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Draconic Orlanth


YetAnotherArkat

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19 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

in the same way that bronze age people explained it 🙂

There are relatively few Bronze Age medical texts.  One of the few sources is Ancient Egypt, and they don't describe the digestive system despite their work on anatomy afaik.  The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine (which is iron age but a very early surviving medical treatise) describes the Digestive system as working like a fuel burning stove.  This clearly can't work with Glorantha, as Fire is associated with Intellect, not Constitution which is Earth or devouring which is Darkness.

 

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On 2/8/2023 at 1:59 AM, davecake said:

So, an elephant and a snake are very closely related shapes?

Yes, of course. Don't you know the myth of when Grandfather Elephant sniffed up Brother Snake?

 

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On 2/9/2023 at 1:04 PM, Darius West said:

There are relatively few Bronze Age medical texts.  One of the few sources is Ancient Egypt, and they don't describe the digestive system despite their work on anatomy afaik.  The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine (which is iron age but a very early surviving medical treatise) describes the Digestive system as working like a fuel burning stove.  This clearly can't work with Glorantha, as Fire is associated with Intellect, not Constitution which is Earth or devouring which is Darkness.

But this the correct type of reasoning, instead of this absurd stuff about very tiny little animals and such. Personally I believe that the process of digestion may certainly in some ways have a function similar to a sacrificial fire. Not associated with Intellect, of course - but perhaps in the nature of Heat without Light (no one would associate Lodril with Intellect).

Edited by davecake
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2 hours ago, davecake said:

no one would associate Lodril with Intellect

Well, the self-satisfied — Solar and Orlanthi? — upper and middle classes with nary a calloused finger might not. The working classes might disagree — and not just working class intellectuals (who might, it is true, be a bit thin on the ground in Glorantha).

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On 2/14/2023 at 8:08 PM, davecake said:

But this the correct type of reasoning, instead of this absurd stuff about very tiny little animals and such. Personally I believe that the process of digestion may certainly in some ways have a function similar to a sacrificial fire. Not associated with Intellect, of course - but perhaps in the nature of Heat without Light (no one would associate Lodril with Intellect).

Those little tiny beast runes in your gut carry all that useful runic material from other plants and creatures that you eat to where it can do the most good in your body.  It says so right there in the Abiding Book.  Why else do you think there is that whole Book of Legalisticus that has all those dietary restrictions if not to keep ones digestive process pure and logical, without contradiction, or hinderance, and properly regular and regulated?  As to the prohibition of mixed fibre clothing, that was purely due to Talar having a wool monopoly back in the day, but don't tell anyone.

Edited by Darius West
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On 2/7/2023 at 7:59 PM, davecake said:

So, an elephant and a snake are very closely related shapes? That look very similar? 

They are both Beasts, that is animals but not men.  In Glorantha.

And in The Real World they are related not only by ancestry but by topology: Both are built around the intestinal tract with two openings.    It's a topological thing.  Those of us who evolved to have an anus, rather than just a mouth like sea anemones do, have closely related shapes.

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On 2/21/2023 at 3:45 PM, Darius West said:

Why else do you think there is that whole Book of Legalisticus that has all those dietary restrictions if not to keep ones digestive process pure and logical, without contradiction, or hinderance, and properly regular and regulated? 

You must be one of those Rokari, who only likes the Sharp Abiding Book that you there is one way to do things. In the true Abiding Book, Malkion only recommends fish, he does not mandate it, and he blesses the relish, that are foods might contain a variety of flavors and bring us joy. 
(both actually in the Abiding Book according to RM, and that’s actually the second way I’ve found to work Malkion blessing the relish into the Malkioni world view, as I think it is also a refutation of those who would practice asceticism in the name of Logic). 
Though Logic dictates hygiene and rejection of foods that are known to be inimical, or imbalance in consumption, I do not think it rejects choice and flavor. (The Furlandan school is a big influence on Loskalmi culture, and though ostensibly about defending against demons, has a great deal of practical advice about hygiene. I think of Loskalm physical culture as quite Scandinavian, mixed with Plato’s Republic of course, a fondness for indoor gymnasiums with saunas). 
 

