Sir_Godspeed

I don't think it was mentioned specifically, but the pupil in the eyes turning into images of the Red Moon (differing phases depending on the magic or the initiated cult) could be cool. Maybe as a prelude. As in "oh shit, their eyes went weird. Something's going down."

Unfortunately that's true, and will likely remain the case until we get a comprehensive look into the East Isles (which lorewise has SEVERAL Buddha-figures, actually, or Bodhishattvas, I suppose). Nick Brooke might have examples of less "destructive" Illuminates. He has a lot of insight into the Lunars.

Man, I wish I had any recording equipment and audio editing software - and, well, some time to record something.

I'd throw up some red light-Mandalas appearing like a halo/nimbus or like seals on the ground or something. Looks cool.

Aren't there literal, explicit references to one of these deities teaching other gods illumination? I seem to recall there being a reference to this during a discussion on whether Chalana Arroy was illuminated. Disentanglement with the collapse of the universe isn't necessarily acceptance. I mean, I have no horse either way, but the actual dragons were already illuminated and ascended even by then, and the dragonewts left are the "spiritual dunces" so to speak, so I'm not sure what either tells us. Which is interesting, considering how the Dara Happan sources never really talks about Chaos in and of itself. This might just be because Nysalor's teachings is a fusion of Orlanthi-Pelorian ideas where the Chaos element comes from the Orlanthi, or it might be that the Rashoranic/Zayeteneric cults originated from outside the Dara Happan core (Pelanda, Naveria, etc.) and had different ideas. Not sure. Possibly outside the scope of this discussion. This is completely circumstantial, but it seems to me that Nysalorean illumination is less strict with disentanglement, and more forgiving of using powers for temporal influence than Draconic illumination is. The dragons eventually saw the EWF's meddling as an error, and there are several sources about how the Orlanthi dragon mystics were spiritually screwed over by using their powers, but the Nysalorean remnants don't seem to have any kind of similar epiphany, instead blaming their downfall on exterior enemies. Or if they DID recognize internal faults, they might've stopped calling themselves Nysaloreans and taken up some other monicker (especially in Dara Happa as Nysaloreans were purged, but may have hidden under the umbrella of the Yelmic revival or whatever)

My impression was that the Ice Trolls were a separate "civilization"/troll culture, and that they were more aligned with the Valind-Himile complex than with Dark Trolls. I'll admit I have very little to base this on other than just general descriptions of what they're up to. I was planning to make Ice Trolls a general foe, whose pro-Glacier efforts (supposing such a thing is possible through alliance with the Hollri, etc.) were generally opposed by (almost) everyone in North Pent, but maybe also involving some tribute payment, etc. I'm very willing to hear more input on this. Complicating the cleavage lines is always good. The more I can mix potential hostility and potential friendliness the better.

Good catch. However, I believe the bit about Babeester Gor killing much of the world is an artifact of Esrolan mythology specifically. I do like any kind of neat connection though, and the theme of "killing to purify/killing out of grief over their dead parent" is present in both. On another note, if Shargash had a primordial form of a slash-and-burn agricultural deity, then he might conveivably be involved in early Aldryami conception of Taker (not sure how that relates to Oakfed, if at all).

The difference being that "dwarves" is a grammatical innovation by Tolkien, whereas "elves" is the standard, I believe. So "elfs" kinda comes off as a reactionary anti-Tolkien hypercorrection.

Oh yeah, and the Guide contains information about Aldryami outside of Central Genertela, so the 2nd Age Aldryami Empire in Pamaltela, the new Aldryami forests in Jrustela, various plans for the reseeding, etc.

There's also this first-person essay from Belintar's perspective on how it was to be an elf, which delves a bit into their mythology and history as well.

Argrath's enemies may have also used certain means to prevent them from being resurrected. I'm reading the Fortunate Succession now, and it talk about the Lunars having to "work to prevent our men from being trapped in foreign hells". Secondly, there is the potential possibility that some people... don't want to be resurrected? If someone dies a worthy death and feels a strong certainty that they will party forever with Orlanth, then their mortal ties might beckon less strongly. Lastly (for my post), there's probably an inherent uncertainty to healing and resurrecting. Sometimes the ritual just doesn't take. That's life.

