Ethilrist

[mfbrandi]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Mr. Auroch … stated that it was he who stole the net of Arachne Solara when it was used to make the Sun stop in the sky.

Maybe Ethilrist likes to tell these stories because they involve someone other than him being the most boastful person in the room.

Maybe people like to believe this one because they don’t like to think that Arachne Solara herself was responsible for the Sunstop. But we know better, right?

[Erol of Backford]

On 1/8/2023 at 1:45 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Getting back to Ethilrist, what year did his cook make pumpkin pie? Did he or his minions take part in Grizzly Peaks, other battles in Tarsh or the Sartar Invasion? (Late 1400's-early 1500's? - thanks Jaja.)

It seems part of the Black Horse Troop fought for Sartar in the 1613 Rebellion and possibly some were in Pavis (maybe just an emissary) but what other dates do we know about where and when the Black Horse Troop was active outside of the Muse Roost?

I am looking more at say 1582 - 1613 rather than later.

Anyone have a list of dates and locations?

I didn't see any info on this:

When was Hungary Jack killed and where, anyone?

Did the Black horse Troop take part in Grizzly Peaks, the Sartar Invasion or suppression of the 1613 Rebellion?

[jajagappa]

32 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

When was Hungary Jack killed and where, anyone?

Hungry Jack exists in the Convergences, and was met/killed there. I believe the location is in the Mislari Mountains (see Guide p.361, and repeated p.397: "An elusive pass is known to cross over the Mislari, but is continually lost. The last successful crossing was over a century ago by Ethilrist, at the time merely a heroic mercenary captain called Lord of the White Horse Troop.")

That also gives you the approximate date, ca. 1520 ST. He reappears around 1560 ST after his exit from Hell and entered service 30 years service with the Red Emperor. He likely participated at Grizzly Peak, but had retired to Black Horse County subsequently and would have skipped the Sartar invasion and Starbrow's Rebellion (unless he needed more coin, but there is no mention that he did).

See Guide p.170: "In exchange for the grant, Ethilrist gave thirty years’ loyalty to the Empire, and for thirty years the Troop harried Sartar rebels and the Grazelanders. The day after the thirty years were up, Ethilrist made common cause with the Feathered Horse Queen and burned the Imperial town of Dunstop. Since then, Ethilrist has spent many years in Muse Roost writing his 12 volume A History of My Black Horse Troop."

Also see p.750: "Volumes VII and VIII record his later deeds, including his interactions with the Red Emperor, the Feathered Horse Queen, King Tarkalor, and other historical figures. It was rare that his soldiers rode their unearthly steeds to mingle in purely human matters."

[Erol of Backford]

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The day after the thirty years were up, Ethilrist made common cause with the Feathered Horse Queen and burned the Imperial town of Dunstop.

Last question, when as if I add 30 years to the 1560 date its 1590, I am missing something or soo I am guessing unless 1590 is when Dunstop burned?

Thank you once again Jaja!

Edited June 18, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[Joerg]

On 6/18/2023 at 5:55 PM, jajagappa said:

It was rare that his soldiers rode their unearthly steeds to mingle in purely human matters

For a mercenary, this either means his not purely human matters were very lucrative, or that his business model either sucked or had been way too successful in the past. Judging from Ethilrist's texts, probably the latter.

Still, demon horses need to feed.

[Erol of Backford]

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

Still, demon horses need to feed.

Would the demon horse become tainted with chaos if they eat say broos or walktapus?

Also why not give them a chunk of walktapus that is balancing to the host's digestive system? I think broo in one regiment were feed walktapus no?

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

walktapus

it seems to me that walktapus biscuits don't taint you if you eat

[Erol of Backford]

21 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

it seems to me that walktapus biscuits don't taint you if you eat

So eating chaos meat wouldn't tain you but eating human flesh would turn you into an ogre? Not disagreeing just curious...

[AndrewTBP]

See the RuneQuest Companion for the Walktapie recipe. 

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

So eating chaos meat wouldn't taint you but eating human flesh would turn you into an ogre?
Not disagreeing just curious...

