Starting My First Game

[Rob Darvall]

17 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Alternatively — whisper it! — not everything we read is true. 😉

Even worse, it's only as true as we need it to be for OUR story.

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

It’s only as true as we need it to be for OUR story.

Well, as applied to the real world, that causes trouble, certainly. As applied to Glorantha and a playing group with a shared vision, it is probably fine — consensus unreality.

Spoiler

Of course, I like the rug to be pulled every now-and-again, but that is my personal kink. 😉

[Rob Darvall]

I don't know if you've access to the RuneQuest FB page, so here's something Nick Brooke posted this morning that struck me as relevant.

"When I studied history, one of the bog-standard essay questions was something like this: “Discuss the ideal and reality of <insert knotty historical issue here>.”

Glorantha is where the lurid otherworldly ideals of Godtime collide with the gritty pragmatic hardscrabble reality of mortal existence. What your Rune Priest says about eternal verities vs. what your parents tell you about the way we do things round here. On one side of the curtain there are passions, psychedelia and Rune ratings; on the other, clunky percentiles, hit locations and encumbrance rules. {The underlining is mine}

It’s the balance between the two that appeals. Do what the Rune Priest says his God wants, or compromise to survive in the same way your ancestors, chieftains and kings always have done? Love and protect your family, or devote yourself to some damn fool ideological crusade? RuneQuest GMs should learn to lean hard on those pressure points {also my bolding}. It’s what living in Glorantha is all about."

I interpret this as the rules system reflecting the two neccessary sides of Glorantha. The madness of Godtime and imminent products of faith VS getting a cow out of a bog so her milk will feed the family.

[ingot]

3 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

Glorantha is where the lurid otherworldly ideals of Godtime collide with the gritty pragmatic hardscrabble reality of mortal existence. What your Rune Priest says about eternal verities vs. what your parents tell you about the way we do things round here. On one side of the curtain there are passions, psychedelia and Rune ratings; on the other, clunky percentiles, hit locations and encumbrance rules. {The underlining is mine}

It’s the balance between the two that appeals. Do what the Rune Priest says his God wants, or compromise to survive in the same way your ancestors, chieftains and kings always have done? Love and protect your family, or devote yourself to some damn fool ideological crusade? RuneQuest GMs should learn to lean hard on those pressure points {also my bolding}. It’s what living in Glorantha is all about."

I interpret this as the rules system reflecting the two neccessary sides of Glorantha. The madness of Godtime and imminent products of faith VS getting a cow out of a bog so her milk will feed the family.

I hadn't thought of it in such terms, but I like it.

The gods might want absolute adherence by their worshippers, but their worshippers live in Time/History created by the Great Compromise, where Yelm is in the Sky only during the day, and during night there is Darkness for the trolls.  For mortals in Time, life is has been designed to require compromise.

[svensson]

When it comes to the 'Elmal' question, it is and always was a YGMV thing. Not a single one of us have ever run an RQ or Glorantha game the same way Greg would have done it any more than anyone has run a DnD the same EGG did.

Sure, I'm an Elmal heretic, but however you run your table is absolutely fine. There are two great 'rules' in RQ: Maximum Game Fun [MGF] and YGMV [Your Glorantha May Vary]. If your table thinks having Afro-Samurai riding in on a unicorn farting fairy dust is the way to gaming joy and happiness, have at it. No milieu or mechanics survives contact with a referee intact and no adventure survives contact with player characters as written anyway. 😁

Sure, we grumble about 'canon' but that's a bunch of Old Geeks [aka 'Team Geezer'] rattling on about the good ol' days.

[mfbrandi]

8 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

Love and protect your family, or devote yourself to some damn fool ideological crusade?

The Scylla of “mom” versus the Charybdis of “church”? Steer clear of both and join a band of anarchists, nihilists, and ne’er-do-wells, for to reject these two holies is to reject everything. 😉

Spoiler

Yes, I am sure there are other ways to gloss it, so that at least one fork seems more appealing. It just seemed a bit “Arsenal or Spurs — no other options”. No crochet. No haiku. No …

[Nick Brooke]

The point is, o Best Beloved, some people think there’s no decisions to take: all their Gloranthan characters are unworldly fanatical ideologues. Your Father agrees with your Priest about everything.

