Neep Troll Killer

[Erol of Backford]

Read about him, don't recall where but not much is published that I could locate.

Were they a hero quester and if so what powers did they obtain?

Noted as being as among the most famous trolls of the Dragon Pass region and pretty tough.

Neep evidently went unnoticed, and escaped to Dragon Pass where he was befriended by the cult of Geo but didn't drink liquor.. Which Geo's location and when?

Trollkin everywhere often followed him rather than their own tribe. So was there a band of trollkin and about how many, did they move around or did they set up a camp of sorts?

They were as skilled in making troll bane weapons, I assume made from iron and had worshiped the god Humakt.

Evidently he was also a player and seduced many drak troll females and was fond of bright colored clothes.

Considered elves bigots.

They may have also been a trollball player.

 

 

[metcalph]

There are the Neepspawn in the Munchrooms scenario of which it is said:

Quote

Neepspawn is the generic term used by trollkin to refer to the
trollkin in the band of Neep Trollsbane, a well-known trollkin
Rune Lord from Dragon Pass. Trollkin who have proved their
worth and fighting skill are often attracted to his band. Neep will
send some of his warriors for the right price and the right cause,
but he himself will not come to the Munchrooms.

Trollpak p194

Of the Trollkin that can be hired, one has no cult, another four are joined hostile cults (Humakt, Zorak Zoran, Seven Mothers and Babeester Gor) and the last is an Axe sacred to Babeester,

[soltakss]

The Well of Daliath has:

Quote

Neep Troll-Killer was a trollkin of superior qualities, the only of his kind during this period. Such sports, with much higher health, intelligence, and power than usual, occasionally occurred but were generally slain while young, so to prevent trouble when they got older. Neep evidently went unnoticed, and escaped to Dragon Pass where he was befriended by the cult of Geo. He grew up to hate all trolls who misused their weaker kin, and trollkin everywhere often followed him rather than their own tribe. He was known for his skill at making trollbane weapons. He worshiped the god Humakt. He was fond of bright-colored clothes, and had a reputation among humans as being a seducer of dark troll women. He never drank liquor. He liked humans, but disliked elves, whom he thought were a bigoted lot.

The Thieves' Arm has a one-pager on Neep.

 

The Munchrooms has this about Neep.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Read about him, don't recall where but not much is published that I could locate.

Were they a hero quester and if so what powers did they obtain?

Wyrms Footnotes #6 has the original entry:

NEEP TROLL KILLER was a trollkin of superior qualities, the only of his kind during this period. Such sports, with much higher health, intelligence, and power than usual, occasionally occurred but were generally slain while young, so to prevent trouble when they get older. Neep evidently went unnoticed, and escaped to Dragon Pass where he was befriended by the cult of Geo. He grew up to hate all trolls who misused their weaker kin, and the trollkin everywhere often followed him rather than their own tribe. HE was known for his skill at making troll bane weapons. He worshiped the god Humakt. He was fond of bright colored clothes, and had a reputation among humans as being a seducer of dark troll women. He never drank liquor. He liked humans, but disliked elves, who he thought were a bigoted lot.

The Munchrooms scenario in the original Trollpak also references Neep Trollsbane.

NEEPSPAWN (Ugly Kaz, Four Friends, and Nose-Biter’s Feet) Neepspawn is the generic term used by trollkin to refer to the trollkin in the band of Neep Trollsbane, a well-known trollkin Rune Lord from Dragon Pass. Trollkin who have proved their worth and fighting skill are often attracted to his band. Neep will send some of his warriors for the right price and the right cause, but he himself will not come to the Munchrooms.

The Four Friends: The Four Friends are four trollkin who each joined different, mutually unfriendly fighting cults, and then left the cults to join together. Their names and cults are listed with their statistics. They love fighting together, hence the price discount if all four are hired together. They are among Neep Trollsbane’s most skilled trollkin.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Which Geo's location and when?

Whichever one works for you.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Trollkin everywhere often followed him rather than their own tribe. So was there a band of trollkin and about how many, did they move around or did they set up a camp of sorts?