To avoid drifting too far OT here, just see this old Greg Sez thing.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

So eating chaos meat wouldn't tain you but eating human flesh would turn you into an ogre? Not disagreeing just curious...

yes it disturbed me too years ago 😛

I think, and Greg's answers confort me - i did not know them, very interesting -, that gaining chaos taint is more because the "anti-world", "anti-law", "evilness" (don't know the most appropriate word) of the action/intent than how much chaos was already present. Not sure I m clear, sorry if not)

 

16 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

this old Greg Sez thing

thanks for that!

Now we have runes, I don't know how it could be impacted (is it a % to gain 1d6 ?)

[metcalph]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

So eating chaos meat wouldn't tain you but eating human flesh would turn you into an ogre? Not disagreeing just curious...

Because eating human flesh does not turn you into an Ogre. 

[Erol of Backford]

9 hours ago, metcalph said:

Because eating human flesh does not turn you into an Ogre. 

Not actually eating but the act then? I am sure I was reading that you become tainted by doing chaotic things like eating human flesh.

The related item to this thread for me was why not feed the Black Horses broo and other chaos tainted beings since they are demonic and would not become tainted? But wait, there are chaos demons?

This is where I get hung up. 

[JRE]

In my interpretation Demons are creatures native to one of the Hells, as opposed to people living in Glorantha's mortal domain, or mortal souls temporarily residing in Hell. As such they are not intrinsically chaotic, but they can be corrupted by Chaos. So yes, there are chaos Demons.

As there are many hells, there are many different demons. That would make Uzuz demons, and I believe they would accept the title with pride, in the same way Zorak Zoran is the Lord Demon of the Legions of Death. So I suspect Lord Ethilrist will not feed his Demon horses with tainted chaotic meat, and the horses will not eat it voluntarily, though it is likely as demons they are immune to disease and will eat broo as easily as humans. I also play that the Demon horses do not feed only on flesh, but also on souls. A Rider can feed POW to their mount, when they spend time at peace.

As for eating human flesh, I believe the potential ogre connection requires that your culture sees such an act as taboo, an abomination, not the act in itself. It falls under Wakboth's corruption, moral decay, rather than Kajaboor, physical decay.

Most Orlanthi consider eating human flesh chaotic, so an Orlanthi that does so risks acquiring Chaos affinity, and that may well turn him into an ogre, but that will be much rarer than the stories tell. Meanwhile a Red Vadeli or a member of the Cannibal Cult or a Basmoli following secret Lion rites may well eat Human flesh often without any chaotic effect, because for them it is not a chaotic act. Uz see as normal killing and eating  other Uz (except for  Mother), and it is part of their death rites, so I would expect the Demon Horses do so too, so Demon Horse corpses are not normally accesible to others.

The consumption of part of the rider's soul may be what links the horses with their riders, and it is necessary to keep the horses from returning back to their Hell.

Edited June 27, 2023 by JRE
Adding "intrinsically" and minor clarifications

[Akhôrahil]

18 minutes ago, JRE said:

In my interpretation Demons are creatures native to one of the Hells

Which includes the Red Moon, as moon demons are certainly a thing.

[metcalph]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Not actually eating but the act then? I am sure I was reading that you become tainted by doing chaotic things like eating human flesh.

Eating human flesh is not a chaotic act and there are plenty of non-chaotic cannibals in glorantha - Trolls for example. 

 

 

[Erol of Backford]

On 6/27/2023 at 3:00 PM, metcalph said:

Eating human flesh is not a chaotic act and there are plenty of non-chaotic cannibals in glorantha - Trolls for example.

I don't disagree, just read/misread it somewhere, maybe it was in an older Hero Quest book? Sorry to have been sidetracked.

Assuming the Black Horses are not chaotic and if not would they become so if they eat broo or walktapus, as an example or would the fact that they are demonic prevent them from being chaotic?

I get it that the chunk of walktapus might register as chaotic no matter if they were or not?

