Nochet + criminal organisations

[Agentorange]

Just ran a search on the search box but drew a blank, what criminal organisations exist in Nochet ?  I'm going to just start working through the results for Nochet, but thats a lot of results, so if some one knows of a thread or  article please point me in the right direction......

[soltakss]

Nochet would have a lot of crime families.

In my opinion, they might worship common thief deities, but many of the families would worship their own thief spirit, maybe a founder or ancestor, maybe just another spirit that they lucked into. Some might even have several spirit patrons. Their worship would be as a very minor cult, or perhaps as a Spirit Cult, granting one Runespell and maybe teaching specialised Spirit Magic. Lanbril and Eurmal the Thief would be commonly worshipped.

I don't know of any sources, offhand.

[metcalph]

46 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

Just ran a search on the search box but drew a blank, what criminal organisations exist in Nochet ?  I'm going to just start working through the results for Nochet, but thats a lot of results, so if some one knows of a thread or  article please point me in the right direction......

Lanbril (2000 people) split into several familes.

Krarsht.

Seseine (~500 at the most)

Vadeli (500)

Opium dealers from Teshnos and Kralorela.

Wolf Pirates.

 

[Agentorange]

10 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Lanbril (2000 people) split into several familes.

Krarsht.

Seseine (~500 at the most)

Vadeli (500)

Opium dealers from Teshnos and Kralorela.

Wolf Pirates.

 

Ah, good stuff, do you have a source I can go off and read ?

 

[metcalph]

5 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

Ah, good stuff, do you have a source I can go off and read ?

 

References for the figures were given in the other thread.  

[Agentorange]

2 minutes ago, metcalph said:

References for the figures were given in the other thread.  

Thank you, Well of daliath for both then, i shall grab a cold drink and do some reading.....

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, Agentorange said:

Just ran a search on the search box but drew a blank, what criminal organisations exist in Nochet ?  I'm going to just start working through the results for Nochet, but thats a lot of results, so if some one knows of a thread or  article please point me in the right direction......

There's nothing explicitly published, and others have referenced the cult figures above in the thread.

Bear in mind that ALL the great houses of Nochet function along the lines of mafia-style families led by their respective Grandmothers.  Their extended network of clients include what you might term as criminal gangs or families who help enforce "tribute" (i.e. protection rackets), gather information, target their rivals, engage in underhanded deals, etc. The Queen of Nochet has to balance these out, and keep herself well informed through her own agents (even against rival members of her own house).  There are a lot of "turf" wars in Nochet!

Whether the great houses encourage or repress "independent" criminal organizations depends on what such gangs offer them in return.

The Sartarite clans that have settled in Nochet since the Opening (and particularly since 1602) and live primarily in the Sarli district have shifted their cattle-raiding instincts into urban gang-style activities.  They defend their little neighborhoods and jockey for position amidst the backdrop of the larger city.  

When building out the map and associated index, I described a few thief gangs, so if you are looking for specifics let me know.

[Joerg]

The games of the houses was what I wanted to forward for criminal activity, too. Ernalda is a part-time underworld goddess, after all...

The Sarli district has a huge complement of Sartarite families in exile, probably scheming and plotting on the same level as local grandmothers or guilds.

There is also a troll warren in town, with at the very least shady dealings.

I wonder how safe Nochet is. How many corpses are brought into the mortuary by the patrols on a daily basis, or fished out of the sewers or the harbor? How many people go missing (in another way than waking up aboard a ship Opened to a rather distant port)?

[Qizilbashwoman]

8 hours ago, metcalph said:

Lanbril (2000 people) split into several familes.

Krarsht.

Seseine (~500 at the most)

Vadeli (500)

If Nochet doesn't have a Sta Muerta equivalent someone is doing a bad job at Glorantha

If you aren't familiar, she's a death god worshipped in North America primarily by people of Mexican origin, both in Mexico and in the Diaspora, and she's 100% not limited to one ethnic group (or to gangsters). She's a continuation of Mictēcacihuātl (IPA: mik.teː.ka.ˈsi.waːt͡ɬ]) in the same way that in the Near East, Elijah, Saint George and al-Khidr are of older storm gods.

she is death, but she also brings wealth and fertility. this 100% needs to be a thing OUTSIDE of the Earth deities that exist. Imagine a Krarsht cult cosplaying as the female Lanbril 'Sta Muerte' figure. (Sta Muerte was originally a male figure, the "grim reaper", so I was thinking Lanbril.) Seseine appropriating the imagery. official priesthoods of Earth Deities trying to crack down on them. a pious version of Earth Deities counter-riffing off of the female Lanbril's popularity.