See the Munchrooms scenario.

 

[Erol of Backford]

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

The Thieves' Arm has a one-pager on Neep.

I looked through it briefly after checking the index but did see him even though the Well of Daliath showed it as a source... the other trollkin of the Munchrooms are there as well. Thank you for pointing it out.

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Whichever one works for you.

Maybe it's the Geo's Alone or Geo's Creek Inn that he was accepted into as are closer to troll lands? Also there is a Humakt shrine east of Storlock which may have been influential for Neep? This sets him closer to Alone if that were the case.

5 hours ago, jajagappa said:

See the Munchrooms scenario.

But it says "he himself will not go to the Muchrooms" 

(Where is the most basic conversion tables from Hero Quest to Rune Quest? Is each "w" like 10% and what is Neep's base % chance to seduce Uz Women and what would the bonus be if they are inebriated since he on the other hand doesn't drink?)

I would play it where his size would likely be a max of 12 but with some stolen Royal Jelly he might have boosted himself to say a 15-16? Maybe Neep hires the PC's to get him some Royal Jelly?

Since Neep is a devotee to Humakt I might play on the idea that he may partner with the Temple of the Wooden Sword on a few scenarios? Maybe part of his band makes a retaliatory strike against the Zorak Zoran temple that sent the war party to Sazdorf?

Any suggestions as to where this Zorak Zoran temple might be located? I like the idea that the Zorak Zorani are not members of the Sazdorf Clan (if that was understood somehow from any text) and if so they have reached out to another friendly troll clan with a Zorani temple for support? Maybe somewhere in Torkani lands there is a Zorak Zoran shrine or temple that doesn't like the Humakti in there sphere of influence? I feel like something in the hills or mountains near Storlock or the woods near Torkan’s Last Fort might be a good location for an antagonistic troll clan? Is there a map showing troll clan locations in northeast Sartar?

Also what clan did Neep escape from and what clan is Olag Stonecrusher from? If it's not noted, possibly they are from the same clan? Additionally after Olag from the Munchrooms is defeated possibly his relative who happens to be a Zorak Zorani comes calling at the Haunted Ruins?

Will need to work on these connections but Humakt shrine - Haunted Ruins - Temple of the Wooden Sword - Neep - Munchrooms...

Thanks for the help.

  

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

(Where is the most basic conversion tables from Hero Quest to Rune Quest? Is each "w" like 10% and what is Neep's base % chance to seduce Uz Women and what would the bonus be if they are inebriated since he on the other hand doesn't drink?)

There aren't per se any conversion tables. The "W" indicates Mastery - you can sort of think of it indicating 90%+ skill.

At a very rough level, I'd equate 13 = 65%, 17 = 85%, 1W = 100%, but HQG also factors in something of the opposed difficulty with how it treats masteries.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Any suggestions as to where this Zorak Zoran temple might be located?

If you want a place that has a map, try the Redstone Caverns in the Indigo Mountains. Redstone is also not that far from the Munchrooms.

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Also what clan did Neep escape from and what clan is Olag Stonecrusher from? If it's not noted, possibly they are from the same clan? Additionally after Olag from the Munchrooms is defeated possibly his relative who happens to be a Zorak Zorani comes calling at the Haunted Ruins?

You're into fully undocumented territory with those questions so really up to you.

 

[John Biles]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I looked through it briefly after checking the index but did see him even though the Well of Daliath showed it as a source... the other trollkin of the Munchrooms are there as well. Thank you for pointing it out.

Maybe it's the Geo's Alone or Geo's Creek Inn that he was accepted into as are closer to troll lands? Also there is a Humakt shrine east of Storlock which may have been influential for Neep? This sets him closer to Alone if that were the case.

But it says "he himself will not go to the Muchrooms" 

(Where is the most basic conversion tables from Hero Quest to Rune Quest? Is each "w" like 10% and what is Neep's base % chance to seduce Uz Women and what would the bonus be if they are inebriated since he on the other hand doesn't drink?)

 

 

Converting Heroquest to Runequest is tricky because of the differences in mechanics.

