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Kallyr's Dragonrise heroquest


Gamesmeister

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What was the status of Orlanth's Ring prior to the Dragonrise? Did it go AWOL after the fall of Whitewall?

The Eleven Lights heroquest brings up to three new stars that emerge from Stormgate and move up the western sky towards Pole Star, from where they exit (IMO to the outer cosmos shared by Annilla, Dayzatar and possibly the dragon mystics,)

The quest led by Minaryth Purple brought forth Orlanth's Ring into the dedication rite, at a time when it had no business being visible in the sky if it adhered to its normal schedule. The questers than danced half a week of upward movement in less than half of a (rather short summer) night, following Umath's trail towards the Court of Yelm from a part of the Godtime when the stars were not visible on the Golden Sky. (The stars only emerged and established themselves after Umath had been thrown of his approach towards Yelm, according to the Copper Tablets. That makes Umath the midwife of Pole Star and the rest of the visible stars, and Stormgate their mother/parent, or their mother's/parent's womb.)

The interaction of Orlanth's Ring with the constellations is the work of Orlanth on his own conquest of the Sky, IMO one of the early deeds of the new King of the World after slaying the Evil Emperor. Orlanth's reign over the sky brought about his only significant combat victory over Chaos, too.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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12 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

What was the point of Kallyr’s dragon-related heroquesting during the Shipraising? I always presumed this was Dragonrise-related, but if not, then what was the goal? Merely something about the Dragon’s Head part of Orlanth’s Ring?

Perhaps it was but Kallyr didn't know it? No one else present would have been able to understand Orlorant's conversation with the dragonkind, would they?

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20 minutes ago, Scorus said:

Perhaps it was but Kallyr didn't know it? No one else present would have been able to understand Orlorant's conversation with the dragonkind, would they?

While Sartar Rising vol. 3 is not supposed to be canon any more, Minaryth Purple's speech (p. 50) makes it perfectly clear that in this publication, they know about the Dragon of Jarn and hope to use it against the Lunars, assuming (correctly, as it turns out) a connection between the Dragon's Head and the Dragon of Jarn and wanting to contact the Star Dragon on the otherside for more information.

MP: "Maybe this time the dragon will consume the Emperor." Yeah, that does sound like a plan, Minaryth...

Edited by Akhôrahil
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45 minutes ago, Joerg said:

What was the status of Orlanth's Ring prior to the Dragonrise? Did it go AWOL after the fall of Whitewall?

It did, didn't it (t11L p. 106, for instance)? Then the Red Cow heroquesters brought back three lost stars of it, and then when Kallyr brought back the old Ring entire, it was back to full strength, bigger than before (11 instead of 8)?

Edited by Akhôrahil
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6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

It did, didn't it (t11L p. 106, for instance)? Then the Red Cow heroquesters brought back three lost stars of it, and then when Kallyr brought back the old Ring entire, it was back to full strength, bigger than before (11 instead of 8)?

When exactly would the oriinal 7+1 stars return? Before the temple dedication rite, or as a consequence of that?

(and what questing occurs amon the orthodox Orlanthi outside of the Windstop during the Windstop?

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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6 hours ago, Joerg said:

When exactly would the oriinal 7+1 stars return? Before the temple dedication rite, or as a consequence of that?

They arrive at the same time as the questers, don't they - the whole point is that a correspondence is established between Kallyr's party and the constellation, so that they can "drag" it into the sky again in the non-standard way it moves just then. I think King of Sartar even has the exact moment when someone in the ritual realizes that Orlanth's Ring is up in the sky and calls it out?

Then post-Dragonrise, we get the Ring back to its regular pattern, I always imagined. Only oversize now.

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

(and what questing occurs amon the orthodox Orlanthi outside of the Windstop during the Windstop?

Since my campaign is in the Risklands, I imagine I will have think of that once it happens. The Windstop itself is sure to lead to a lot of confusion, when they see strange things happening without being in the middle of it. I guess it will depend on the PCs whether they do merely defensive questing (the weather is certain to be nasty, even outside the Windstop area) or attempt something bigger. 

Edited by Akhôrahil
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8 hours ago, Joerg said:

When exactly would the oriinal 7+1 stars return? Before the temple dedication rite, or as a consequence of that?

They return during the Battle of Pennel Ford right after Harrek blinds the Sun God.

GS p.38: At the same time, a deafening roll of thunder, the first heard in three years, pealed over the battlefield. Orlanth’s Ring, now comprised of eleven stars instead of eight, triumphantly appeared out of the Stormgate and rapidly climbed a third of the way up the Sky Dome. Orlanth was completely freed from his fetters and the wrathful Storm God sought vengeance upon those who had imprisoned him.

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45 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

They return during the Battle of Pennel Ford right after Harrek blinds the Sun God.

