Corrupting Magic.

[Aprewett]

Thought to ask here as it may circumvent some time, so ask the experts.

If you had a setting that its magic system, generates corruption in the caster/user, how would you do that in HQ. I have HQG and 2. This corruption occurs all the time not just with a failure. 

The corruption could be minor and fades over time or major and lingers longer.

If it eventually overpowers the user they start mutating. Stigmas.

The setting seems to assume the corruption is evil or something, but its a bit unclear. I dont care to stick to that my gut feel is to make it more like radiation poisoning, but magical.

Thanks.

[David Scott]

Give it a name and the standard starting value of 13, It could be listed as a flaw. It can be bought off with experience to reduce it or at the GMs whim. Eg.

Corruption 13

--

Alternatively breakout the corruption from the magic keyword, so that the corruption increases as magical power does as well as with it's own bonus. This is harder traduce as is linked directly to the magic.

Magic 1M

            corruption +1

--

To avoid mutating roll every (time interval) perhaps season and fail.

For increasing it, decide on the mechanism, add point every, use, and/or time interval. 

[Oracle]

Yes, creating a flaw would be exactly the approach, that I would use. Every time the respective magic is used, you have to overcome the flaw. If this fails, the value of the flaw raises. Only in case of a critical success it would go down. A critical failure could lead to some extraordinary behaviour or result, maybe temporary only.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Oracle

[JonL]

Check out these expanded Flaw options I posted last year. A couple of them could help model this sort of thing.

[Andy Evans]

9 hours ago, Aprewett said:

Thought to ask here as it may circumvent some time, so ask the experts.

If you had a setting that its magic system, generates corruption in the caster/user, how would you do that in HQ. I have HQG and 2. This corruption occurs all the time not just with a failure. 

The corruption could be minor and fades over time or major and lingers longer.

If it eventually overpowers the user they start mutating. Stigmas.

The setting seems to assume the corruption is evil or something, but its a bit unclear. I dont care to stick to that my gut feel is to make it more like radiation poisoning, but magical.

Thanks.

That setting sounds exactly like Symbaroum....

[Aprewett]

Yes, dont mind the setting but over fighting the system. So many problems for our group.

[Aprewett]

Thanks all, gaming tonight so I will take your comments to the table.

[Andy Evans]

19 hours ago, Aprewett said:

Yes, dont mind the setting but over fighting the system. So many problems for our group.

I felt exactly the same way about the system.  Would love to hear how you get on playing the setting using HeroQuest.

[Aprewett]

We are a one on one group, so we converted one of his 3 characters across, worked really well. I need to find a solution to the experience system. I was following a thread about it with many good house rule suggestions but cant remember them all.

[soltakss]

I'd do what David said and have a Corruption breakout for every corrupting magic Ability, increasing it with every corruption. How it affects the PC depends on what effects you want it to have in the game.

[Aprewett]

Thanks. How does it increase? Is that a mechanic in the Flaw system? Sorry very new to HQ, with only a one session one off played a year ago and then we shelved it as I tried to digest Glorantha and felt I had to digest Runequest and whilted.

Maybe if I could be so bold; a working example of a creeping corruption from every spell cast. That eventually overwhelms and turn you into a abomination. My player loves playing spell casters and I need to get over this speed bump as fast as possible, incidentally one of the reasons I felt I had to play Glorantha with RQ first to understand the magic imbedded in the setting.

Symbaroum runs with two types of corruption; a temporary and permanent. I don’t really need to mirror that if it’s too difficult. There is a threshold which when reached brings in stigmas and when the total resilience is reached you are doomed. Just to inform on the mechanics a little.

Just so releaved to ditch the system and hope this can work.

[soltakss]

6 hours ago, Aprewett said:

Thanks. How does it increase? Is that a mechanic in the Flaw system? Sorry very new to HQ, with only a one session one off played a year ago and then we shelved it as I tried to digest Glorantha and felt I had to digest Runequest and whilted.

As Corruption increases the more you use the magic, I would give it a +1 every time the magic is used.

It may well be that you can spin it off into a new skill, especially if the Corruption is going to outweigh the original skill. So, having Magic 10M (Corruption +40) means that Corruption effectively has Corruption 20M.

