RuneQuest Starter Set Design Diary #3: The New Adventurers

[Shiningbrow]

It's really pretty! And I'm liking the new adventurers (can't wait to see the non-human write-ups!)

But I really hope this isn't the final version, and it's going to get another proof-read... I see about 4 errors just in the few paragraphs of Mago's write-up 😞

[PhilHibbs]

Mago has two different values for Spirit Combat, under Weapons it says 55%, under Magic it says 40%. If he has taken +15 as a cult skill choice, then  55% is the correct value. I can't see any other skill that might have had the +15 so I think that's it.

Also under Manipulation, it repeats his weapon skills but it says "1H Spear" instead of "Javelin, Held".

Edited April 17, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[PhilHibbs]

I have filled in an online character sheet for Mago, just as I did for all of the "iconics" in the core rules.

Mago the Fierce

The only discrepancy that I can't explain is that he appears to have six skills at +25 instead of four. I may have missed some options in character creation, maybe background, that explains this.

I say this not to pick nits, I think the lesson here is, "GMs, it's ok to be generous in character creation, don't follow the numbers too slavishly".

The six skills are Dodge, Intimidate, Sense Chaos, Track, 1H Battle Axe, and 1H Javelin.

I'm also guessing that he got +20 to Battle from background events.

My spreadsheet doesn't do derived languages, so I put in a manual adjustment to get his Esrolian up to 28 (half his Speak Heortling skill).

Edited April 17, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Mago looks fun.

We ran an entire group of "smart" Storm Bull impala riders long ago in RQ2.  The folly...   🙂

Edited April 17, 2021 by Rodney Dangerduck

[Shiningbrow]

8 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I have filled in an online character sheet for Mago, just as I did for all of the "iconics" in the core rules.

Mago the Fierce

The only discrepancy that I can't explain is that he appears to have six skills at +25 instead of four. I may have missed some options in character creation, maybe background, that explains this.

I say this not to pick nits, I think the lesson here is, "GMs, it's ok to be generous in character creation, don't follow the numbers too slavishly".

The six skills are Dodge, Intimidate, Sense Chaos, Track, 1H Battle Axe, and 1H Javelin.

I'm also guessing that he got +20 to Battle from background events.

My spreadsheet doesn't do derived languages, so I put in a manual adjustment to get his Esrolian up to 28 (half his Speak Heortling skill).

I noticed a couple of non-root 5 numbers (which, 44). So I thought maybe there's a couple of experience rolls in there?? 

[Scotty]

On 4/15/2021 at 1:05 PM, Manimati said:

Excuse me if I seem to be nitpicking, but the consequences of this ruling are huge: for example, this would mean that a Seven Mothers cultist can summon earth, darkness, water, fire and of course moon elementals only using only common rune magic, without having to learn specific summon spells. This makes 7 Mothers cultists the masters of elemental versatility, right out of the box !

Seven Mothers cultists can summon elementals right out of the box already, page RQG page 303:

Quote

Summon Darkness/Earth/Fire/Water Elemental (small only), Summon Lune (any size).

There is no change to the rules.

[PhilHibbs]

7 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I noticed a couple of non-root 5 numbers (which, 44). So I thought maybe there's a couple of experience rolls in there?? 

Dodge and jump are DEX multiples, and languages are derived from other languages.

[Shiningbrow]

4 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Dodge and jump are DEX multiples, and languages are derived from other languages.

D'oh! You're right (obviously).

TBH, I notice the numbers rather than the skills they were put to.

[Jason D]

23 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Mago has two different values for Spirit Combat, under Weapons it says 55%, under Magic it says 40%. If he has taken +15 as a cult skill choice, then  55% is the correct value. I can't see any other skill that might have had the +15 so I think that's it.

That was an inadvertent copy/paste error from moving characters over from the old format to the new. It's been fixed in the original file and will go to print corrected. 

23 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Also under Manipulation, it repeats his weapon skills but it says "1H Spear" instead of "Javelin, Held".

1H Spear is the weapon category. 

Javelin, short spear, and lance are all in that category. 

 

[Jason D]

21 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I say this not to pick nits, I think the lesson here is, "GMs, it's ok to be generous in character creation, don't follow the numbers too slavishly".

I don't have his character creation worksheet any more (my piles of paper go into the recycling bin periodically) but I didn't bend the rules for any of the pregens. If there are too many skills, it is inadvertent, not fudging. 

[Akhôrahil]

6 hours ago, Scotty said:

Seven Mothers cultists can summon elementals right out of the box already, page RQG page 303:

I believe the argument is that if they're castable with Summon Cult Spirit, you don't need to learn the individual Summon Elemental spells.

(Apart from also being castable with a wider assortment of runes.)

[PhilHibbs]

On 4/18/2021 at 4:44 PM, Jason D said:

1H Spear is the weapon category. 

Javelin, short spear, and lance are all in that category. 

You don't have skills in categories. If you have a 1H Javelin skill, then you can use HALF that skill for 1H Short Spear which is in the same category. Unless this is different in the Starter Set rules! Still, no reason for them to be different.

Edited April 28, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[Jokum]

On 4/18/2021 at 7:08 PM, Akhôrahil said:

I believe the argument is that if they're castable with Summon Cult Spirit, you don't need to learn the individual Summon Elemental spells.

