you'd STILL be within canon.

 

[Grimmshade]

6 minutes ago, Tarumath said:

Zorak Zoran in the Bestiary has necromancy spells.

The Zorak Zorn cult itself doesn't really suit what we are looking for (being a troll berzerker cult or something), but those spells are exactly what I was thinking of transferring to a new cult. Maybe a necromancy sect of an existing cult?

[Grimmshade]

1 minute ago, styopa said:

IMO do what suits you.  Some people feel obligated to stick with canon, but while RQ3's GoG more or less presented a multitudinous catalog of Gloranthan theism, it didn't even purport to represent every single local or regional cult.

In short, even if you did make a local necromantic cult, you'd STILL be within canon.

 

Thanks man, this is what I was looking for. From reading the material so far it felt like this was the way the world worked, but I'm too new to be sure.

I'm thinking maybe a necromantic cult that is an aspect/relative of the fertility cult existing in the Necropolis.

[Zozotroll]

You have probably seen YGMV.  What that means is your glorantha may vary.  It should be YGWV, your Glorantha will vary.  It is a wild weird, big world with space for lots of stuff.  Have fun with it.  Enjoy what you understand and over time you will learn more. Some day, if your players like the setting and the system well enough, you may decide to try a canon game.  But dont sweat it until you learn a lot more.  Some of us have been playing 40 years and dont know it all.  How could anybody expect a brand new group to know everything?  

 

The #1 most important thing, have fun with your friends

[Austin]

51 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

I'm thinking maybe a necromantic cult that is an aspect/relative of the fertility cult existing in the Necropolis.

That's a cool idea. If you're looking for brainstorming suggestions, maybe something mixing Maran Gor with the ZZ necromancy spells? (Maran Gor's the goddess of like violent earthquakes and whatnot usually)

[goldenwheeldancer]

You might be able to filch a bit of inspiration from the Vivamort cult too.

[Grimmshade]

30 minutes ago, Crel said:

That's a cool idea. If you're looking for brainstorming suggestions, maybe something mixing Maran Gor with the ZZ necromancy spells? (Maran Gor's the goddess of like violent earthquakes and whatnot usually)

That sounds really cool!

I was already thinking of a side cult of Bhabeester Ghor.

[PhilHibbs]

We had a Malkioni in my 2nd Age MRQ2 game whose motto was "Re-use, recycle, reanimate". She wanted to start Zombie Fight Club but never got around to it.

[soltakss]

5 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

How many cults are there in Glorantha? 

Lots and lots and lots. Hundreds, probably thousands or tens of thousands if you count Subcults/Hero Cults/Spirit Cults.

 

5 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

Enough to justify reskinning a cult (or creating a new one) to fit what a player is looking for? (In this case a Necromantic cult)

Definitely.

What kind of necromantic cult are you looking for?

Zorak Zoran, as has been mentioned, raises zombies, skeletons, mummies and wraiths.

Vivamort is connected with vampires, but also raises ghouls, zombies and skeletons, I think.

Gark the Calm makes zombies.

Subere controls wraiths, ghouls and ghosts.

The Spolites seem to have used undead.

Cacodemon used to create undead, but that might have changed.

 

What I would do is to describe what kind of stuff you want, then see if there is a Gloranthan equivalent,. If there isn't, then make them up.

Here's a secret - All the Gloranthan cults are made up!

 

[soltakss]

5 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

I'm thinking maybe a necromantic cult that is an aspect/relative of the fertility cult existing in the Necropolis.

The Necropolis is a good example. There is bound to be a cult who creates zombies and skeletons as guardians of the Necropolis. They aren't undead abominations, instead they are good cultists who serve after death. Maybe Maran Gor might be a source of these, or Ty Kora Tek. I know thay Ty Kora Tek is the goddess of the dead and normally doesn't like undead, but I can see a subcult of hers acting as guardians of the Necropolis. After all, if that is a taboo place for the living, only the dead can guard it.

[Grimmshade]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

The Necropolis is a good example. There is bound to be a cult who creates zombies and skeletons as guardians of the Necropolis. They aren't undead abominations, instead they are good cultists who serve after death. Maybe Maran Gor might be a source of these, or Ty Kora Tek. I know thay Ty Kora Tek is the goddess of the dead and normally doesn't like undead, but I can see a subcult of hers acting as guardians of the Necropolis. After all, if that is a taboo place for the living, only the dead can guard it.

Since Ty Kora Tek doesn't seem to appear in the rules yet, I'll probably make a sub-cult of Maran Gor.

There aren't any guidelines for cults, and they don't seem to have similar "points" spent in each area, so I'll probably just use a combination of Zorak and Maran. 

[womble]

31 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

There aren't any guidelines for cults, and they don't seem to have similar "points" spent in each area, so I'll probably just use a combination of Zorak and Maran. 