Some ideas stewing inside: Troll Marshes: - Not a true Queendom, but the closest thing to an organized troll polity (a loose gang-confederation) between the Blue Moon Plateau and Dozakiland/Newhome. - The different gangs are of varying attitudes to the humans around them, though raids and counter raids are fairly common on a seasonal basis. The trolls range out during winter when the marsh freezes, trying to escape from their raiding victims with livestock, food or trinkets, and occasionally slaves or victims for eating or sacrificing if the local trollkin have died and/or been eaten. Trolls also raid each other, but this carries more political consequences. - Rumor of Mistress Trolls in the marsh? Might just be nonsense. Propaganda, perhaps. - The trolls ranging in North Pent outside of the Marsh may travel there for trade, mating, or religious/magical purposes. - The marsh trolls are hostile to the Ice Trolls, who've tried to occupy it before. - There is some sort of marsh nymph at the heart of the swamp which the trolls placate with living sacrifice (usually animals or trollkin), lest the very ground they tread on swallow them. The trolls and surrounding humans believe this nymph is the queen of the Will-o-wisps, that can guide people to safety or to their doom in the shifting ground and waters of the marsh. - Widespread Gorakiki worship, and rearing and export of insect products, which is the main source of wealth for the marshes. Most of the insects die during winter (or are butchered before it), but the eggs survive. Some can hibernate in a frozen state until spring, unless the hungry trolls hack the ice apart and eat them (a desperate move). Reindeer Woods: - Populated by reindeer hunters and herders (not sure if both or just one of them). - In Muskox People culture, the reindeer folk are intrinsically associated with shamanism, and are seen as and stereotyped as powerful "sorcerers". - They are not seen as great warriors, as they prefer evasion and flight to outright armed confrontation, a cultural clash of ideal between the groups. The Muskoxi may raid them if given the chance, or trade with them if beneficial, or otherwise join with them against trolls or Pentans, and so forth. - The reindeer folk have a terrible secret about Chaos they won't speak of. - The reindeer folk may be related to a nearby fishing and whaling people, but such cultural complexities are beyond the Muskoxi's horizon. West King Wind: - He is the most cunning of the Wind Kings, to the point of being untrustworthy at times. - He sometimes puts on a fox hide to make mischief (may be a cult secret with the Arctic Fox or Skiing Goddess cults) - (speculative ideas:) He tricked, seduced and dishonored the Sun's Son as revenge for prior transgressions of the Sun. [Part of a larger mythic cycle about the Sun dying, but the whole cycle is not purely about the West Wind. Possibly replace seducing of his son with something about cuckoldry, ie. seducing the Sun's wife, the Earth.] - For this and other aspects, the Muskox People keep him at an arm's length, as he is mercurial. - The distinction between West King Wind and Arctic Fox is (perhaps?) complicated, nuanced, self-contradicting and not something the Muskox people think too much about. It is what it is.

Damn, check out the dude with the fur leggings on the left. What an absolute madlad.

I was encouraged to post this here, for future reference:

Ah, yes, when Mostali and Aldryami were competing in who had the best secrets, the Aldryami won because they didn't reveal them. Clever folk.

I just thought this was really cool, and is something I could envision being played in Esrolia or rural Dara Happa or something.

Ah, yes. Squirrel. Friend of the forest... of sorts. (Purely making up stuff here... a vegetative representation of the Trickster might be something like a creeping vine which is parasitic to trees - or even something fungal, even if Dark Elves themselves aren't particularly trickstery.)

I believe it was the sky that was bronze. The sea was wine colored, if I recall correctly. (All due to the Greeks lacking a specific word for blue.)

Hell, Androgeus is explicitly stated as being one of the most powerful and most widely known heroes aren't they? And are also blamed for all kinds of problems and generally seen as a walking disaster (whether a cause of them or just being around when they happen). I could be wrong, my main impression comes from assorted texts.

Yeah, but in-universe sources are, as pointed out, from a moral viewpoint that is completely different from modern universalistic ethics, so why would those sources be so provocative? They're *explicitly* biased. I always assumed that was part of the premise of Glorantha, which I sort of alluded to in my first post in this thread.

That's how "heroes" often seen in ancient and medieval pagan (perhaps less so in Abrahamic) sources. Hercules and others end up going nuts and doing lots of horrible stuff. Eigill Skallagrimsson is not a nice person. I mean, hell, the Old Testament hebrew heroes do some morally pretty sketchy stuff as well. I guess people accept this premise with Harrek, since he's already presented as a kind of "chaotic neutral" (in DnD terms) kind of figure, whereas perhaps people expected more of a classically "virtuous" heroism from Argrath, which is why there's more of a tendency to want to judge Argrath my modern moral sensibilities, but not Harrek.

Eyh man, that's not a dumb theory at all! I'm sure some people will find reasons to dismiss it, but I don't know any particular reason why it'd be impossible. The blue skin might only be a PoS comic thing, I'm not sure if Belintar's "true form" is ever revealed in other media, and blue skin is of course present in other groups as well (some Orlanthi with Helering ancestry, and the Veldang of Pamaltela, though they'd look like sub-saharan Africans to us, I believe, and probably other groups), but again, it's a deliberate mystery who he is.

A Touch of Frost is great.

Is it going to be like in some RW religions where there are a bunch of permanent ascetics living around the holy site and meditating on the events that occured there, perhaps living off donations from pilgrims?