The Illuminated Munchkin Challenge

[Darius West]

The Aim:  Create the most game breaking RQ character possible.

The Rules:  Your character starts as an illuminate.  They can join any cult, provided they meet the requirements for initiation.  They have 15 in every stat, 3 RP, and can be of any RQG background.  The year is 1625 of the 3rd Age, so only cults from the 3rd Age apply.  They can learn 50% in any skill they can gain access to each year.  They gain 2 POW every year.  If they can gain access to powers that increase their power gain or their access to skills, then they may use them as well.

The Question:  What cults do you join in what order to make the most heinously OP character?  What Rune Spells, Sorcery or Shamanism do you exploit and how?

The Titles to be Awarded :  Biggest Meataxe (for the most egregious combat wombat build in the fewest steps).  Disruptor (for the most egregiously ridiculous reality breaking effect in the fewest steps).  City Killer (for the worst Area of Effect spell abuse).  God Learner (for the most brilliantly devious abuse of the rules as they stand).

The Purpose: Some people don't think Illumination is over powered.  Given that illumination lets you join any cult, and ignore every cult restriction (assuming you don't get caught doing so by pesky fellow cultists who out you as an illuminate), including spirits of retribution, let's see exactly how much damage we can do, and how quickly we can do it?                      

[davecake]

The most ridiculous combat character doesn’t even require Illumination, IMO. it’s pretty hard to go past a Mastakos worshipper who has a friend who is a Maran Gor cultist. Command Dinosaur and a few points of Extension, and it’s pretty easy to get a dinosaur to hold still long enough for you to cast Meld Form and gain the ability to turn into your chosen dinosaur. 
And the Maran Gor can trivially kill a city. Shake Earth just needs a bunch of magic points, it’s exponential in area of effect. 
None of this has much to do with Illumination.

Though if you want a cool Illuminated magician that is probably the best magician in the game practically available - Irripi Ontor (already like Lhankor May but with devastating combat magic like Mindblast), go for sorcery and learn no spirit magic yourself to maximise Free INT, when you become a Sage and get an allied spirit, get that to learn all the spirit magic you need. Once you become Illuminated, join the Red Goddess cult, and learn Red Goddess magic (which also uses your maxed out Free INT). You also have the option of learning Cyclic INT on Full Moon days, and casting huge duration sorcery spells. Now join Jakaleel and become a shaman. 
And this is all stuff that the cults themselves don’t even object too. In fact, it’s basically just a few steps on the road towards becoming a Major Classes Magician from the Lunar College of Magic. Join Deezola and get some good elementals and healing (Heal Body) maybe?

 

[Ludo Bagman]

I suppose that the characters should start as 21 years old as in the usual character creation rules – otherwise immortal or long-lived species could start as century old rune level characters.

[Joerg]

11 hours ago, Ludo Bagman said:

I suppose that the characters should start as 21 years old as in the usual character creation rules – otherwise immortal or long-lived species could start as century old rune level characters.

The equivalent of a 21 years-old, as for some immortals (like Brithini) that is more like early childhood.

Game balance (a noble goal rarely implemented in RQG) can be achieved by these characters excelling in a few areas extremely unlikely to be of any practical use in the game. Customs and lore irrelevant outside of their native culture, skills determining their social status inside that culture.

 

[Shiningbrow]

15 hours ago, davecake said:

Though if you want a cool Illuminated magician that is probably the best magician in the game practically available - Irripi Ontor (already like Lhankor May but with devastating combat magic like Mindblast), go for sorcery and learn no spirit magic yourself to maximise Free INT, when you become a Sage and get an allied spirit, get that to learn all the spirit magic you need. Once you become Illuminated, join the Red Goddess cult, and learn Red Goddess magic (which also uses your maxed out Free INT). You also have the option of learning Cyclic INT on Full Moon days, and casting huge duration sorcery spells. Now join Jakaleel and become a shaman. 
And this is all stuff that the cults themselves don’t even object too. In fact, it’s basically just a few steps on the road towards becoming a Major Classes Magician from the Lunar College of Magic. Join Deezola and get some good elementals and healing (Heal Body) maybe?

Don't forget to double your INT with a good enhancement Rune Spell (like you can with STR or CHA).