GS p.38: At the same time, a deafening roll of thunder, the first heard in three years, pealed over the battlefield. Orlanth’s Ring, now comprised of eleven stars instead of eight, triumphantly appeared out of the Stormgate and rapidly climbed a third of the way up the Sky Dome. Orlanth was completely freed from his fetters and the wrathful Storm God sought vengeance upon those who had imprisoned him.

Oh, good catch! So Orlanth’s Ring is already up and active in general for the Dragonrise, and it’s only its movement right then that is off.

Irregular, faster movement of Orlanth’s Ring seems to be an excellent omen.

But what actually happens to cause it at Pennel? It seems weird that it would merely result from the outcome in the battle - it wasn’t the outcome of any battle, but rather the closing of the last major local temple (Whitewall) that chained Orlanth, wasn’t it? Perhaps we should interpret the battlefield as becoming sacred to Orlanth in that moment?

Edited by Akhôrahil
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4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

So Orlanth’s Ring is already up and active in general for the Dragonrise, and it’s only its movement right then that is off.

Yes, Orlanth's Ring has already returned and been going regularly again (with 11 stars) for about 1.5 years by the Dragonrise.

And what's unusual with the Dragonrise is that it should have been in its two-week Underworld phase, but against the odds opened the Stormgate and rapidly completed its cycle.

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

But what actually happens to cause it at Pennel? It seems weird that it would merely result from the outcome in the battle - it wasn’t the outcome of any battle, but rather the closing of the last major local temple (Whitewall) that chained Orlanth, wasn’t it? Perhaps we should interpret the battlefield as becoming sacred to Orlanth in that moment?

Some combination of Harrek and Argrath is what happens as it occurs during the battle (not as an aftermath).

Orlanth is killed at Whitewall.  This is corresponds to the mythic event where the wicked uncles throw Orlanth into the Underworld prison and lock the doors behind (e.g. see Argrath in the the realm of the Strange Gods in the Prince of Sartar comic).

The Battle of Auroch Hills partially frees Orlanth (if you follow the New Breather rites).  He's still presumably chained in the Underworld, but he lives and you can access him via the No-wind (or whatever path you can find).

Jump ahead to the Battle of Pennel Ford where Broyan (who is an Orlanthi hero) comes together with Harrek and Argrath.

The Lunars try to destroy Harrek with a Sunspear.  He fends it off, and far away Tatius ("the Sun God" incarnation) is temporarily blinded.  Somehow this action brings the mortal and mythic worlds together.  Maybe it forces Harrek into the role of Monster Man to shrug it off?

Argrath knows how to escape from the pit of the Strange Gods, and uses the event to open the Underworld Gate.  Orlanth leaps free and thunder rolls across the battlefield.

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On 11/27/2020 at 7:45 AM, Gamesmeister said:

What information do we have, if any, about the heroquest that Kallyr Starbrow performs to create the Dragonrise?

I found this about Vistera, a short-reigned (shortest?) Feathered Horse Queen.

Vistera (born 1594, Feathered Horse Queen from 1623 to 1625). The daughter of Sorana and an unknown father, she became Feathered Horse Queen in 1623, after leading a rebellion against her sister. She took the title “With Bitter Heart” and ruthlessly avenged the deaths of her grandmother, mother, and sisters. She had pro-Lunar chiefs and priestesses murdered, allied with monsters and Tricksters, and made a terrible pact to awaken the Dragons. She died during the Dragonrise upon witnessing her schemes complete.

Has anyone else suggested "With Bitter Heart" as the ultimate mastermind of the Dragonrise?

She's an anti-Lunar martyr, a woman after my own heart, and a critical background NPC for my planned campaign.

Edited by Storm Khan
typo
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46 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

And what's unusual with the Dragonrise is that it should have been in its two-week Underworld phase, but against the odds opened the Stormgate and rapidly completed its cycle.

One week "not in the sky" phase. Two weeks in the underworld describes Shargash/Tolat/Jagrekriand. From the events, it seems that Shargash was in the sky, or otherwise its dancer entered the rite from the rising gate of the Southpath.

The Westfaring apparently takes up half of the Sacred Season Lightbringers activity. But then, does Orlanth's Ring reach Pole Star on Orlanth's Sacred Season Holy Day and disappear beyond the Sky Dome, or does it emerge to start spiraling over the middle part of Sacred Time?

There are quite a few cyclical events within Time that don't quite gel with Godtime events or sequences. Orlanth's Ring either preceding or missing the exit from the Underworld on the first day of the year is one of these...

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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1 hour ago, Storm Khan said:

she...made a terrible pact to awaken the Dragons. She died during the Dragonrise upon witnessing her schemes complete

Sounds like we've our culprit.  I wonder who else was involved in that pact...