My gods, the shenanigans

Edited June 18, 2022 by Qizilbashwoman

[Bill the barbarian]

Posted this in the other thread... it makes more sense here. Oops!

 

Thanks for the topic @Agentorange. I am really beginning to like the idea and am planning the Godmother movies, parts one to three! Look out Mario Puzo!

Edited June 18, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[Qizilbashwoman]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

There is also a troll warren in town, with at the very least shady dealings.

Argan Argar's Sunglass Hut's overwhelming dominance here suggests the shadiness of the dealings is much lower than elsewhere

[Joerg]

10 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Argan Argar's Sunglass Hut's overwhelming dominance here suggests the shadiness of the dealings is much lower than elsewhere

Argan Argar has "Summon Shade", which means that "shady dealings" doesn't have any negative connotations among AA merchants.

There is of course the Bolg exchange rate currency hustle...

[Qizilbashwoman]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Argan Argar has "Summon Shade", which means that "shady dealings" doesn't have any negative connotations among AA merchants.

There is of course the Bolg exchange rate currency hustle...

i was just thinking about how "Krarsht and Seseine worshippers" and "Argan Argar trolls" don't really belong in the same category

[svensson]

Lanbril and the Black Fang make good examples of criminal organizations that have enough mystical power to engender spells for themselves, kind of a 'regimental wyter' for a criminal gang. For that matter, there's Eurmal and Orlanth... both have Thief aspects.

And Nochet is a large enough city with enough wealth [because 'large' and 'wealthy' are NOT the same thing] to support several gangs or conspiracies with enough followers to enable some kind of magical power. If you were feeling REALLY ambitious, you could even try to cobble together some Sorcery spells for them... that has the benefit of not requiring POW from a large group of worshipers. Because 'large group' and 'potential snitches' ARE the same thing 😁

As for the legal authorities, that gets more complicated. Nochet is the capital and chief city of the Earth Queendoms of Esrolia. Logically, their beliefs would take precedence over others. Asrelia, Keeper of the Wealth of the Earth, would naturally have an interest in preventing thievery, as would Issaries and Argan Argar.

I suppose that Humakti could run a pretty profitable mercenary guards business that could patrol the streets for obvious crime, but I definitely don't see these as the guys who could run an investigation. They're more likely to spot pickpockets and burglars.

Speaking of Uz [and taking a page from Pavis' book], I could see groups in the city paying a night watch of trollkin in certain districts, but I doubt that even a couple of Uz clans would want to devote their entire stock of enlos to patrolling the streets. Remember, to the Uz, trollkin/enlos are an abomination, but they're also a resource to be exploited and a food source. And no Uz will willingly part with a food source if they can find a way to avoid it. I do see Nochet having a Shadow Quarter or Uz District... There is a long history of Esrolia and Shadow Plateau cooperating and both are matriarchies, there's more common ground than you might see at first look.

Edited June 19, 2022 by svensson

[Joerg]

Troll cuisine in Nochet:

Trollkin probably are only ritual food or a food reserve in a city that has thousands of humans and pigs roaming the streets. Renting them out for a steady stream of foodstuff, without having to feed them/keeping them from feeding on oour possessions is another bonus.

Keeping giant arthropods in the city might be troublesome. Neighbors may react hysterically when these escape to feed on stuff in the neighborhood, like pets or little children.

Trolls will delight in providing clandestine funerary services, for instance. Including double proof where the victim is eaten by trollkin who then are eaten by hteir owners. The pigs in Nochet may provide the same kind of service, but those aren't as good at dealing with the bones.

Trollkin may be hired for latrine duty. The stupid humans feed the trollkin and pay for the privilege... Demolition work may be another culinary business for the dark people.

