Cost of healing potions in New Pavis.

[Noita]

Okay i want to know how much a healing potion would cost. A 2pt, 3pt up to a 6pt. Doesnt matter who from.

What I want to avoid is a big discussion about the whys and the cant's and how it is not possible to buy them on clayday without wearing a tutu.

This is for old school RQ2 set in New Pavis.

 

Bound to cost a fair bit yes? I could come up with number myself but Im nackered after work and have been measuring stuff all day. Numbers arrrrgh.

Thanks very much.

[EpicureanDM]

Semi-related, I'd be keen to know how healing potions are made in Glorantha. Does someone dump a 4-point spirit magic spell into a special flask?

[7Tigers]

I say seller should offer a big discount for the party providing needed rare components available only in the Big Rubble Garden part!

[Joerg]

RQ2 prices are in the table on p.48. Selling price is 200 L per point of healing.

Potion cost is ten times ingredient cost, potion potency is limited by your knowledge and your training in making the potion. If you want to make them yourself as associate member of the guild, you need to sell  about 30/potion strength plus 12 potions to break even (paying for training cost and guild association), compared to buying them from some alchemist. If you decide to learn a stronger version, it's 12 sold potions again.

As with casting Battle Magic, you should be able to make a weaker potion than your training would allow you to produce.

[D]

I think they are free to any cheeky young Raven who asks nicely

[Noita]

1 hour ago, D said:

I think they are free to any cheeky young Raven who asks nicely

Your character is about to get his cheeky arse kicked by a certain Priestess so watch it! The list is getting way to long....

Edited May 21, 2019 by Iskallor

[Noita]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

RQ2 prices are in the table on p.48. Selling price is 200 L per point of healing.

Potion cost is ten times ingredient cost, potion potency is limited by your knowledge and your training in making the potion. If you want to make them yourself as associate member of the guild, you need to sell  about 30/potion strength plus 12 potions to break even (paying for training cost and guild association), compared to buying them from some alchemist. If you decide to learn a stronger version, it's 12 sold potions again.

As with casting Battle Magic, you should be able to make a weaker potion than your training would allow you to produce.

Thanks very much. Done and dusted.

[7Tigers]

And for broke adventurers, don't forget that fresh unicorn dung have healing powers and can counter poisons.
Not sure if I remember it well, I believe it is 1 recovered HP per kilo of (ingested) dung...

[Austin]

17 hours ago, Joerg said:

Potion cost is ten times ingredient cost

Deviating a little here, but since @Iskallor's question was answered and I feel this thread's still a relevant place to ask... would you use this rule of thumb for RQG as well? I know monetary values are a lot higher in RQ2, but the general RQ economics still feels sketchy to me.

IIRC in the Alchemy entry the materials for a potion cost an adventurer 50L per point of potency, meaning they would be 500L per POT on that rule. I was thinking of eyeballing a value of 100L per POT for a completed potion on the market (plus and minus market conditions at GM discretion) in RQG. Which is still crazy expensive, really, based on the values of other items (a Heal 3 potion would cost 300L, and be worth five times the income of an entire Free household's yearly income!).

[Shiningbrow]

9 minutes ago, Crel said:

Deviating a little here, but since @Iskallor's question was answered and I feel this thread's still a relevant place to ask... would you use this rule of thumb for RQG as well? I know monetary values are a lot higher in RQ2, but the general RQ economics still feels sketchy to me.

IIRC in the Alchemy entry the materials for a potion cost an adventurer 50L per point of potency, meaning they would be 500L per POT on that rule. I was thinking of eyeballing a value of 100L per POT for a completed potion on the market (plus and minus market conditions at GM discretion) in RQG. Which is still crazy expensive, really, based on the values of other items (a Heal 3 potion would cost 300L, and be worth five times the income of an entire Free household's yearly income!).

And, that's why farmers don't go adventuring 😛

(or, perhaps that's exactly why they do!)

[Austin]

2 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

And, that's why farmers don't go adventuring 😛

Or just learn Heal 1 and cast it 3 times during their usual whatever. But I digress; this isn't the thread to muddle through the economics and see if they feel reasonable.

[7Tigers]

34 minutes ago, Crel said:

a Heal 3 potion would cost 300L, and be worth five times the income of an entire Free household's yearly income!