Having said that, this is outside the rules as they are, so needs a ruling from the GM/Narrator.

 

6 hours ago, Aprewett said:

Maybe if I could be so bold; a working example of a creeping corruption from every spell cast. That eventually overwhelms and turn you into a abomination. My player loves playing spell casters and I need to get over this speed bump as fast as possible, incidentally one of the reasons I felt I had to play Glorantha with RQ first to understand the magic imbedded in the setting.

 

Yes, that matches with the adding +1 to Corruption each time you cast it. It may well be that you engage in an Opossed Contest between Corruption and Magic to see if the Magician becomes corrupted. The effects would differ between a Marginal Defeat and a Complete Defeat and that would be Narrated.

 

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by soltakss

[KingofElfland]

Sorry, I’m new to HQ too, but, depending on how quickly in the setting corruption mounts up, couldn’t you just have a corruption flaw start out at 6 and advance it once every time your magic is used? Maybe advance it 3 or 6 on certain levels of failure. That way the flaw starts off fairly easy to resist, but still mounts up for a character that does make use of magic frequently. 

But, as I said, I’m not experienced with the way the game flows as yet. 

[Oracle]

I wouldn't raise the value of the corruption flaw every time the magic is used. Instead I would use the following approach:

• after the character has developed the corruption flaw he could try to overcome the flaw every time he uses the magic in question.
• if he fails, the corruption flaw would be raised. The amount of the raise would be determined by the GM, but should be based on the  Degree of Failure (e.g. +1 for Marginal or Minor Defeat, +2 for Major Defeat, +3 for Complete Defeat).
• in case of a success nothing happens. The GM could even allow, that the corruption flaw is lowered, e.g. -1 in case of a Complete Victory.

The GM can control the outcome of this situation to a certain degree, because he determines the Difficulty Level. Another approach could be using the opposed Corruption/Magic roll @soltakss described already above instead of overcoming the corruption.

[soltakss]

There are lots of ways to do this.

I'd just pick one that fits with how you want it to work and go with that.

For me, HeroQuest is not about the mechanics. The mechanics are a quick and easy way of achieving a result. In my opinion, anyone who agonises over detailed mechanics in HeroQuest is missing the point of the game.

[SDLeary]

Why not have them "check" corruption when the offending magic is used. At the end of the session, adventure, campaign, your choice of interval, they roll to see if the corruption increases; if they MAKE the roll, it increases, if the FAIL the roll it doesn't increase. This would mean that there would still be a chance that they could potentially avoid additional corruption, but would also increase the likely-hood of falling down the rabbit hole the more corrupt they become. 

Because likely-hood of corruption would increase as usage progressed, I would also start it at a lower value, say 10.

SDLeary

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by SDLeary

[Atgxtg]

25 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

Why not have them "check" corruption when the offending magic is used. At the end of the session, adventure, campaign, your choice of interval, they roll to see if the corruption increases; if they MAKE the roll, it increases, if the FAIL the roll it doesn't increase. This would mean that there would still be a chance that they could potentially avoid additional corruption, but would also increase the likely-hood of falling down the rabbit hole the more corrupt they become. 

Because likely-hood of corruption would increase as usage progressed, I would also start it at a lower value, say 10.

SDLeary

 

The major pitfall of that is once a character has a checkmark he is free to use a much corrupting magic as he wants for the duration of the session, adventure, campaign, your choice of interval. I think you would need to:

1. Apply a modifier to the corruption roll based of frequency of use (something like +1 per additional use)
2. Adjust the amount of the increase according to frequency of use, so that once increase is "automatic" the penalties still increase (something like 1/10th the bonus)

[SDLeary]

4 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

The major pitfall of that is once a character has a checkmark he is free to use a much corrupting magic as he wants for the duration of the session, adventure, campaign, your choice of interval. I think you would need to:

1. Apply a modifier to the corruption roll based of frequency of use (something like +1 per additional use)
2. Adjust the amount of the increase according to frequency of use, so that once increase is "automatic" the penalties still increase (something like 1/10th the bonus)

It really depends upon how quickly you want to have corruption occur, and how much you want to potentially suppress the use of magic. 