Few crocodiles will survive long inside the sewers...

[Qizilbashwoman]

25 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Demolition work may be another culinary business for the dark people.

Given the very different situation for Uz in Esrolia's capital, where your trollkin are not going to be released to be hunted and where Argan Argar is boss, smart enlo would likely be employed, and not just as laborers. Their ability to read and write would be very useful in commerce and in bureaucracy for the Uz. They could also be used in militia.

3 hours ago, svensson said:

I suppose that Humakti could run a pretty profitable mercenary guards business

Historically, policing didn't exist in any way that we understand it; guards did. And trained enlo could make excellent guards for a community that can pay. There's a lot more smart enlo then there are Humakti!

[svensson]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Given the very different situation for Uz in Esrolia's capital, where your trollkin are not going to be released to be hunted and where Argan Argar is boss, smart enlo would likely be employed, and not just as laborers. Their ability to read and write would be very useful in commerce and in bureaucracy for the Uz. They could also be used in militia.

Historically, policing didn't exist in any way that we understand it; guards did. And trained enlo could make excellent guards for a community that can pay. There's a lot more smart enlo then there are Humakti!

Enlo tend to have very low IQ and POW [only 2d6 each], making them kind of stupid and weak-willed. These enlo are usually categorized as 'worker' and 'food' by their uzdo masters. The ones you want for guard duty are the top 15%... the values and warrior /hunters[IQ and POW above 10]. These are also the ones that are prized by the Argan Argar cult because they're capable of independent decision-making [they're less terrified of their bosses]. There's a lot of demand for that 15% of capable enlo.

As for enlo in the Humakt cult, I would think that the matriarchs of an Uz clan would think three times before allowing enlo to initiate into an outsider cult. For one thing, it gives the enlo too many ideas about personal capability and self-worth, and that is definitely against the best interests of the uzuz and uzdo that are running the show. And that's not even getting into enlo getting weapons training outside clan control!

I do agree with you about Humakti being employed as guards or patrols though. They're watchmen, not policemen. All in all, I see the maintenance of public order in Nochet to be rather similar to ancient Rome... when in doubt, hire your own muscle.

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, svensson said:

As for the legal authorities, that gets more complicated. Nochet is the capital and chief city of the Earth Queendoms of Esrolia. Logically, their beliefs would take precedence over others. Asrelia, Keeper of the Wealth of the Earth, would naturally have an interest in preventing thievery, as would Issaries and Argan Argar.

I suppose that Humakti could run a pretty profitable mercenary guards business that could patrol the streets for obvious crime, but I definitely don't see these as the guys who could run an investigation. They're more likely to spot pickpockets and burglars.

Really no "legal authorities" in Nochet (or Esrolia).  There are militia with certain responsibilities (e.g. wall watch), but little beyond that.  It's up to each house (e.g. clan) to protect their own whether hiring guards, paying protection money to the Great Houses to aid them, or gaining their own client houses to serve that role.

The houses would hire Humakti or Yelmalions or other warrior cults to serve as guards, assuming they trust them.  They might patrol local neighborhoods to keep a watch out against rival gangs/houses or thieves, but no "policing" as such.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Trollkin may be hired for latrine duty.

In a city of 100k, don't forget the nighttime street and sewer cleaning.  Ideal for gangs of trollkin under the close watch of their AA lords.

[Manunancy]

5 hours ago, svensson said:

Lanbril and the Black Fang make good examples of criminal organizations that have enough mystical power to engender spells for themselves, kind of a 'regimental wyter' for a criminal gang. For that matter, there's Eurmal and Orlanth... both have Thief aspects.