A W basically means you're at a tier where you can probably kick the ass of nearly anyone who doesn't have a W, but your ass will be kicked by someone at the 2W tier.  This applies to each step.  Each W bumps your roll up one step from Fumble to Failure to Success to Critical Success.  (Each W of your opponent then bumps it back down.)

So Neep has two Ws and a rating of 2 in the two W tier for his Close Combat ability.  Let's say he's facing Hartan, a hungry troll who only has 19 in Smash Trollkin. 

Meep rolls an 8, which is failure, but with two W, he bumps it up to Critical.  Hartan rolls a 12, a success... but he loses the exchange to the Critical.  Hartan is going to suffer some serious hurt.

In practice, Neep can kill trolls with a skill of 19 or less until the cows come home easily.  A troll with one mastery is a lot tougher foe and if he encounters a troll Rune Lord, he's in trouble.

Roughly speaking, below a W is someone of middling skill, 1 W is a master of the art, 2 W is into Runelord Territory, 3 is a really tough Runelord, 4 is into Hero Territory and 5 is into Superhero territory.

Meep has a lot of single Masteries, making him a powerful man and his main fighting ability puts him in the low Runelord territory.

 

Make your conversion accordingly.

[mfbrandi]

15 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

what is Neep's base % chance to seduce Uz Women and what would the bonus be if they are inebriated since he on the other hand doesn't drink?

Humans think he seduces uzko women, but maybe that says more about their sexual fantasies than it does about him. Maybe as a and cultist he wouldn’t stoop to exploiting beer goggles () to get women into bed, especially if that might result in more . Still, every cult has its backsliders, I suppose.

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Humans think he seduces uzko women, but maybe that says more about their sexual fantasies than it does about him. Maybe as a and cultist he wouldn’t stoop to exploiting beer goggles () to get women into bed, especially if that might result in more . Still, every cult has its backsliders, I suppose.

Do uz females mate primarily for reproduction, or do they mate for enjoyment, too? A superior trollkin (about to be) culled for uppity might very well be superior for enjoyment. Not that (successful) dark troll males are lackluster lovers, they wouldn't dare, and risk ending up eaten.

[Eff]

5 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Humans think he seduces uzko women, but maybe that says more about their sexual fantasies than it does about him. Maybe as a and cultist he wouldn’t stoop to exploiting beer goggles () to get women into bed, especially if that might result in more . Still, every cult has its backsliders, I suppose.

I think that, taking it as given and running with it, what is suggested by that ability is that there are a significant number of uz women who would be interested in a dashing, witty, and accomplished enlo once they're out from the big leaden doors and in Dragon Pass. 

Of course, this suggests trolls might not be monolithically behind the eugenics-obsessed society described in Trollpak, so thank goodness it's non-canon.

[mfbrandi]

@Joerg and @Eff: I have nothing against uz women having an active sexuality, it is just that “he seduces” always smells of James Bond and gives me the ick. Clearly, as a child I observed too many adults in the 1970s.

[John Biles]

On 5/5/2024 at 3:45 PM, Erol of Backford said:

(Where is the most basic conversion tables from Hero Quest to Rune Quest? Is each "w" like 10% and what is Neep's base % chance to seduce Uz Women and what would the bonus be if they are inebriated since he on the other hand doesn't drink?)

 

I forgot to address the 'Neep Seduction Skill' part of this.  Neep has 5W in Seduce UZ woman.  Can  he seduce Cragspider?  Probably not.  She likely has something like 'Contempt for Everyone 15W3'.  Can he seduce a normal troll woman?  He has a good shot.  Against someone without a Mastery in their resistance skill, he will never fumble, he will only fail 1 in 20 times and he has a five in 20 chance of a critical.  But that does mean a 14 in 20 chance of a normal success and even someone without any mastery might beat his roll and resist.

He's a decent seducer, but not legendary level yet.

 

[Joerg]

17 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

@Joerg and @Eff: I have nothing against uz women having an active sexuality, it is just that “he seduces” always smells of James Bond and gives me the ick. Clearly, as a child I observed too many adults in the 1970s.