 

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4 hours ago, davecake said:

You must be one of those Rokari, who only likes the Sharp Abiding Book that you there is one way to do things. In the true Abiding Book, Malkion only recommends fish, he does not mandate it, and he blesses the relish, that are foods might contain a variety of flavors and bring us joy. 
(both actually in the Abiding Book according to RM, and that’s actually the second way I’ve found to work Malkion blessing the relish into the Malkioni world view, as I think it is also a refutation of those who would practice asceticism in the name of Logic). 
Though Logic dictates hygiene and rejection of foods that are known to be inimical, or imbalance in consumption, I do not think it rejects choice and flavor. (The Furlandan school is a big influence on Loskalmi culture, and though ostensibly about defending against demons, has a great deal of practical advice about hygiene. I think of Loskalm physical culture as quite Scandinavian, mixed with Plato’s Republic of course, a fondness for indoor gymnasiums with saunas). 

What are you talking about "I must be one of those Rokari"?  Of course I'm a Rokari!  To suggest elsewise means you must be one of those damned heretics.  If Malkion suggests something, one should take it as writ, unless in one's hubris one is fool enough to believe one knows better than the Prophet.

As to those Loskalmi, those  caste hoppers are obvious fools.  How much better will you become if you focus on one trade rather than scattering your efforts about four?  It's a matter of simple practicality.  It's an open secret that Hrestol joined the Vadeli in any case, so how much worse than Vadeli must the Loskalmi be?

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1 hour ago, Darius West said:

As to those Loskalmi, those  caste hoppers are obvious fools.  How much better will you become if you focus on one trade rather than scattering your efforts about four?  It's a matter of simple practicality.  It's an open secret that Hrestol joined the Vadeli in any case, so how much worse than Vadeli must the Loskalmi be?

And of course virtue of birth brings the innate ability to do your caste's work, and nothing else. Unless you get chosen as a zzaburi candidate, when virtue of birth is ignored. It's all logical, trust the watchers.

Edited by Joerg

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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34 minutes ago, Joerg said:

It's all logical, trust the watchers.

Proof of the ability to do caste work is better proof of parentage than the word of any woman. Especially the child's mother. who rarely applies sounds logic to their consideration of the issue. .Often there is screaming and wailing.

if there was a great need in the land for peasants, we could search for them among the aristocracy. Have them work the fields for 6 months, and see who sickened, and who complained. Those passed the test would be true dronali.

Amusing as it would be, it is zzaburi we need, so zzaburi we search for.

 

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1 minute ago, radmonger said:

Proof of the ability to do caste work is better proof of parentage than the word of any woman. Especially the child's mother. who rarely applies sounds logic to their consideration of the issue. .Often there is screaming and wailing.

if there was a great need in the land for peasants, we could search for them among the aristocracy. Have them work the fields for 6 months, and see who sickened, and who complained. Those passed the test would be true dronali.

Amusing as it would be, it is zzaburi we need, so zzaburi we search for.

Amusingly, the Rokari of Tanisor used to be portrayed as licentious in their sexual relationships with marriages primarily establishing an inheritage for any resulting children, but all this license remaining within the caste. This may have been inherited from the linealist Hrestoli of Seshnela, some of whom survived in the lower Tanier Valley after the breaking of Old Seshnela. (Which means that the Castle Coast will have the same level of licentiousness, and its men-of-all and women-of-all allowed to mingle freely with all the castes. Essentially a ping-back to Malkion's favorite wife, Tilnta the Goddess of Love, who mothered a number of male/female pairs of twins that went on founding talar caste lineages in Brithela.)

As far as I can make sense of it, the Seshnegi linealist Malkionism caste system did not (ever) allow a change of the birth caste. It did allow advancement to the status of a (wo)man-of-all-castes.

The Rokari system of adopting suitable boys from all castes seems to be a short-cut of this superior qualification, and gives their monastic sorcery a quasi-monopoly except for "acceptable ancestral powers". The breaching of this monopoly might be a major theme in Rokari higher society of all three castes that you can be born into.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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