And Nochet is a large enough city with enough wealth [because 'large' and 'wealthy' are NOT the same thing] to support several gangs or conspiracies with enough followers to enable some kind of magical power. If you were feeling REALLY ambitious, you could even try to cobble together some Sorcery spells for them... that has the benefit of not requiring POW from a large group of worshipers. Because 'large group' and 'potential snitches' ARE the same thing 😁

I'd think a succesful thief cult is likely to be one who has some nasty sprits of reprisals to deal with snitches - if you are forced to initiate to the cult (rather than merely being a lay member) to join the gang, ratting them out ot the autorithies will certainly count as apostasy and bring whatever spirit of reprisal they have on your head. Sorcery can be more convenient but won't bring that sort of protection

[svensson]

2 hours ago, Manunancy said:

I'd think a succesful thief cult is likely to be one who has some nasty sprits of reprisals to deal with snitches - if you are forced to initiate to the cult (rather than merely being a lay member) to join the gang, ratting them out ot the autorithies will certainly count as apostasy and bring whatever spirit of reprisal they have on your head. Sorcery can be more convenient but won't bring that sort of protection

Well, the trick with sorcery is that the average mook isn't getting access to the grimoire. If a gang member proves themselves to be an 'earner' and both smart and clever, THEN they might get access to the magical secrets.

[svensson]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Really no "legal authorities" in Nochet (or Esrolia).  There are militia with certain responsibilities (e.g. wall watch), but little beyond that.  It's up to each house (e.g. clan) to protect their own whether hiring guards, paying protection money to the Great Houses to aid them, or gaining their own client houses to serve that role.

The houses would hire Humakti or Yelmalions or other warrior cults to serve as guards, assuming they trust them.  They might patrol local neighborhoods to keep a watch out against rival gangs/houses or thieves, but no "policing" as such.

In a city of 100k, don't forget the nighttime street and sewer cleaning.  Ideal for gangs of trollkin under the close watch of their AA lords.

All of this is sort of what I was getting at.... Treat Nochet like ancient Rome: a million people jammed inside the walls and stacked like cordwood. There isn't any policing as we know the term. There are hired thugs who protect homes, streets, or districts to put the beat down on anyone who isn't supposed to be there after dark.

Undoubtedly there is some kind of 'Mother of Public Order' or some such who is responsible for crime and fire services, but they don't have a whole lot of power. But the 'Grain Mother' in charge of getting enough food into the city sure as Hell does.

[g33k]

46 minutes ago, svensson said:

... Undoubtedly there is some kind of 'Mother of Public Order' or some such who is responsible for crime and fire services ...

Actually, there is some doubt about such a role...  😉

 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

Undoubtedly there is some kind of 'Mother of Public Order' or some such who is responsible for crime and fire services, but they don't have a whole lot of power. But the 'Grain Mother' in charge of getting enough food into the city sure as Hell does.

But I actually don't think this is the case.  The Queen of Nochet, the Great Houses and the Earth temples all receive tribute from the Esrolian estates around the city, and are responsible for blessing those crops.  The Asrelians at the granaries are responsible for storing and preserving the food for subsequent distribution.

But it's the interaction between the Great Houses and the Queen which drives day-to-day life.  

As MOB has described it, the Grandmothers of these Great Houses are like a cross between bedouin and mafia leaders.  There is no single "Mother of Public Order", but there are multiple temples to Ernalda and Esrola throughout the city.

[Bill the barbarian]

On 6/18/2022 at 1:33 PM, Bill the barbarian said:

Thanks for the topic @Agentorange. I am really beginning to like the idea and am planning the Godmother movies, parts one to three! Look out Mario Puzo!

12 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

As MOB has described it, the Grandmothers of these Great Houses are like a cross between bedouin and mafia leaders.  There is no single "Mother of Public Order", but there are multiple temples to Ernalda and Esrola throughout the city.

Ignored but still correct, I love it!

😜

Edited June 20, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[Darius West]

On 6/18/2022 at 8:25 PM, Agentorange said:

Just ran a search on the search box but drew a blank, what criminal organisations exist in Nochet ?  I'm going to just start working through the results for Nochet, but thats a lot of results, so if some one knows of a thread or  article please point me in the right direction......

Nochet is a hotbed of Lanbril activity according to what I have read, with multiple competing Lanbril families controlling different districts, and the cult grows as the city grows.  They operate very much like the armed night gangs of ancient Rome.  No doubt there are other criminal organizations in such a large population, but Nochet is not well organized, and such law as there is will be mercenary warriors paid for by the matriarchs of the noble families, who are unlikely to be impartial arbiters of the law.