"seduce" means "to lead astray" (or away). Sexual activity as a result is a typical outcome.

Eurmal does it all the time. His cult would be fine for quite a lot of the James Bond activities, including the assassination permit. (Although Eurmal shuns asking for permission.)

Orlanth does it in the King of Dragon Pass version of the Aroka myth. Ernalda does it in the Three Contests myth.

Icky activities and stereotypes are part and parcel of mythic encounters. Take for instance the swan maiden myth, e.g. in Wayland, or in the Hiording clan origin. (Or its reversal in "Holla die Waldfee".) You might wish to keep possible triggers related to involuntary intercourse out of your gaming group, but in that case there are plenty genres to avoid, and deep myth is one of those.

[Erol of Backford]

On 5/6/2024 at 2:06 PM, mfbrandi said:

always smells of James Bond

The James Bond of trolls? Note the ribboned goatee. Assuming Neep has ability and lower than average standards he likely had to feel his home for being with a few troll warriors women? If he doesn't drink as noted he sure would take advantage of tipsy troll women who might mistake him for a dark troll, again he likely had a few doeses of Royal Jelly?

11 hours ago, Joerg said:

and deep myth is one of those

"Neep myth"

On 5/6/2024 at 8:05 PM, John Biles said:

He's a decent seducer, but not legendary level yet.

At 70% success without drinking himself, I'd say that might have some level of "legendary" especially amongst trollkin who would of course conduct a bit of hero worship I am guessing, as he's just a trollkin not someone like Sigron... just sayin.

Good input.

I'm going to work on trying to find ties to the Humakt shrine and possibly early cooperation with the Temple of the Wooden Sword. Maybe the PC's are part of the TotWS and are sent to help the Muchrooms trollkin against the attacking trolls to glorify Humakt? Still need to work on that a bit...

I supposed the Munchrooms would need to happen in 1612-13 at the early TotWS activity. Who knows, maybe the PC's meet Nameless at Tourney Altar and then move to the Haunted Ruins with Neep?

I'll take another look at the stuff on Black Rock to see if there is some info on the Humakt shrine near there. What drew Neep to Humakt and could it have been the TotWS. Maybe he was one of the "dark troll" members under an alias name and no one noticed due to Royal Jelly? He'd need to go from SIZ 12 to SIZ 18-19 to be a typical size drak troll.

He used iron weapons I am guessing, as noted "troll's bane" weapons... do trollkin take extra damage from iron? Regardless why wouldn't more kick-ass trolls use iron as there material of choice for weapons, especially against there clan/tribal enemies? Come to think of it Nameless using an iron sword blessed to do double damage would do quadruple damage to the head on trolls after armor was penetrated? Add bladesharp or truesword and you'd be making a big dent in any trolls head. 2 past armor would be 8... that would take most average trolls down.

I like Neep with an iron great sword or an iron broadsword with shield.

 

[Darius West]

On 5/7/2024 at 2:37 AM, Joerg said:

Do uz females mate primarily for reproduction, or do they mate for enjoyment, too? A superior trollkin (about to be) culled for uppity might very well be superior for enjoyment. Not that (successful) dark troll males are lackluster lovers, they wouldn't dare, and risk ending up eaten.

If a female Uz produces a litter of trollkin, she will always only produce trollkin thereafter, and her fate is to be relegated to a minor female.  Only mothers who can at least produce Dark Trolls are ever given much status.  Among mothers who are relegated to birthing only trollkins, to mate with a trollkin would not be a problem, but is (a) unfulfilling due to the size difference and (b) a social no-no for a Dark troll, but not the end of the world for a trollkin mother dark troll, who is already down on the pecking order.

[John Biles]

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

If a female Uz produces a litter of trollkin, she will always only produce trollkin thereafter, and her fate is to be relegated to a minor female.  Only mothers who can at least produce Dark Trolls are ever given much status.  Among mothers who are relegated to birthing only trollkins, to mate with a trollkin would not be a problem, but is (a) unfulfilling due to the size difference and (b) a social no-no for a Dark troll, but not the end of the world for a trollkin mother dark troll, who is already down on the pecking order.

