Orlanth pet in Umathela

[Manu]

In Dragon Pass, Shadow cats are very common amongst Orlanthi tribes.

But what about Umathelan Orlanthi? Shadow pigs ;)?

[Julian Lord]

According to one website, they have dogs (supposedly similar to the RW Catahoula Leopard Dog)

[Joerg]

Possibly mungos, meerkats, or similar? No idea about the native lizards and snakes of Umathela, but they might be less friendly and more venomous than those of Genertela.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, Manu said:

In Dragon Pass, Shadow cats are very common amongst Orlanthi tribes.

But what about Umathelan Orlanthi? Shadow pigs ;)?

Pigs are highly intelligent, and while adult males aren't necessarily very sociable, they're at least more easy to train that RW cats of any stripe, so honestly I think that sounds like a cool idea. I guess it might conflict with using pigs as general livestock though, unless we're talking noticeably different breeds.

I like the idea of mongooses too. Not too useful for herding, but some story about each household having a pet mongoose to keep out venomous animals sounds interesting. Maybe they blended with an indigenous mongoose Hsunchen people at some point during the settlement. Pure speculation, of course, but fun.

[g33k]

4 hours ago, Manu said:

In Dragon Pass, Shadow cats are very common amongst Orlanthi tribes.

But what about Umathelan Orlanthi? Shadow pigs ;)?

It's worth noting that shadow cats are more than mere pets... because Yinkin is Orlanth's brother.

I would't go with "shadowanimal" for any other species, unless I had some myth about an interaction with Yinkin.

I like the idea of mongoose for the venomous-snake problem.  I could even see Mythologizing that, with Yinkin being unable to overcome some poisonous Hydra or Wyrm or some such... Mongoose helps Yinkin so then Yinkin rewards Mongoose, and then etc etc etc...

YGMV

 

[Manu]

I like the mongoose too. And in Umathela, the Myth may vary, as Yinkin is the half-brother of Orlanth (from Kero Fin). As the moutain here is not Kero Fin, the Half-Brother could be Mongoose (and save the same purpose as Yinkin serves in Dragon Pass)

[Sir_Godspeed]

But shadow cats fulfill more tasks than hunting vermin, right? I was of the impression that they use them in every niche dogs are used, so guard cats, sheep herding cats, hunting parties, etc. Those aren't really niches that can be filled by a mongoose (mostly because they're pretty small). So you either keep the shadowcats in some aspects, or you substitute them with some other animal, like the dogs or swine mentioned above.

[Manu]

I have no idea if a shadow cat exists on Real Earth. But if it is a fantasy animal created, the we could do the same with a mongoose? The House Mongoose? The thunder Mongoose?

And it could fulfill all the needed tasks, ans also the venimous animals hunting (to protect the home of the Orlanthi)

Anyway, I like the idea...

[Sir_Godspeed]

I'm just saying that they seemingly scaled up the lynx to be able to do a dog's job, but scaling up a mongoose to do that would also make it less efficient at taking out snakes, because being small and long-ish is a good shape for that sort of duty. It's what allows a lot of mustelids (like ferrets, stoats, etc.) to live in piles of rocks and weed out predatory snakes that are after their young as well.

YGWW.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, that if anyone wants a massive mongoose, there is there Ichneumon, from medieval European bestiaries. Basically a souped up version that goes after dragons and crocodiles rather than ordinary serpents.

Could be interesting to have it as a kind of mongoose demigod or Hscunchen spirit, that hangs out in the waterways of far western Pamaltela, maybe.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Sir_Godspeed

[PhilHibbs]

52 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I'm just saying that they seemingly scaled up the lynx to be able to do a dog's job, but scaling up a mongoose to do that would also make it less efficient at taking out snakes, because being small and long-ish is a good shape for that sort of duty.

I don't see the need to impose such realism on a world where winged humanoids can fly, and giant insects can breathe. It can defeat snakes and scorpions because of what Mongoose did in the God Time.

[Sir_Godspeed]

It's not really about realism, but verisimillitude. Most people don't understand the principles behind wing-areal and lift vs. mass, and few also understand the biological principles behind spiracles and osmosis. And even if you know, it's pretty easy to just ignore.

Most people can kinda see the image of a schäfer-sized stoat-like animal trying to squeeze through a gap in some joinery to get at a small, poisonous snake slithering away, though, and find it jarring. Or conversely, a little ferret-thing running around a herd of 30+ sheep and guiding them. I assume that's why Greg didn't go with a housecat-sized alynx, or even a lynx-sized one.