However, well within the bounds of the rules (rather than having to force the rules, or include Heroquests) - stand before a congregation of sorcerers** (like a full temple's worth - IOs would clearly apply), and Lie (Eurmal-like) that your god has demanded that an artefact of great proportions needs to be made, and everyone needs to put their POW into it - that 'it' being the Enhance INT spell... so, can you end up with an object with an enchantment of 100+ points of Intensity. Since you're an IO, you should have easy access to (well, any spell really, but...) Moonfire... (note, Create Fissure and Blast Earth are Instant spells, so can't be Extended... Moonfire could last for days (or years... or decades.....although, it is Active (but, again, the rules allow you to do your own thing with sorcery, such as making up your own spells)).

 

(**Note - that's if it's ruled they all need to know the spell to contribute to it. If not, then just use your imagination on how many you can get once you've convinced the highest of high priests (or the Lunar Emperor himself))

Your Enhanced INT of (pick a number) obviously also allows you to affect all your other spells as well.

So, to address directly @Darius West's challenging question - What cults do you join in what order to make the most heinously OP character? - the answer is "Eurmal", and probably Irripi Ontor (as @davecake has said above!) Two steps - finished! (the sad thing is, it's actually probably quite easy to do this...)

Edited October 7, 2023 by Shiningbrow

[radmonger]

38 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

the sad thing is, it's actually probably quite easy to do this

Well, what was the elapsed time between the founding of the temple of all tricksters and the sinking of Slontos?

[Joerg]

Thanatar has not received its regularly published RQG treatment yet, otherwise it is very hard not to love the Munchkin aspects of this cult with regard to access to rune magic. The Cult of the Bloody Tusk on the side, with a similar limit-breaking spirit zoo mechanic, a full shaman, and maybe something like Arkat's career in cults he joined, the troll part made easier by joining the Nightcult and undergoing the Kyger Litor adoption in troll shape.

INT 15 sort of limits usability as a sorcerer, even with enhance INT shenanigans and divine gifts mentioned above. Getting to choose a chaos feature is not a thing, but you could "funnel" characters through repeated applications of Chaos Gift until one or two end up as sorcerer material.

Any munchkin worth their loaded dice would create an ogre character rather than this above average human. Inside this challenge, possibly a subpar ogre character with all stats at 15 for the better species max.

[David Scott]

19 hours ago, Darius West said:

Given that illumination lets you join any cult, and ignore every cult restriction (assuming you don't get caught doing so by pesky fellow cultists who out you as an illuminate), including spirits of retribution,

Note that these are not now automatic illumination abilities. of the 8 abilities, everyone gets the first most get 2 & 3, then they start getting rarer. Power to Ignore Cult Restrictions is number 6, and Immunity to Spirits of Reprisal is number 7. (from the upcoming Nysalor cult). It's a rare individual that gets all 8 (and maybe some unique ones too)

[Darius West]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

Note that these are not now automatic illumination abilities. of the 8 abilities, everyone gets the first most get 2 & 3, then they start getting rarer. Power to Ignore Cult Restrictions is number 6, and Immunity to Spirits of Reprisal is number 7. (from the upcoming Nysalor cult). It's a rare individual that gets all 8 (and maybe some unique ones too)

That is actually good to hear.  If you don't mind me asking, how do you obtain the powers after illumination?  I would imagine that 6 and 7 would be extremely coveted for any potential spy (and I like running intrigue scenarios).

[David Scott]

14 minutes ago, Darius West said:

That is actually good to hear.  If you don't mind me asking, how do you obtain the powers after illumination?  I would imagine that 6 and 7 would be extremely coveted for any potential spy (and I like running intrigue scenarios).

You get the first one automatically, and there will be examples on how to expand an adventurer's illumination, it's mostly based on their teachers. Suffice to say, to get all of the listed one may take years.

[Darius West]

20 minutes ago, David Scott said:

You get the first one automatically, and there will be examples on how to expand an adventurer's illumination, it's mostly based on their teachers. Suffice to say, to get all of the listed one may take years.

Fair enough, so the player should start their character at age 21 with 1 cult but then gets illuminated up to steps 6 and 7 by age 28 then?  Assuming one illumination power per year? 