Also, I still wonder whether the Lunar Temple was built above a sleeping dragon by simple chance, by covert influence, or was the Dragon summoned.  King of Sartar suggests the last option (p126): 

Quote

The dragon was unknown before. No one recognized it. No one knew all the dragons, of
course, but even Orlaront Dragonfriend did not know him. So he was new, brought there for
that moment by the magic of Orlanth.

But that's not conclusive, its conjecture based on the author not knowing of anyone who knew the origin of the Dragon.  It does imply it was a surprise to Orlaront, which is interesting, and makes his exile by Kallyr seem harsh.

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2 hours ago, Stephen L said:

It does imply it was a surprise to Orlaront, which is interesting, and makes his exile by Kallyr seem harsh.

After years of occupation and occasional visits by the Crimson Bat, why, indeed, wouldn't Kallyr just mumble "No comment" into the microphone and keep doing whatev's?

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1 hour ago, Storm Khan said:

why, indeed, wouldn't Kallyr just mumble "No comment" into the microphone and keep doing whatev's?

Minimally, raising the dragon resulted in not just Lunar deaths, but deaths of important Sartarites (e.g. Kangharl).  They still have kin, which means they could demand wergild and justice from Kallyr if they are going to accept her as Prince of Sartar.  Orlaront, long known as a dragonfriend, becomes a convenient scapegoat - exile him and then say to any who come, "It was not us, but him!  Seek your justice with him!"  (Also, if Kallyr did not expect the dragon, this has probably thrown off many plans - she needs a personal scapegoat as well as a political one.)

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4 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Minimally, raising the dragon resulted in not just Lunar deaths, but deaths of important Sartarites (e.g. Kangharl).  They still have kin, which means they could demand wergild and justice from Kallyr

Maybe that's technically true.  But please, those kin should really grow a pair up.  It's an <bleep bleep bleeping> war! 

How many died in past disasters (or even victories)?  Did they demand weregild from Broyan? 

By ending (for the time being) the Lunar Occupation, how many has Kallyr saved??

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16 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Orlaront, long known as a dragonfriend, becomes a convenient scapegoat

As confirmed in Jeff's post, Kallyr was completely surprised by the Dragonrise.  In my Glorantha, her reaction is shock.  Yes she wants to liberate Sartar, but witnessing the Dragonrise, she realises that she'd rather there be a Sartar to liberate, and with the powers that have been unleashed, she's not sure that they're not going destroy what she's trying to save.

I'm not sure Kallyr is one to be too worried about unpopularity of her actions, or deterred by wereguild, or fear of reprisals from her opponents.  For me she isn't scapegoating Orlaront, rather repudiating what he stands for - dragon friendship.  All the more striking, as, it would appear, Orlaront isn't involved in the Dragonrise either.  And indeed given the necessity to understand what has just happened, and what's the likely ramifications are, and Orlaront is likely to be her best source of information for this.

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4 hours ago, Stephen L said:

'm not sure Kallyr is one to be too worried about unpopularity of her actions, or deterred by wereguild, or fear of reprisals from her opponents.  For me she isn't scapegoating Orlaront, rather repudiating what he stands for - dragon friendship.  All the more striking, as, it would appear, Orlaront isn't involved in the Dragonrise either.  And indeed given the necessity to understand what has just happened, and what's the likely ramifications are, and Orlaront is likely to be her best source of information for this.

I'm not ready to assume that Orlaront wasn't involved. Vistera "made a pact to awaken the Dragons." With who or what? I think something like this would require a team (or alliance) of many powerful heroes and even calls into question whether the Inhuman King could have been involved.

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11 hours ago, Scorus said:

I'm not ready to assume that Orlaront wasn't involved. Vistera "made a pact to awaken the Dragons." With who or what?

My source is King of Sartar (p126), which at the very least, implies that Orlaront was surprised by the Dragonrise.

Quote

The dragon was unknown before. No one recognized it. No one knew all the dragons, of
course, but even Orlaront Dragonfriend did not know him. So he was new, brought there for
that moment by the magic of Orlanth.

 

13 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

assuming Argrath was behind this,

All sources are quiet on Argrath's involvement, and Argrath neither confirms nor denies his involvement.  So I guess it's up the individual GM whether he is or isn't.

My assumption is that he isn't.  It's too soon after his defeat when he tried storming the Lunar temple in Fire Season, and the Glorantha source book (p39) has him retreat to Pavis spending the rest of the year rebuilding his army.  So my guess is he's licking his wounds.  Also, in my campaign the PCs are going to be the ones who convince him to take the rekindle the flame of Sartar, so it suits my campaign that he has a Pavis focus up to this point (and his rush on the temple is just an opportunistic exploitation of his victories at Moonbroth and Pavis).  In my campaign, it's the players that awaken his interest in Sartar.  (Until they fumble the orate roll).

However, I very much suspect that Canon will always be elusive on Argrath's involvement in the Dragonrise, so if your assumption is that he is behind it, that holds.

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