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YetAnotherArgrath

Draconic Orlanth

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Hello,

The Glorantha Wiki talks about Obduran and how he taught his followers to awaken Orlanth's Inner Dragon (Arangorf). Evidently Alakoring killed Arangorf and freed Orlanth. So I have two questions:

1. Anyone have insights into the origins of Arangorf and the relationship between Orlanth and dragons? (outside of History of the Heortling Peoples)

2. If Alakoring put an end to Draconic Orlanth, what's with Argrath and his draconic insights?

 

 

Edited by YetAnotherArgrath

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Arangorf is the secret that allows humans to communicate with dragons and learn from them. When Alakoring "freed" Orlanth he purged the draconic influence from the cult, possibly through a Heroquest where he killed Arangorf, and draconic knowledge was almost totally lost after the fall of the EWF when much dragon magic just stopped working. After the dragonrise, most of the dragon powers that had gone dormant woke up again, such as the Arangorf secret, allowing humans to learn them again. Argrath was probably illuminated by a true dragon, which gave him insights into dragonkind.

Hm. I wonder if the part of the myth where Orlanth broke the dance was caused by Alakorings heroquesting.... I do wish we knew more about him, he was important enough to become the primary hero of a considerable portion of Orlanthi and founded one of the big three Orlanth cults.

Edited by Richard S.
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Basically, the Heortlings originally had a story about Orlanth killing a dragon. The early dragon mystics "discovered" that this myth actually had an addendum, or alternate version, where Orlanth instead communed with the dragon and awakened his own inner draconic nature. This seems to be the mythic basis for the later stuff. Alakoring was not happy, to put it mildly.

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Argarath quite explicitly learned forbidden secrets from dead god learners, and "was more god than man" by the time he returned from his sea quest, so its no  surprise he had the power to incorporate draconic elements in his quest to defeat the Lunars.

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On 2/10/2020 at 8:52 PM, YetAnotherArgrath said:

1. Anyone have insights into the origins of Arangorf and the relationship between Orlanth and dragons? (outside of History of the Heortling Peoples)

I don't have any particular insights, except that some people think that Draconism was forced upon Orlanth and some think that his Inner Dragon was always there, waiting to be awakened.

On 2/10/2020 at 8:52 PM, YetAnotherArgrath said:

2. If Alakoring put an end to Draconic Orlanth, what's with Argrath and his draconic insights?

He made people think it was bad for Orlanth to be Draconic. However, once Orlanth's Inner Dragon was awakened, it was always present. after the Breaking of Dragons and the Dragonkill, it was severely weakened, as very few Orlanthi worshipped or followed it, but it was still there, followed in secret by Draconic Orlanthi mystics.

Argrath did several Draconic things:

  • Found the EWF Battle Banner
  • Owned the Dragonteeth Warriors
  • Spoke to the Dragons on the Ship Raising HeroQuest
  • Awakened the Brown Dragon at the Dragon Rise
  • Caused the True Dragons to pull down the Red Moon

Personally, I think that he encountered some Orlanthi Draconic Mystics and learned their secrets, allowing him to access some of the EWF Powers.

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32 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Personally, I think that he encountered some Orlanthi Draconic Mystics and learned their secrets, allowing him to access some of the EWF Powers.

I wonder who that could've been...

Screenshot_20200214-155206__01.jpg

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1 hour ago, soltakss said:

 

  • Spoke to the Dragons on the Ship Raising HeroQuest
  • Awakened the Brown Dragon at the Dragon Rise

Was Argrath even involved in those? Those are Kallyr projects with Orlaront Dragonfrend as her draconic expert, aren’t they? I mean, this being Argrath I would assume he tried to take the credit later, but...

Edited by Akhôrahil

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1 minute ago, Akhôrahil said:

Was Argrath involved in those? Those are Kallyr projects with Orlaront Dragonfrend as her draconic expert, aren’t they?

Maybe he came along for the ride? I'm not too familiar with the events behind either one.

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49 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Was Argrath even involved in those? Those are Kallyr projects with Orlaront Dragonfrend as her draconic expert, aren’t they? I mean, this being Argrath I would assume he tried to take the credit later, but...

He probably inspired them, or sent them to do it.

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1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Was Argrath even involved in those? Those are Kallyr projects with Orlaront Dragonfrend as her draconic expert, aren’t they? I mean, this being Argrath I would assume he tried to take the credit later, but...

Neither. As you note, both are "Kallyr" projects, or more likely Minaryth Purple projects.  Orlaront certainly helped with the latter.

Argrath and Harrek were just returning from their circumnavigation when the boat rose. And the timing of that is not coincidental!

During the Dragonrise, Argrath was in Pavis having been defeated in battle by the Lunars earlier in the year.

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2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

During the Dragonrise, Argrath was in Pavis having been defeated in battle by the Lunars earlier in the year.

The 1620s are so jam-packed with events that I need to really read up on the timeline of events someday, as character are jumping all over the place constantly in my mind. Been a while since I read King of Sartar, but it is of course intentionally obtuse, so not sure how useful it is for this sort of thing.