I would say that almost nobody has that kind of available money in cash. I guess bill would have to be paid in services (ex: healer protection while searching for components).

[Joerg]

16 minutes ago, Crel said:

Deviating a little here, but since @Iskallor's question was answered and I feel this thread's still a relevant place to ask... would you use this rule of thumb for RQG as well? I know monetary values are a lot higher in RQ2, but the general RQ economics still feels sketchy to me.

The alchemist will spend some significant effort on making this potion, providing himself (and his dependents) with food and housing, maintaining (and occasionally replacing) his lab equipment (I work in a lab in real life, which means I have a good idea what things cost when the break down, how long certain implements remain usable, etc.), and paying taxes. Oh, and maintaining and expanding your library of methods and recipes.

IIRC RQ2 and RQG both have prices for magic cast by NPCs on your behalf. Those might be a good way to adjust the different price tables to one another.

In a way, the RQ2 Healing Potion almost feels like a pre-cast Heal Wound rather than a Heal. The RQG potion works a lot more slowly - one hit point healed immediately, additional hit points coming back one per hour.

Having pre-cast spells on you to release with just one action is a huge force multiplier, as it doesn't dig into your magic economy. If I were manager or co-manager of a hero band, I would consider to hire an alchemist on retainer if the band had been successful.

16 minutes ago, Crel said:

IIRC in the Alchemy entry the materials for a potion cost an adventurer 50L per point of potency, meaning they would be 500L per POT on that rule.

Yes - the temples (of LM, CA and certain Lunar cults) sell potion kits for 50L per potential POT. That doesn't mean that there aren't other sources for the raw material. In fact, the temples buy these in bulk, or send out parties of cultists on missions to acquire them in the field - your party will probably be tasked with something like that, or at least with running escort while a herbalist does the gathering. What they sell is the Gloranthan equivalent of a baking mix that only needs milk added and some stirring, and then careful baking, or those "brew your own little casket of beer" gimmicks.

These ingredient kits are obviously made by alchemists using the alchemy skill, too, and that means that a dedicated player or sidekick alchemist could put in that work, too. On the other hand, you buy a well tested and complete set of ingredients.

As anybody who ever worked in preparative chemistry can attest, each preparatory step towards a finished product comes with some degree of loss. In RQ terms, each such step comes with a failure likelihood that may ruin your material. In the long run, your process will have an unavoidable inherent waste rate for each step (rarely mitigated by specials or crits) multiplied by your chance of success at performing this preparation step. And worse, ingredients - even inorganic salts - don't keep indeterminately, and may have to be purified before using them (another step of loss, or else a greater risk at failure). On the whole, purchasing the fresh mix from the temple might be cheaper than trying to produce it yourself.

16 minutes ago, Crel said:

I was thinking of eyeballing a value of 100L per POT for a completed potion on the market (plus and minus market conditions at GM discretion) in RQG. Which is still crazy expensive, really, based on the values of other items (a Heal 3 potion would cost 300L, and be worth five times the income of an entire Free household's yearly income!).

RQG doesn't mention ingredients or lab equipment cost. It only gets specific by mentioning that alchemy requires "specific raw materials" - so no info available here.

RQG treats healing potions as possible heirlooms (Harmast has drawn the "13" heirloom in the lottery).

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Crel said:

Deviating a little here, but since @Iskallor's question was answered and I feel this thread's still a relevant place to ask... would you use this rule of thumb for RQG as well? I know monetary values are a lot higher in RQ2, but the general RQ economics still feels sketchy to me.

You're right, and I think that that is because we have a modern view of how economics work and Glorantha just isn't like that.

RQ2 did have some silly adventure loot rewards and that brought with it silly prices for magic items. Picking the two apart is not easy, though, and we have the big unknown of the ingredients for healing potions.

[Joerg]

9 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

You're right, and I think that that is because we have a modern view of how economics work and Glorantha just isn't like that.

RQ2 did have some silly adventure loot rewards and that brought with it silly prices for magic items. Picking the two apart is not easy, though, and we have the big unknown of the ingredients for healing potions.

Basically, this is a whole economy of adventurer activities waiting to be written.