I'd caution restraint, possibly great restraint on combining two relatively punchy Gods like that into what 'ought' (to retain consistency with the rest of the setting) be a relatively minor Cult. One theme in the design of Cults is that bigger, more important Cults tend to have more selections of Rune Magic, and more chances of getting good opportunities to get Rune Points back. 'Specialist' Cults tend to have a narrower menu of Special magics (hence their label as specialist), and fewer temples and other support structures, especially outside their home territory.

Naturally, it's your Glorantha, so go as crazy as you like, but bear in mind that changes in Divine ecosystems can have far-reaching effects (which could set up very interesting scenarios, or leave the players scratching their heads wondering why this tiny little subcult doesn't have greater penetration into History...)

[styopa]

Here's something I did that converted many of the World of Warcraft Death Knight abilities to RQ format;  I'd later used them in a scenario where Delecti had sent 3 Knights to seek out the PCs, giving each one a set of either blood, ice, or plague abilities.  (I'd think if you started letting them have more than one it could be really overpowered.) 

It was fun.  A lot to keep track of as a DM, but for a player it's probably fun to have a lot to keep track of.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B018uRj3WEzodzNOXzQwRGRpV1k

(Actually there are both WoW Druid and WoW DK abilities there.)

[Grimmshade]

2 hours ago, styopa said:

Here's something I did that converted many of the World of Warcraft Death Knight abilities to RQ format;  I'd later used them in a scenario where Delecti had sent 3 Knights to seek out the PCs, giving each one a set of either blood, ice, or plague abilities.  (I'd think if you started letting them have more than one it could be really overpowered.) 

It was fun.  A lot to keep track of as a DM, but for a player it's probably fun to have a lot to keep track of.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B018uRj3WEzodzNOXzQwRGRpV1k

(Actually there are both WoW Druid and WoW DK abilities there.)

That's a ton of cool abilities! Thanks.

[Zozotroll]

4 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

That's a ton of cool abilities! Thanks.

One thing to remember is there is no sense of balance, no everything is equal in RQ.  So you can jack up anything you want.  But, on the other hand, not everybody liks to play where others are much more cool than them.  And there is no cool meter to check things against.  So be sure to check what everybody thinks before you turn them all loose.  Now you may be a very experienced GM from other games and know all of this, so sorry if I am telling you what you already know.  But RQ is a place you can make overpowered PCs if you dont pay some attention.  Been there, done that.  And if you want to play high power, go for it, done that to.  Just be sure everybody can handle the same sort of thing.  Also have doine that where I did not keep everybody able to handle the same sort of game and rerolled a lot of PCs.

[simonh]

Necromancy is problematic because RQ/Glorantha doesn't tent to gloss over cultural and religious objections to it that many RPGs do. Where do you get the corpses, who's relatives or ancestors are they and what do they think about all this? In many fantasy RPGs that's abstracted away, but in Glorantha that's the sort of thing that tends to get grabbed hold of an turned into a source of drama and conflict.

[Grimmshade]

2 hours ago, Zozotroll said:

One thing to remember is there is no sense of balance, no everything is equal in RQ.  So you can jack up anything you want.  But, on the other hand, not everybody liks to play where others are much more cool than them.  And there is no cool meter to check things against.  So be sure to check what everybody thinks before you turn them all loose.  Now you may be a very experienced GM from other games and know all of this, so sorry if I am telling you what you already know.  But RQ is a place you can make overpowered PCs if you dont pay some attention.  Been there, done that.  And if you want to play high power, go for it, done that to.  Just be sure everybody can handle the same sort of thing.  Also have doine that where I did not keep everybody able to handle the same sort of game and rerolled a lot of PCs.

I've run a LOT of games, but I still totally appreciate the advice because each game is very different. Some you can make your own stuff or tweak the PC's and it doesn't matter, some ruin the entire mechanics if you mess with them.

[Grimmshade]

53 minutes ago, simonh said:

Necromancy is problematic because RQ/Glorantha doesn't tent to gloss over cultural and religious objections to it that many RPGs do. Where do you get the corpses, who's relatives or ancestors are they and what do they think about all this? In many fantasy RPGs that's abstracted away, but in Glorantha that's the sort of thing that tends to get grabbed hold of an turned into a source of drama and conflict.

These are great points, and answer the question my wife and I were discussing just yesterday as to why Necromancy seems mostly absent in the Core rules.

It will be fun to explore those things in game.

[Zozotroll]

Most human cultures see necromancy view necromacy as evil.  Trolls do to most likely, but nobody sane and still living wants to tell the Zorak Zoran lunatics what to do.   If you play een sort of close t canon, getting bodies is going to be a real problem.

 

Humakti in every group I have ever played with is seen as humorlesss, stick up the butt Puritan debbiedowners.  Yet I had a guy play one, ad his real wife played an initiate of Uleria, who are holy prostitutes.  Not what you think was a good party, but the role playing was outstanding.  So having a problem being a necro is not the same as it being unplayable.