To that point is their spirit chaotic, would it become so because they ate something physically tinted with chaos?

On another note, I assume as they are demons they really don't need to eat but that they have an insatiable hunger for flesh as noted in CotD on p.151.

[jajagappa]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:04 PM, Erol of Backford said:

insatiable hunger for flesh as noted in CotD on p.151.

Not sure what CotD is???

But see RuneQuest Bestiary p.182. It only notes they are carnivorous, not some insatiable hunger.

"The Black Horses of the Black Horse Troop were taken from the herds started when the Sun was a resident of Hell. The conditions of Hell made for a very different breed of horse, to the extent that they are carnivorous and capable of fighting with bite and claw like a cat."

[Erol of Backford]

Sorry, Company of the Dragon.

The horses are not nearly as tough as I thought they'd be... but a 4d6 claw is pretty good. I should start looking with word search in the PDF...

Thanks!

[jajagappa]

11 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

word search in the PDF...

Much more reliable than the index! Plus you sometimes find extra bits.

13 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Sorry, Company of the Dragon.

Ok, got it.

Since Andrew based his steeds on horses (from the Bestiary), I don't know why he didn't just use the Black Horses from the same Bestiary. But likely he had a more vampiric image in mind for his by restoring HP through blood drinking. Certainly you can go that direction in your game if it appeals more.

There's nothing to indicate a constant need for them to be fed though unlike a monstrosity like the Crimson Bat. And if they did have such insatiable hunger, it's hard to picture where they would go to feed given their isolation in Black Horse County and lack of records of their ongoing presence in war during much of this period. 

It could be that Ethilrist lets them return to the Burnt Plains of Hell regularly to feast on beings there and only needs to call the full troop back when a contract is sealed.

[Erol of Backford]

9 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

But likely he had a more vampiric image in mind for his by restoring HP through blood drinking.

Oh, I do like the vampiric..

10 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Ethilrist lets them return to the Burnt Plains of Hell regularly to feast on beings there

but this is really good as well.

[jajagappa]

6 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

but this is really good as well.

The problem I have with the vampiric, is that they will clearly become known for that (and quickly), and will really be avoided (or the Grazelanders will send out army with Yelm's backing to destroy them). 

That doesn't feel right to me. Yes, they are strange and scary, but it's not the Lunar Vampire Legion. 

[Erol of Backford]

8 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Grazelanders will send out army with Yelm's backing to destroy them

I see your point but if they don't normally attack the Grazers why would they care so much? Plus the Grazers would have to worry about the hound... a lot of loss just to eliminate the demonic horses that really don't attack you very much?

I suppose if there is a history of trouble like the trolls/Kitori and the Sun Domers then I'd agree. Actually I don't know much about the Black Horse County - Grazer long term relations... what is the best source? Thanks again Jaja.

[jajagappa]

19 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I see your point but if they don't normally attack the Grazers why would they care so much?

If you posit insatiable or vampiric beasts, what's the closest place to Black Horse County? The Grazelands. 

What would such demons imply? A threat by Darkness. What do the Grazers worship? The Sun and light. 

You've now brought a very hostile and threatening force of Darkness to the Grazers doorstep. The Grazers would respond if it was something that obvious.

19 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I don't know much about the Black Horse County

It was granted to Ethilrist at the end of his service by the Red Emperor (ca. 1590) [even though the Red Emperor really didn't have claim to it]. 

Ethilrist subsequently spent his time building Muse Roost and stocking it with the treasures won from the Underworld. 

To the west is a Forest of Beast Folk, elves, and the like. To the east is the Grazelands (and northeast is the Shaker Temple and Old Tarsh). South is the impassable Skyreach Mountains. North is Red Dragon vale.

And that's pretty much what we know until the Dragon Pass gazetteer is available.

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Ethilrist subsequently spent his time building Muse Roost and stocking it with the treasures won from the Underworld. 

So he represents a bastion of Dark Progressiveness in a land of Prudish Conservativism? Evidently the place is a seat of power until the White Bear shows up?