The idea that having trollkin permanently means you only have trollkin is not found in any of the sources I have for current canon.

Rather, that a Dark Troll Mother can have either and it's about 50-50.

 

[svensson]

OK, just imagine this.... Yeah, I know it's so unlikely as to be impossible but just think about how awesome it would be....

 

For Neep Trollkiller to meet Mello Yello in New Pavis and have him show our monkey brother how it's done...

 

First off, a Baboon Light Son would send Kariel the Pure straight up the Retirement Tower like a Dwarf fireworks show.

And having a TROLLKIN watching with pride as that Baboon was made a Light Son would have Invictus seriously question a significant number of his life choices.

With Gorovan, Krogar and Belvani over in a corner laughing their fool asses off.

[As St. Mel of Brooks taught us, proper satire must include uncomfortable truths, obvious lies, purposeful misunderstandings, and a dollop of bad taste for seasoning]

[Darius West]

50 minutes ago, John Biles said:

The idea that having trollkin permanently means you only have trollkin is not found in any of the sources I have for current canon.

Rather, that a Dark Troll Mother can have either and it's about 50-50.

 

It is in trollpak somewhere.

[John Biles]

6 minutes ago, Darius West said:

It is in trollpak somewhere.

And Trollpak is no longer canon.  People can use it in their own games, but basically, all that's gone down the memory hole.

[metcalph]

The nearest statement is the Troll Tribe generation on p48 of the Book of Uz (RQ3 edition)

Quote

For the outcome of each pregnancy, roll 1d6 - 1-3 indicates a single uzko, 4-6 indicates a litter of 1d6 enlo.  If the pregnancy results in enlo, the mother becomes impure, and all future pregnancies automatically produce enlo litters.  She can be purified through a lengthy ritual, which causes her to skip one pregnancy.

 

[Jens]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:07 AM, John Biles said:

And Trollpak is no longer canon.  People can use it in their own games, but basically, all that's gone down the memory hole.

Check out the Red Book of Magic spell Purification Ritual- “Normally a female troll who gives birth to trollkin gives birth to trollkin in all future pregnancies”. Looks like it’s official in RQ:G. 

Edited May 9 by Jens

[Darius West]

On 5/8/2024 at 5:07 PM, John Biles said:

And Trollpak is no longer canon.  People can use it in their own games, but basically, all that's gone down the memory hole.

Well that's just sad.  Trollpak is an excellent document.  The best thing RQ ever produced, imo.   I have been hoping that Aldryami, Mostali and Dragonewts would all receive a Trollpak treatment.  Instead you are telling me that Trollpak is no longer canon.  That's pretty woeful.

Edited May 12 by Darius West

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

Trollpak is an excellent document.  The best thing RQ ever produced, imo.   I have been hoping that Aldryami, Mostali and Dragonewts would all receive a Trollpak treatment.  Instead you are telling me that Trollpak is no longer canon.  That's pretty woeful.

I doubt that we will see anything substantively different on the trolls. The trolls in RQ Bestiary are consistent with Trollpak. We will get Gods of Darkness, and I suspect most will be what we're already familiar with from Trollpak and later Troll Gods. 

[theconfusingeel]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

I doubt that we will see anything substantively different on the trolls. The trolls in RQ Bestiary are consistent with Trollpak. We will get Gods of Darkness, and I suspect most will be what we're already familiar with from Trollpak and later Troll Gods. 

Well the darkness book will apperantly cover the exact same cults as Troll Gods(with the exception of Arkat who is replaced by Jajajgapa and possibly Inora) so I imagine it won't be that different from the old material

[John Biles]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

Well that's just sad.  Trollpak is an excellent document.  The best thing RQ ever produced, imo.   I have been hoping that Aldryami, Mostali and Dragonewts would all receive a Trollpak treatment.  Instead you are telling me that Trollpak is no longer canon.  That's pretty woeful.

Pretty much everything published before the Guide to Glorantha is subject to change.