Both those options are viable. In my idea above, you could also say that the corruption score increases by 2 if the corruption roll is a critical.

SDLeary

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, SDLeary said:

It really depends upon how quickly you want to have corruption occur, and how much you want to potentially suppress the use of magic. 

Somewhat. But the problem is that once someone got a check they would be free to use as much magic as they wanted until it was time to roll for "improvement". That seems to go against the spirit of the idea. 

 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Atgxtg

[vonpaulus]

I don't like the fact that corruption makes the use of magic more difficult. It seem like use radiative weapons and it don't match my feelings. In my opinion the use of the magic will be difficult as always or better easier in order to induce the magician to use magic more and more. And the corruption would change the magician in term of appearance and ethical value or in term of madness.

 

[Atgxtg]

2 hours ago, vonpaulus said:

I don't like the fact that corruption makes the use of magic more difficult. It seem like use radiative weapons and it don't match my feelings. In my opinion the use of the magic will be difficult as always or better easier in order to induce the magician to use magic more and more. And the corruption would change the magician in term of appearance and ethical value or in term of madness.

 

Sounds like on the Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series, where it was treated as a type of addiction.

[Aprewett]

Thanks everyone,  gaming tomorrow,  when we will port over the other 2 characters and work out the corruption. Looking forward to using HQ and keen to see the new version.

[Aprewett]

Thanks for all the help, we brainstormed a possible system for the corruption and just need to see how it works.

My follow up question is about flaws. 

Is the value as suggested on page 47, after char gen and all points have been spent?

All contests in HQ are rolled against a difficulty/resistance,  so what ability do you use if there is no obvious one. Compulsive for example or blindness? There are no attributes to roll against. 

I really wish the HQ book line had more examples throughout,  its a real turnoff having to interpret even what sound like basic rules. Please please please put more in the srd.

Ps; one of our characters has something similar to compulsive as a flaw.

[vonpaulus]

As per HQ2 p14.

The flaw is a resistance against an action of the character to be overcome to proceed with the intended action or a modifier (value/5)  at an action.

In the first case you, the character,  must have an ability to roll and the flaw is the resistance. if you don't have any ability try to stretch some ability or keyword, if not roll with a standard level of 6. In the latter case, that means that you are prone to the flaw.

This would d be annoying in the game so as Gamemaster you can suggest to the player to take some ability as "strong-willed" or similar.

In the second case you simply subtract the 0.2 x flaw from the ability you roll meaning that the flaw is hindering you so reducing the skill value.

Some example:

if you have the flaw gluttony, any roll that requires attention in a place with delicious smells will be hindered by the loss of concentration. 

If you have gluttony and some Spymaster will offer you a very rare bottle of wine for its own purpose you must overcome the flaw in order to refuse. In that case, you must use a suitable ability depending on the story. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2019 by vonpaulus

[Andy Evans]

15 hours ago, Aprewett said:

Thanks for all the help, we brainstormed a possible system for the corruption and just need to see how it works.

My follow up question is about flaws. 

Is the value as suggested on page 47, after char gen and all points have been spent?

All contests in HQ are rolled against a difficulty/resistance,  so what ability do you use if there is no obvious one. Compulsive for example or blindness? There are no attributes to roll against. 

I really wish the HQ book line had more examples throughout,  its a real turnoff having to interpret even what sound like basic rules. Please please please put more in the srd.

Ps; one of our characters has something similar to compulsive as a flaw.

Regarding suggested values, yes that is after chargen and points have been spent (AFAIK), but there's no reason you can't just call it 13 to start off with, and have it rise over time with failure as @Oracle suggests above. 

Regards what ability you use that's entirely up to you and character dependent.  If you take your example of Compulsive, the GM would try to roll equal or under to that flaws value and you would roll appropriate to overcome it, e.g. if you're trying to resist doing something you could use your discipline as a 'Warrior Prist of ....'  - anything you can up with that's narratively appropriate. 

In regards to overcoming the Corruption flaw, the character could perhaps use his magic ability - masters of the art are more likely to understand the risks and mitigate them perhaps? Or some other ability that suggests mental  fortitude.