Sir_Godspeed

I'm reading the Fortunate Succession now, and this raised a question regarding Yelm and Nysalor: isn't there something about the Sun God not being Yelm Proper before the Sunstop or something? So technically the decision to create Nysalor would have predated the Dara Happan perception, at least, that Yelm was "back". (The sun gods prior to this appear to have been called Antirius and Kargzant, which, altough we usually think of them as Lightfore deities, seem to have served as the sun disk gods post-Dawn until the Sunstop as well). I may very well have gotten this incorrectly, so I welcome corrections. It takes some effort to internalize. I'd like to know some examples of this too.

Umath didn't "drive his parents apart": he was the manifestation of their orgasmic sigh/breath/cry, hence his energetic virility. The reason why Sky and Earth split was because they needed to "have a moment" after what was clearly quite the lay.

yeeeeeeesss!

Gaaaah, I just love these character designs! (Also, lmao at "I'd like to impregnate one of their priestesses, if you know what I mean." XD Obviously a Trickster would just throw double entendres to the wind put still pretend there was one.)

The language is a bit confusing, because what is rendered as "queen" in English might actually be chief or king in "Orlanthi". As far as I understand it, women can be dedicated to Orlanth or Vinga and from there Orlanth Rex, and will therefore gain the accoutrements of a Storm King/Chief. A woman acting in this capacity emulates Orlanth, not Ernalda. She is functionally identical to a male storm chief. The Queen/Priestess role a woman (or man/Nandan) has when emulating Ernalda is a different socio-religious leadership role. If I wanted to be *really* generalizing, I'd say the Orlanth role is more of a warlord, while the Ernalda role is more of a treasurer, both engaging in judge-like activities, iirc. Whether this applies to Leika specifically, I don't know. (Sorry if this was confusing, there's a thread further back where Jeff lists Glorantha titles and he went into some detail about what the different English titles entails in-universe. It's not always what you think.)

He was both. I thought that was pretty intentional on Greg's part?

I genuinely don't get all this very real animus put into championing moral issues around Argrath's actions. Who cares, they're just background plot development to make things interesting for story hooks. It makes no difference unless you're specifically embodying someone within the Glorantha universe who has a perspective on these actions. (I know I'm being a bit flippant here, but it's getting a bit parodical, honestly) I can't see this. The idea that violent, combative deaths are THE NORM in Glorantha takes this from being a setting based on adventure over a anthropological and mythological underpinning of people living their daily lives and empires rising and falling to basically being THUNDERDOME: THE SETTING. I don't disagree that endemic warfare is a real thing, and that monsters exist, or that violent clashes between empires cause catalclysmic results, but again, making violent, combative deaths the norm would require frankly ludicrous amounts of violence on an everyday basis that seems at odds with what Glorantha presents itself as. If others who know more about this than me says otherwise, fair enough, but from where I'm standing now, it would seem like you'd have to increase RW rates of violence and killing in people's lives by an unfeasible amount to make the result come out correctly.

Basically imagine this, but on a cosmic/Platonic idealistic scale:

It's entirely possible that the Pralori will play the role of collaborateurs and be "gifted"/"allowed" open forest meadows in the forest, maybe under something a la the Forest Judgments of Umathela. This is entirely speculative, though. I agree with your presentation of the Aldryami.

@Qizilbashwoman relevant, I'd reckon.

Whether Nochet or Raibanth or Pavis, this seems like it could get the ol' noggin goin' for those looking for visual inspiration for Glorantha.

The secret ingredient is Iron Vrok.

The famous Diamond Gold Dwarf UHM-AHKCHUALLY comes to mind.

All of Belintar's achievements were up to pure dumb luck, he has no idea how any of this works.

Potential additions/angles: - Orlanth unknowingly helped Yelm achieve utuma by dismembering him. - He started off thinking he had to atone for his ills, but instead he realized that he had to perform utuma too. - Together they were liberated and achieved draconic illumination, thus reviving the world so as to open the way for lesser souls to achieve it as well. Just some loose ideas.

Somewhat like Dragon Pass, Maniria comes off as a liminal region, most noteworthy for its role as a connector. And from there comes the triumphs and disasters therein.

Or by that point, he's beyond caring what happens even to his own.

Well damn! Why y'all didn't talk about that earlier while other peeps waxed lyrical about how much of a Gary Stu Argrath is! 😅

Also: it's not a detriment that there is some consequence in Glorantha. Some things should give people pause and consider the risks involved.

I love the kobuksan! One of my favorite units in Age of Empires, heh heh. Granted, this is quite a step beyond that. Very cool!

Yeah, setbacks are important, they are what exacerbates the desperate fanaticism. I'm reminded of Warcraft 3, and the story of Arthas. You spend so much of that storyline unearthing the necromantic conspiracy to turn the population of the kingdom undead by poisoning grain supplies, and so after fighting messy battle after messy battle against peasants-turned-zombies you arrive at the city of Stratholme, only to be too late as the population has already eaten the poisoned grain. At that point, knowing that you'll soon be facing an entire city turned into undead, Arthas makes the desperate decision to preemptively kill everyone in the city, to prevent them from becoming undead and ravaging the region. It's such a clearly evil thing to do, so obviously beyond the moral pale, but since you've been playing as the character for several hours, and since you've just fought several battles barely scraping by survival against hordes of rotting monsters in derelict villages and towns, as a player you're inclined to agree that it's the most logical thing to do (or otherwise, horrified to be forced into being a complicit). Those are the kinds of moments Arkat has (being killed at Kartolin, losing his Brithini support, the failed campaigns in Kethaela, etc.) that I guess Argrath lacks. Hell, if you were to let Kallyr survive and continue her quest, she would have the Dragonrise as a motivator to become more fanatically desperate, for example. Then again, I suppose you could argue that Argrath learnt from her setbacks or something. I'll admit my understanding of the exact storyline here is sketchy at best, even after reading King of Sartar.

It is the Arkati mentality. Sworn utterly and completely against the foe. Nevermind that the various sorcerous groups known as Arkati today might not follow that mentality or not, but it's the same theme we find in Arkat's saga, Sheng Seleris' conquests, and Argrath's epic struggle. That's what I like about them. Fanatics are captivating narrative figures, irrespective of one's personal morals.

A lot of Glorantha is more Hellenic-ish/Classical Antiquity than Bronze Age, so this seems perfectly applicable for Glorantha, imho.

While I can see that (tracks with how there are different wind gods for different climates, and different earth gods for different regions, for example), what's the evidence/textual basis for this conclusion?

something something Monster Empire maybe?