[Darius West]

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

So, to address directly @Darius West's challenging question - What cults do you join in what order to make the most heinously OP character? - the answer is "Eurmal", and probably Irripi Ontor (as @davecake has said above!) Two steps - finished! (the sad thing is, it's actually probably quite easy to do this...)

Would you care to discuss which Rune Magics from Eurmal and Irripi Ontor you think would synergize the best?

[Richard S.]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

You get the first one automatically, and there will be examples on how to expand an adventurer's illumination, it's mostly based on their teachers. Suffice to say, to get all of the listed one may take years.

I like this method. Both since it lets GMs introduce new powers for different teachers or schools of illumination, and because it gives some feeling of progression to illumination beyond just "well you've got it".

Edited October 7, 2023 by Richard S.

[David Scott]

36 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Fair enough, so the player should start their character at age 21 with 1 cult but then gets illuminated up to steps 6 and 7 by age 28 then?  Assuming one illumination power per year? 

One a year is not unreasonable assuming their illumination ability (magical skill category) is high enough.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

One a year is not unreasonable assuming their illumination ability (magical skill category) is high enough.

This begs the question of just how many riddlers are there?  In our campaigns, riddlers are extremely rare, and those few PCs who have a Illumination ability have it in the single digits.  (not counting magical bonus)

Maybe we are wrong, cause I've seen much other material, including from Andrew, where the Illumination ability is well above 50%.  Given that you have to make the skill to "answer" the riddle, this implies that those PCs have heard, very roughly order of magnitude, a hundred riddles in their life.  That seems a lot???

[David Scott]

23 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

This begs the question of just how many riddlers are there?  In our campaigns, riddlers are extremely rare, and those few PCs who have a Illumination ability have it in the single digits.  (not counting magical bonus)

We are mini-maxing, so there's one on every street corner. However, many Lunar provinces have mystic schools that teach it, and almost certainly illuminated lunar Rune levels can teach it - the ability to teach illumination is the eighth ability. The Mythology Book will answer some of these questions.

23 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Maybe we are wrong, cause I've seen much other material, including from Andrew, where the Illumination ability is well above 50%.  Given that you have to make the skill to "answer" the riddle, this implies that those PCs have heard, very roughly order of magnitude, a hundred riddles in their life.  That seems a lot???

It follows the same rules as illumination in CoT, so to answer a riddle you use the corresponding skill, if you succeed it increases your illumination ability. You only roll your illumination ability in specific circumstances. 

Note that riddles are not the only path to illumination, you can train the Illumination ability, certain magics can increase the ability and you can augment your attempts at illumination.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

47 minutes ago, David Scott said:

It follows the same rules as illumination in CoT, so to answer a riddle you use the corresponding skill, if you succeed it increases your illumination ability.

Understood.  So, (ignoring Magical bonus) to get to, say, 70% Illumination, you succeeded in 70 different skills.  Given a very very rough 50% average skill level, (probably a high estimate!) that's 140 riddles.  If we assume the PC started at 21 and is now 28 years old, that's 20 riddles a year, roughly one every two weeks.  The math will vary depending on your campaigns.

[Malin]

9 hours ago, David Scott said:

Note that these are not now automatic illumination abilities. of the 8 abilities, everyone gets the first most get 2 & 3, then they start getting rarer.

It's late and I'm tired, where can this list mot easily be found please?

[Jens]

2 hours ago, Malin said:

It's late and I'm tired, where can this list mot easily be found please?

There’s a 6 point list in Cults of Terror, Cults Compendium, and Dorastor: Land of Doom. I’m guessing the 8 point list will be coming next week in the Mythology book, based on @David Scott’s last comment. 

[Shiningbrow]

16 hours ago, Darius West said:

Would you care to discuss which Rune Magics from Eurmal and Irripi Ontor you think would synergize the best?

No need for synergy - nor most Rune Magic.

Eurmal's Lie is OP in the right situations - cos there's no resistance rolls.

 

Irripi Ontor because of the easier access to various magics - including (and especially) Enhance INT in sorcery. Lie to the heads of the cult (perhaps in the middle of congregation, so that you've got a whole bunch of people hearing it, so that they believe they need to make a huge arse enchantment of Enhance INT... should be able to get at least 100 points worth of Intensity out of it - if not many many more (thousands??)