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11 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The 1620s are so jam-packed with events that I need to really read up on the timeline of events someday, as character are jumping all over the place constantly in my mind. Been a while since I read King of Sartar, but it is of course intentionally obtuse, so not sure how useful it is for this sort of thing.

KoS is not entirely consistent (and deliberately that way), so not always the first source to turn to.  Out of it, the Composite History of Dragon Pass is the best reference point.

But don't forget the Character Background in RQG. That helps place where some of the key leaders are too.

Edited by jajagappa
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17 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Was Argrath even involved in those? Those are Kallyr projects with Orlaront Dragonfrend as her draconic expert, aren’t they? I mean, this being Argrath I would assume he tried to take the credit later, but...

Kallyr exiled Orlaront Dragonfriend after the Dragonrise (KoS p127).

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2 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Kallyr exiled Orlaront Dragonfriend after the Dragonrise (KoS p127).

Orlaront: "OOPS" THAT WENT BETTER THAN EXPECTED
Kallyr: 🤬

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39 minutes ago, Grievous said:

Orlaront: "OOPS" THAT WENT BETTER THAN EXPECTED
Kallyr: 🤬

Kallyr: I told everyone this dragon stuff was bad! 

Orlaront: It was all Minaryth's fault! He's the one who put the quest together!

Kallyr: Well, too bad he's dead and can't answer that. We need a scapegoat to carry off the bad omens. Guess who... 

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1 hour ago, Grievous said:

Orlaront: "OOPS" THAT WENT BETTER THAN EXPECTED
Kallyr: 🤬

Isn't it all a spectacular success though? Kallyr has little to be unhappy about.

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2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Isn't it all a spectacular success though? Kallyr has little to be unhappy about.

Only lost the person who was figuring out her quests for her, and then sent away the next most likely person who had a clue.... And what happens during the next Sacred Time without them?  It's just bad...

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19 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Only lost the person who was figuring out her quests for her, and then sent away the next most likely person who had a clue.... And what happens during the next Sacred Time without them?  It's just bad...

Didn't Minaryth Purple just get his boot chewed off, or am I confusing him with someone else?

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4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Didn't Minaryth Purple just get his boot chewed off, or am I confusing him with someone else?

He was already dead when the boot was taken.

KoS p.126 "It rose high enough that it snapped off the heels from the boots of Minaryth Purple, who had been killed and was being held aloft by his companions."

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And so Orlaront goes to hang out with that Argrath guy in Pavis, and immediately starts work on building a base of draconic magic friendly allies in Pavis who can extract EWF secrets from the Rubble, starts the Sun County civil war in the process. Now Argrath feels he has the magical secrets that have been shown to be the only thing useful against the Empire.... but in order to use them he is going to have to get Kallyr out of the way... 

Kallyr is such a great tragic figure, close to getting everything right, but just when she should be seeing her plans come to fruition instead we’ll intentioned bad choices and missteps see her brought down by those more ruthless,  cynical and adaptable.

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7 hours ago, davecake said:

Kallyr is such a great tragic figure, close to getting everything right, but just when she should be seeing her plans come to fruition instead we’ll intentioned bad choices and missteps see her brought down by those more ruthless,  cynical and adaptable.

Sounds like a great tragic play or epic!  Now showing exclusively in Nochet and Boldhome... 🙂

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6 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Sounds like a great tragic play or epic!  Now showing exclusively in Nochet and Boldhome... 🙂

what do we know about public performances in larger settlements and cities? like, we're into legit theatre era in Nochet for sure

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3 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

what do we know about public performances in larger settlements and cities? like, we're into legit theatre era in Nochet for sure

Sacred Time rituals are basically that in a fashion. Not the Globe, exactly, but not too far off from Greek theatre or, for that matter, Balinese Hindu-Buddhist theatre iirc. Lots of audience participation, etc, which might not be the norm of scripted long-form theatre as we think of it, but a sense of fixed dramaturgy. 

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if Nochet has dedicated places for "secular" (not that there's really a clean line there) performances as well. There is an upper class there that could serve as patrons for writers and poets, for example, and there is a mass audience in search of entertainment - and there are the literary-minded who might seek to preserve history through dramaturgy or make some kind of polemic statetement. The ingredients are there!

And if the Greek inspiration for the Kethaelan Orlanthi extends beyond aesthetic design, we might see palace/great hall orgies/feasts involving the host hiring a few actors or poets to come and perform a smaller play, recite some epic poems and the like. 

Thinking about it, temples might hold public theatrical performances on Holy Days as well. I believe that's something Indian temples have a history of doing. Just spitballing here.

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1 minute ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Sacred Time rituals are basically that in a fashion. Not the Globe, exactly, but not too far off from Greek theatre or, for that matter, Balinese Hindu-Buddhist theatre iirc. Lots of audience participation, etc, which might not be the norm of scripted long-form theatre as we think of it, but a sense of fixed dramaturgy.

I meant moving the line from actual godtime action to more abstracted storytelling, especially with the sharp political commentary that the Greeks employed. This is basically how Greek theatre began: by secularising ritual performance into public spectacle outside of ritual and employing it as political commentary. The Esrolian governance begs for nastygrams via poetry and deeply pointed plays.

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