[soltakss]

Our RQ2/3 high level campaign involved mobing to Dorastor, so the PCs built a Battle Wagon, to mitigate chaos attacks. Because it was big and heavy, they needed something to pull it, so the Zorak Zorani Death Lord hitched 4 Bison to the wagon, as Bison are strong, for protection, he covered them in barding, all over. They were good Bison, as they just trundled along, never seeming to tire, never needing a rest and they were very strong, so could pull a heavily laden wagon. The Humakti thought something was wrong when they pulled the wagon through a river and were submerged for several minutes before reappearing on the other side. He did the normal checks and realised they weren't breathing. Enraged, he cut down the 4 Zombie Bison, slicing their heads clean off. Then they realised they were in the middle of Dorastor, on foot, with a heavily laden Battle Wagon that they couldn't pull ...

[Grimmshade]

10 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Our RQ2/3 high level campaign involved mobing to Dorastor, so the PCs built a Battle Wagon, to mitigate chaos attacks. Because it was big and heavy, they needed something to pull it, so the Zorak Zorani Death Lord hitched 4 Bison to the wagon, as Bison are strong, for protection, he covered them in barding, all over. They were good Bison, as they just trundled along, never seeming to tire, never needing a rest and they were very strong, so could pull a heavily laden wagon. The Humakti thought something was wrong when they pulled the wagon through a river and were submerged for several minutes before reappearing on the other side. He did the normal checks and realised they weren't breathing. Enraged, he cut down the 4 Zombie Bison, slicing their heads clean off. Then they realised they were in the middle of Dorastor, on foot, with a heavily laden Battle Wagon that they couldn't pull ...

Sometimes I worry that I made a mistake with my RQG purchase, because of my complete lack of knowledge of the setting, but posts like this make me glad I did. I was looking for something different than D&D type fantasy, and this seems to be it.

[Zozotroll]

34 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Our RQ2/3 high level campaign involved mobing to Dorastor, so the PCs built a Battle Wagon, to mitigate chaos attacks. Because it was big and heavy, they needed something to pull it, so the Zorak Zorani Death Lord hitched 4 Bison to the wagon, as Bison are strong, for protection, he covered them in barding, all over. They were good Bison, as they just trundled along, never seeming to tire, never needing a rest and they were very strong, so could pull a heavily laden wagon. The Humakti thought something was wrong when they pulled the wagon through a river and were submerged for several minutes before reappearing on the other side. He did the normal checks and realised they weren't breathing. Enraged, he cut down the 4 Zombie Bison, slicing their heads clean off. Then they realised they were in the middle of Dorastor, on foot, with a heavily laden Battle Wagon that they couldn't pull ...

Typical chuckleboy. Get all righteously indignant act impulsively, and totally screw things up.

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

These are great points, and answer the question my wife and I were discussing just yesterday as to why Necromancy seems mostly absent in the Core rules.

It will be fun to explore those things in game.

One way to play this, if you don't want the Necromancer figure to be "evil", is to use Ty Kora Tek, the dark earth deity who is the Keeper of the Dead (and ruler over the Necropoli, particularly in Esrolia).  She knows the ways to Prepare Corpses and how to Speak to the Dead, and how to Free or Bind Ghosts.  In the Esrolian lands, once per year (a Day of the Dead), the dead ancestors come out of the Necropoli and go along the Sacred Way to the cities to visit their relatives.

Unlike Zorak Zoran undead, the skeletons or mummies of Ty Kora Tek would still have their soul, but would be bound by the ways of Ty Kora Tek to never speak (except on the Day of the Dead).  Potentially a priestess of Ty Kora Tek might have a reason or mission on which to send one of the dead (perhaps as a guide or guardian to some living being, most likely an Earth priestess).  Ty Kora Tek does not like "undead" though - the soulless constructs of Zorak Zoran or evil sorcerers or chaos.

Although there is no writeup yet for Ty Kora Tek, you could use the following (which is a bit of a blend of Daka Fal, Humakt, the noted subcult spell for Ty Kora Tek, and Zorak Zoran):

Runes: Earth, Darkness, Death

Cult Skills: Cult Lore (Ty Kora Tek), Prepare Corpse, Speak (Spiritspeech), Spirit Combat, Spirit Lore, Worship (Ty Kora Tek)

Spirit Magic: Detect Spirit, Detect Undead, Dispel Magic, Silence, Spirit Screen

Common Rune Magic: All.
Special Rune Magic: Absorption, Bind Ghost, Bless Grave, Create Revenant, Free Ghost, Summon Ancestor, Summon Specific Ancestor.  

[Whether you want to include Create Revenant or not would be up to you.  Probably would not be a standard TKT rune magic, but if you want to emphasize Necromancy, then include it.  Instead of binding a ZZ cultist, it would bind an Earth Priestess to her mortal form.  That could of course be a dead Babeester Gor Axe Maiden, which might be quite scary.]