I mean, we're just spitballing here, so anything goes, just putting my own logic out there.

[PhilHibbs]

17 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

It's not really about realism, but verisimillitude... Most people can kinda see the image of a schäfer-sized stoat-like animal trying to squeeze through a gap in some joinery to get at a small, poisonous snake slithering away, though, and find it jarring.

Maybe giant mongoose hunts giant snakes and scorpions.

Humongoose?

Now I want a giant mongoose pet and call it "Hugh".

Edited November 5, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[Brootse]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Maybe giant mongoose hunts giant snakes and scorpions.

Humongoose?

Now I want a giant mongoose pet and call it "Hugh".

How about Shadowgoose?

[Julian Lord]

21 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I assume that's why Greg didn't go with a housecat-sized alynx, or even a lynx-sized one.

IIRC, alynxes are about the same size range as the Eurasian lynx. The Eurasian lynx is about wolf-size.

The Iberian and American* lynxes are smaller than as the alynx is described in the literature, and the bobcat and the Canadian lynx are even smaller, but for all I know, there might be some local alynx species in Genertela that are also that small ... though not the alynxes found in Sartar.

(*) When I say "American lynx", I'm referring mostly to the fact that southerly habitat Canadian lynxes within heartland USA tend to be bigger than their Northern cousins. Took me a **while** to remember why I was referring to them as if separate from the Canadian !!!

Edited November 6, 2018 by Julian Lord

[Sir_Godspeed]

5 minutes ago, Julian Lord said:

IIRC, alynxes are about the same size as the Eurasian lynx and the American bobcat (which is a lynx under another name).

The Iberian and American lynxes are smaller than as the alynx is described in the literature, but for all I know, there might be some local alynx species in Genertela that are also that small ...

You're right, I underestimated the size of the Eurasian lynx (which is weird, since I've seen quite a few of them at a local zoo). They are indeed quite hefty, being comparable to a German shepherd at the shoulders.

[womble]

On 11/4/2018 at 11:49 AM, Julian Lord said:

According to one website, they have dogs (supposedly similar to the RW Catahoula Leopard Dog)

That seems counter to their Miffic History, with the disagreements with the Bad Dog. Or is that just Heortling Orlanthi? So:

Assuming they'd rather have a domesticated working animal/companion that's feline rather than canine, aren't there any other 'largish' cat species in the area that could stand in for Yinkin? Cheetah were used by the Pharoahs of Egypt as hunting beasts (apparently, their wild existence is precarious enough that they'll relatively readily 'come indoors' for a regular supply of food and safety from the other big predators of the savannah...) though they weren't 'properly' domesticated. Video of the practice descended into modern times in this link: https://theglyptodon.wordpress.com/2012/02/25/hunting-with-cheetahs/

Or they could have dogs, but I know Shadow Panther or Shadow Jaguar are cooler. As is Shadow Cheetah...

 

[Jeff]

Orlanth is NEVER associated with a mongoose in my Glorantha.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Jeff said:

Orlanth is NEVER associated with a mongoose in my Glorantha.

Well, that's just what you get when us forum-boggles are left to run around without someone to herd us in the right direction! What animal(s) DO the Umathelan Orlanthi use to herd and/or hunt?

And, "I don't know, I never thought about it before, but NOT A MONGOOSE" is an entirely acceptable answer.

Edited November 7, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[scott-martin]

"Orlanth never lost as much time as when he submitted to learn from Mongoose." Ahem. 

It would be cool to have even bigger hunting cats, panthers and such, making bonds with local stepbrothers. Some could be sabertooth like, which would give Pelorians the kind of nightmares we like.

This might also be where "dog Orlanthi" were shipped en masse so if they survive anywhere (except ritual enclaves in places like Imther) this is where they are.

I like pig brothers but probably at least a tribe or two would ride them instead of hunting side by side.

[PhilHibbs]

1 minute ago, scott-martin said:

I like pig brothers but probably at least a tribe or two would ride them instead of hunting side by side.

Which would lead to some hilarious misidentifications.

"They're charging down the hillside, mounted on huge pigs..."

"Aaaa, Tusk Riders!"

[Manu]

The more I read this post and think a bit, the more I like the idea of a shadow Caracal, Shadow Panther or something similar. There are plenty of cats all over Glorantha. Shadow cats are linked to Dragon pass. But I"m sure we can find a similar myth in Umathela with other type of cat

But I like the idea of the mongoose. But more a 'pet' of the god of the house, protecting the house and children against dangerous animals.

Or simply trained animal.