If necessary, drop another Lie for the MPs to cast it. Now, just imagine what 100+ points of Free INT can do to either basic sorcery or Lunar Magics.

 

(One could also Lie oneself a few very high powered spirits this way - for the MPs and additional spells).

And, don't forget that the rules tell you to go munchkinney in creating your spells! Combining Moon and Fire is pretty to watch from a distance, I'd suggest also that Earth and Fire would be horrific as well - effectively lava. As mentioned above, the advantage over Maran Gor's Rune Magic is the duration.

Or, Rogue Wave in the Mirrorsea around Nochet??

 

Sorcery is very powerful when it's being abused!

[Darius West]

I am surprised that nobody is suggesting Lanbril and Thanatar in combination.  I mean, (consume book) "Who ate my library?" (casts divination only to discover it is Divination blocked).  

Edited October 16, 2023 by Darius West

[davecake]

On 10/7/2023 at 4:05 PM, Shiningbrow said:

What cults do you join in what order to make the most heinously OP character? - the answer is "Eurmal", and probably Irripi Ontor (as @davecake has said above!) Two steps - finished! (the sad thing is, it's actually probably quite easy to do this...)

It’s fairly difficult (but possible) to do both effectively. To be an effective Irripi Ontor, you want a high Truth Rune. To be an effective Eurmal you want a high Illusion Rune. Now, Illumination does allow you to increase Opposing Runes ( that is, not treat them as Opposed), but you only get to be Illuminated after character creation, and increasing Runes can take a while. 

I think this rule both somewhat reduces the ease of many of the obvious ‘munchkin’ uses of Illumination, and has a lot of interesting flavour to it. It’s obviously useful for the 7Mothers to have access to both Death and Life Magic, for example (your follower of Yanafals Tarnils can Heal Body in a fight, for example), but it requires a lot of effort to have both runes at a high level. 

(it is my feeling that many of the Illuminated members of Irripi Ontor do try to gain understanding of Illusion, and the Illuminated inner circle of the cult teaches sorcerous Mastery of Illusion at least, following the example of IO himself the master of Glamour - but this is a flavour thing, rather than something that greatly changes their magical effectiveness.)

[Shiningbrow]

4 minutes ago, davecake said:

It’s fairly difficult (but possible) to do both effectively. To be an effective Irripi Ontor, you want a high Truth Rune. To be an effective Eurmal you want a high Illusion Rune. Now, Illumination does allow you to increase Opposing Runes ( that is, not treat them as Opposed), but you only get to be Illuminated after character creation, and increasing Runes can take a while. 

I think this rule both somewhat reduces the ease of many of the obvious ‘munchkin’ uses of Illumination, and has a lot of interesting flavour to it. It’s obviously useful for the 7Mothers to have access to both Death and Life Magic, for example (your follower of Yanafals Tarnils can Heal Body in a fight, for example), but it requires a lot of effort to have both runes at a high level. 

(it is my feeling that many of the Illuminated members of Irripi Ontor do try to gain understanding of Illusion, and the Illuminated inner circle of the cult teaches sorcerous Mastery of Illusion at least, following the example of IO himself the master of Glamour - but this is a flavour thing, rather than something that greatly changes their magical effectiveness.)

Not necessarily!

You only need to have one of the cult's Runes at 50% - so, you could have your Truth/Illusion sitting at that.

Also, three are the other Runes that could be high - e.g. Disorder, Moon, etc. (Probably need a high Illusion to get your Lie to work reliably).

[Joerg]

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

I am surprised that nobody is suggesting Lanbril and Thanatar in combination.  I mean, (consume book) "Who ate my library?" (cast's divination only to discover it is Divination blocked).  

Just takes a head...

[Darius West]

On 10/10/2023 at 1:44 AM, Joerg said:

Just takes a head...

That entirely depends on how overt your Thanatari is.  Heads are large, and hard to explain in public.  It is far less risky to just bookworm your way through scrolls and books in a library, especially when there are multiple copies and one might not be missed.  Consume Mind is far more high risk, but the rewards are great too.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Darius West