If you look at Biturian's Horngate episode in Cults of Prax, there are a number of healing plants mentioned, but the section also has a CA runespell Refine Medicine which works analogous to Heal Wound to instill POT into herbs, or to transform their field of operation (moving along the table provided under the cult skill Find Healing Plants which apparently both Biturian and Norayeep possess). Unfortunately for both Biturian and us, there is no sale, and neither any information on the amount of plants required for a healing attempt, and the amount that can be harvested.

The table has a number of cute ideas. Upon a quick check, none of the plants mentioned in the Biturian narrative made it into the RQG Bestiary.

[g33k]

3 hours ago, 7Tigers said:

I would say that almost nobody has that kind of available money in cash. I guess bill would have to be paid in services (ex: healer protection while searching for components).

Not cash; but not necessarily services either (although that does lead to adventures, so...) .

Loot can as easily come in the form of jewelry, collectors' items, other magic, etc etc etc.  If you have just brought back from the Rubble a golden lantern with cut-crystal panes & an on-command "Light" spell instead of wick-and-oil, I bet LOTS of healer-cults will give you full cash credit for that, toward healing potions; and given its gold-and-light theme, a Yelm(alio) temple may even go over "market" rates...

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Basically, this is a whole economy of adventurer activities waiting to be written.

Do remember, though, to caution the adventurers not to negotiate for healing potions in Pavis on clayday, if they're wearing a tutu.

 

 

Because Iskallor.

[jps]

What strikes me in RQ:G is that we keep on calling PCs adventurers but they are not mere adventurers: they are part of a community. Which brings me on the current subject: sure you might want to convert healing potions into money equivalent but I think that most of the time it will be part of a reward (or of an upfront payment). I agree that spending 50L per Potency (for an initiate) is the kind of money no adventurer will be able to spend on a regular basis and if adventurers can't have a regular supply of healing potions (I don't mean plenty of them just from time to time) then they won't buy any. Which means the market doesn't even exist.

[BalazarLightson]

In Pavis your local shaman could make a spirit bundle charm for you, one use magic bundle, it keeps longer than an Alchemists potion as long as you bring it back to him on Wild Day of Fertility Week each Dark Season for spirit appeasement. Once you use the spirit a small fee will let him summon another to fill it's place.

[Shiningbrow]

If you're eyeballing 50-100L per POT, then it should also be born in mind that p406 on Casting Spells says that normally it's 20L per Rune Point, x10 if it's a permanent loss - so, 200L per POW.

Enchantments are *much* more common than alchemists (and, probably the ingredients they need), so if you're looking at an even vaguely useful Healing Potion (ie, POT 3-6), then the money is better spent on a Spirit Binding Matrix, with a spirit that has said Healing spell 4-6. I'd be confident in saying that most Chalana Arroy temples would be happy to provide such a service/product to initiates of associated cults (for a price, of course!)

If our argument on the POW usage of Wyters allows, then it could be the Wyter's POW that gets used!

So, a few hundred on a 1-use potion? Or slightly more expensive (maybe!) on a spirit?

[Noita]

14 hours ago, g33k said:

Do remember, though, to caution the adventurers not to negotiate for healing potions in Pavis on clayday, if they're wearing a tutu.

 

 

Because Iskallor.

All my Orlanthi wear tutus.

Because Iskallor.

[g33k]

9 hours ago, Iskallor said:

All my Orlanthi wear tutus.

Anything that lets the Sacred Wind blow freely...

[Austin]

14 hours ago, BalazarLightson said:

In Pavis your local shaman could make a spirit bundle charm for you, one use magic bundle, it keeps longer than an Alchemists potion as long as you bring it back to him on Wild Day of Fertility Week each Dark Season for spirit appeasement. Once you use the spirit a small fee will let him summon another to fill it's place.

Could you elaborate on this? I don't know of something in RQG which involves a spirit bundle. Is this from OoP sources? It sounds interesting. Thanks!

[7Tigers]

I guess it is:
Spirit Charms in Glorantha & Runequest
http://www.backtobalazar.com/spirit-charms-glorantha-runequest/

[Bill the barbarian]

On 5/22/2019 at 4:57 AM, 7Tigers said:

I guess bill would have to be paid in services

actually I prefer cash.