(Apart from also being castable with a wider assortment of runes.)

It seems like the most common of cult spirits are elementals, while the variety of all cult spirits is much wider(p.273: ...petty deities, elementals, guardians, spirits of worshippers and other such entities). Bestiary gives at least two of non-elemental -cult spirits.

I quess the list would be long If all cult spirits were listed from all the cults.

There's somewhat of overlapping with the two spells. I noticed this a little time ago concerning Daka Fal: what is the difference between summon ancestor and summon cult spirit for them?

Might this whole cult spirit question be worth it's own thread?

Edited April 28, 2021 by Jokum

[metcalph]

42 minutes ago, Jokum said:

There's somewhat of overlapping with the two spells. I noticed this a little time ago concerning Daka Fal: what is the difference between summon ancestor and summon cult spirit for them?

Ancestors aren't cult spirits, they're management

[Akhôrahil]

19 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Ancestors aren't cult spirits, they're management

It’s an interesting question what - if anything - makes up DF Cult Spirits, though. It’s not obvious.

[Jokum]

51 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

It’s an interesting question what - if anything - makes up DF Cult Spirits, though. It’s not obvious.

Yes, the rule book also says the greater the god the greater the variety. Small cult would have less.

Althought, DF cult spirits could be family specific. Maybe burialground or necropolis guardians, servants etc.? Or maybe the greater spirits could be some of the siblings of Fleshman or their children?

[Lordabdul]

On 4/18/2021 at 9:08 AM, Akhôrahil said:

I believe the argument is that if they're castable with Summon Cult Spirit, you don't need to learn the individual Summon Elemental spells.

I have struggled to understand the differences between these spells too and my conclusion so far is:

• "Summon Cult Spirit" just summons any random cult spirit. It could be an elemental, it could be an animal spirit, it could be a priest from a few generations ago, a hero from the Second Age, or whatever else the GM thinks would be funny, impressive, interesting, or whatever.
• "Summon Elemental" specifically gets you an elemental, and eliminates the uncertainty of the generic spell. Similarly specialized spells summon specific spirits (amazing alliteration batman!). Under this interpretation, it means that Chalana Arroy would have a specific "Summon Healing Spirit" spell in addition to the common "Summon Cult Spirit" spell (and this specific version would be a 1-point spell, as told in RQG p342).

The GM can have fun with the generic summoning spell, and should feel free to get creative with the rules. For instance, the GM may ask for a Worship or Cult Lore skill roll before summoning, along with a few extra seconds or minutes of summoning time, in case the player wants to pick and choose what kind of spirit they'll get (instead of leaving that up to the GM) without having access to the corresponding specialized spell.

[Akhôrahil]

7 hours ago, lordabdul said:

 

• "Summon Cult Spirit" just summons any random cult spirit. It could be an elemental, it could be an animal spirit, it could be a priest from a few generations ago, a hero from the Second Age, or whatever else the GM thinks would be funny, impressive, interesting, or whatever.

My reading of RAW is that the caster gets pick the type, but yours is probably the MGF way of playing it.

[Lordabdul]

9 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

My reading of RAW is that the caster gets pick the type

Which part of the text makes you lean that way?

[French Desperate WindChild]

7 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Which part of the text makes you lean that way?

well you know my english but: "With this spell, the caster asks the deity to send a cult spirit of some type."

some type ==> "some" defined by the caster, no random type

 

Imagine: you want to summon a sylph to fly,  and you get randomly a spirit of reprisal. that would not be fine. I see the spell cast as "Please Orlanth send me a sylph to help me"

[Lordabdul]

8 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

well you know my english but: "With this spell, the caster asks the deity to send a cult spirit of some type."

Hah interesting, the wording in RBoM is different:

Quote

This spell lets the caster ask their deity to send a cult spirit
to their aid. The size of the spirit depends on the number of
Rune points stacked for the spell. As a rule, greater deities
have more sizes and types of cult spirits.

 

[French Desperate WindChild]

i did not notice that. An interesting point:

in the core rules: [summon cult spirit] (with the "some" in the description) and in rbom: [summon (cult spirit)] what do the parenthesis means ? the type maybe)

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

Which part of the text makes you lean that way?

"With this spell, the caster asks the deity to send a cult spirit of some type."

"For example, Chalana Arroy cultists can use this spell to summon a healing spirit with a 1-point variant of this spell, and Engizi cultists can use a 2-point variant of this spell to summon a naiad of the Creekstream River."

[Lordabdul]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

For example, Chalana Arroy cultists

This comes just after "Summon Elemental is a specific example of this spell but many other variations exist. For example, Chalana Arroy cultists..." so my reading was that "Summon Healing Spirit" was another example of a "specific spell" just like "Summon Elemental", i.e. a separate spell you have to take and sacrifice POW for.  But the rules are vague enough that you can read it both ways indeed. I think it works out either way as long as the GM is consistent about what is an actual spell and what is just a specialization of the same spell, so that players don't sacrifice POW for something they already have. In this particular reading, I would give "Summon Elemental" as common magic, for instance, so you never need to "buy" it.

[PhilHibbs]

9 hours ago, lordabdul said:

In this particular reading, I would give "Summon Elemental" as common magic, for instance, so you never need to "buy" it.

That makes no sense as it is listed as a cult spell that you can take, and several pregens have done so.