Extreme Pedantry......

[Agentorange]

So then, I'm reading my RQG rulebook looking at the combat section and in  the weapon lists I see a section called unarmed attacks . And I see  Cestus ( a sort of metal boxing glove ) and Claw ( a sort of metal....claw )

Surely as these are manufactured objects used for fighting they are in fact weapons and so the person using them isn't in fact unarmed.

I'll get my coat, I know where the door is.......

Edited April 10, 2021 by Agentorange
clarification

[David Scott]

6 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

So then, I'm reading my RQG rulebook looking at the combat section and in  the weapon lists I see a section called unarmed attacks . And I see  Cestus ( a sort of metal boxing glove ) and Claw ( a sort of metal....claw )

Surely as these are manufactured objects they are in fact weapons and so the person using them isn't in fact unarmed.

That's right, that's, the table for the text on page 207 & 210. It all goes together as it includes animal claws.

Quote

Hand-to-hand: Basic unarmed attacks including fists, kicks, and grapples, as well as the specialized fighting tools of cestus and claw. These do crushing damage (for fists, kicks, and cestuses) or slashing damage (for claws). Weapon Types page 207.

and

Quote

Cestus, Heavy: These metal boxing gloves have a weight nestled within the glove for more impact. Price: 20 L.

Cestus, Light: Metal boxing gloves that depend on the impact of metal, like brass knuckles, to do damage. Price: 10 L.

Claw: A metal device that allows the user to claw like an animal. They are most used by intelligent animals wishing to improve their natural weapons, but also by humans wishing to imitate animals. Price: 25 L. Unarmed Attacks page 210.

which then ties into natural weapon in the Bestiary.

[Agentorange]

33 minutes ago, David Scott said:

which then ties into natural weapon in the Bestiary.

At risk of sounding....pedantic :-)  the whole point is that the moment you've got a weapon you're not unarmed. natural claws and teeth are ok, but a manufactured weapon which cestus and metal claws are means you're no longer unarmed....so you can't count them in the Unarmed attacks section

As a complete aside I don't seem to have any options  for smileys, emojis etc when I post. other people obviously do, have I not switched something on or ticked a box somewhere ?

[David Scott]

5 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

As a complete aside I don't seem to have any options  for smileys, emojis etc when I post. other people obviously do, have I not switched something on or ticked a box somewhere ?

Depends on the size of your screen. Use my "manual" instructions (method 2), they are easy : 

 

[French Desperate WindChild]

33 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

So then, I'm reading my RQG rulebook looking at the combat section and in  the weapon lists I see a section called unarmed attacks . And I see  Cestus ( a sort of metal boxing glove ) and Claw ( a sort of metal....claw )

Surely as these are manufactured objects used for fighting they are in fact weapons and so the person using them isn't in fact unarmed.

I'll get my coat, I know where the door is.......

remember you need at least one arm to use fist or grapple skill.

Only kick and head should be in the unarmed section

 

[Baron Wulfraed]

45 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

remember you need at least one arm to use fist or grapple skill.

Only kick and head should be in the unarmed section

 

What if my feet/shoes/boots are equipped with crampons? (Ice cleats)... And I've got a spike on top of my helmet...

 

[g33k]

Actually, I think the Claws may justify a separate weapon-skill.

Cestus is used with essentially the identical technique to unarmed punches, so same-skill.

Claws are different:  humans have no natural slashing weapons, and the method/technique for using claws is different than unarmed combat...  I feel a HR coming on...

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Claws are different:  humans have no natural slashing weapons, and the method/technique for using claws is different than unarmed combat...  I feel a HR coming on...

You apparently never were attacked by angry girls on bare skin.

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

Actually, I think the Claws may justify a separate weapon-skill.

I think this makes sense at least as an option. It will also allow characters who can sometimes grow claws - like Yinkini - to have a way to work on the combat skill even when not casting.

[Nozbat]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

You apparently never were attacked by angry girls on bare skin.

I'm just wondering what kind of women you keep company with Joerg?

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

You apparently never were attacked by angry girls on bare skin.

😆
ha-ha... but no.
I've had both human scratches, and kittycat scratches.  Kittycat are worse (though generally comparable).

Scale the claws up (lynx & larger; or metal human "Claws" worn as weapons), and it'd be no contest at all.

 

27 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think this makes sense at least as an option. It will also allow characters who can sometimes grow claws - like Yinkini - to have a way to work on the combat skill even when not casting.

This is an interesting point.

I'm willing to consider "unarmed combat" the same for Yinkini in both human & cat forms (or feline hsunchen) but frankly it's a bit wrong for the usually-simulationist RQ system, as the fighting styles (& muscle memory) are very different; but in the interest of usable rules (and not nerfing the shapeshifters) I think the same skill might be applied...

[Shiningbrow]

8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

remember you need at least one arm to use fist or grapple skill.

Only kick and head should be in the unarmed section

 

What if a Chaos creature has an arm growing out of their head/leg??

[FungusColombicus]

4 hours ago, Nozbat said:

I'm just wondering what kind of women you keep company with Joerg?

Yinkin type ?

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

What if a Chaos creature has an arm growing out of their head/leg??

the creature cannot be considered as unarmed but as it is chaos.... everything is possible

to avoid any headache (especially with an embedded arm), let's say that the unarmed category described in the rules is ok 😛

 

[Joerg]

7 hours ago, g33k said:

😆
ha-ha... but no.
I've had both human scratches, and kittycat scratches.  Kittycat are worse (though generally comparable).

Scale the claws up (lynx & larger; or metal human "Claws" worn as weapons), and it'd be no contest at all.

I wasn't commenting on the amount of damage, but on the natural skill. Cat or human, scratching with the forepaws is pretty much the same instinctive move.

Slapping someone with the flat of the hand takes some consideration.

 

Clawing and grabbing someone to get a hold are maybe more similar than punching, but what little I know about lat-sao in wing-tsun sparring decides between punch or grapple or just deflection in the same kind of forward movement of the hands.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Joerg

[soltakss]

14 hours ago, Agentorange said:

Extreme Pedantry......

You are in the right place.

14 hours ago, Agentorange said:

So then, I'm reading my RQG rulebook looking at the combat section and in  the weapon lists I see a section called unarmed attacks . And I see  Cestus ( a sort of metal boxing glove ) and Claw ( a sort of metal....claw )

Surely as these are manufactured objects used for fighting they are in fact weapons and so the person using them isn't in fact unarmed.

Yes, you are correct.

However, they use the same skills and have the same SR, so it makes sense for them being in unarmed.

In much the same way that someone using a pair of knuckledusters would use a Fist rather than having a new skill of Knuckleduster.

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

You apparently never were attacked by angry girls on bare skin.

In real life or in a dream?

But, yes, scratching in a fight and scratching with metal claws in a fight would use the same skill.