[None]

On 10/8/2024 at 1:43 AM, g33k said:

However I think an unusually-deep Session Zero is apt.  Glorantha is a visceral, brutal, Bronze Age world, in both physical and mythical ways.  Slavery (and other "non-free" statuses like serf, thrall, etc), deep-set racial & ideological hatreds, and countless other problem topics abound (and the grognards here remember prior editions with other, even-more-confrontational material, and still adhere to it as "their Glorantha")

Now I'm kind of curious. what even-more-confrontational material are we talking about?

[Nick Brooke]

57 minutes ago, None said:

Now I'm kind of curious. what even-more-confrontational material are we talking about?

Admin warning: please stay on topic.

[Nozbat]

6 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

Your Father agrees with your Priest about everything.

Sounds like the Catholic Church in Ireland in the 1950s

[Anlúan]

18 hours ago, Rob Darvall said:

I don't know if you've access to the RuneQuest FB page, so here's something Nick Brooke posted this morning that struck me as relevant.

"When I studied history, one of the bog-standard essay questions was something like this: “Discuss the ideal and reality of <insert knotty historical issue here>.”

Glorantha is where the lurid otherworldly ideals of Godtime collide with the gritty pragmatic hardscrabble reality of mortal existence. What your Rune Priest says about eternal verities vs. what your parents tell you about the way we do things round here. On one side of the curtain there are passions, psychedelia and Rune ratings; on the other, clunky percentiles, hit locations and encumbrance rules. {The underlining is mine}

It’s the balance between the two that appeals. Do what the Rune Priest says his God wants, or compromise to survive in the same way your ancestors, chieftains and kings always have done? Love and protect your family, or devote yourself to some damn fool ideological crusade? RuneQuest GMs should learn to lean hard on those pressure points {also my bolding}. It’s what living in Glorantha is all about."

I interpret this as the rules system reflecting the two neccessary sides of Glorantha. The madness of Godtime and imminent products of faith VS getting a cow out of a bog so her milk will feed the family.

I find this fascinating, and it's definitely something I'll keep in mind as I plan my upcoming game.

I've read the part about Tribes in WF#15 now, and I have a question.

Old Hendriki, Telmori, Yelmalions/Yelmalians, Dark Orlanthi, Prax Orlanthi Tarshite, Old Tarshite and Kerofini all make sense as distinct cultural groups, but what of Sword/Axe/Light(weaponry) Orlanthi? It feels a meek distinction compared to the rest? Are they refered to like that anywhere else?

Also I did list "Tarshite, Old Tarshite and Kerofini" instead of "Tarshite and Earth Tarsh" as in the WF#15, just for clarity, as "Tarshite" in the text in question seems to be refering to what is called "Old Tarshite" in the R:RiG books, and Earth Tarsh is refering explictly to tribes that originated in Old Tarsh, not the Tarshite refugees Old Tarsh is mostly known for - so I've called them Kerofini.

This leads into another question. Tarshite is split by Lunar (then by Wideread vs Pharandros), Old (then split by refugee or kerofini), Sartar has the Tribes with many angles, Prax has its tribes. Grazelanders have the Vendref and Pure Horse Person split, as well as if they follow the Feathered Horse Queen "Reaches All" or Luminous Stallion King. But what of Esrolia? I know very little of the place comparatively.

[jajagappa]

31 minutes ago, Anlúan said:

Old Hendriki, Telmori, Yelmalions/Yelmalians, Dark Orlanthi, Prax Orlanthi Tarshite, Old Tarshite and Kerofini all make sense as distinct cultural groups, but what of Sword/Axe/Light(weaponry) Orlanthi? It feels a meek distinction compared to the rest? Are they refered to like that anywhere else?

Also I did list "Tarshite, Old Tarshite and Kerofini" instead of "Tarshite and Earth Tarsh" as in the WF#15, just for clarity, as "Tarshite" in the text in question seems to be refering to what is called "Old Tarshite" in the R:RiG books, and Earth Tarsh is refering explictly to tribes that originated in Old Tarsh, not the Tarshite refugees Old Tarsh is mostly known for - so I've called them Kerofini.

Rather than wade into rather outdated distinctions, I'd recommend getting the new Dragon Pass book if you haven't already and reviewing the backgrounds for Sartar, Old Tarsh, Tarsh, and the Far Place there. You can always elaborate if needed for your game, but those are really the distinctions now, not something from migrations happening 300 years prior (after all which migrations were your ancestors part of 300 years ago?).

34 minutes ago, Anlúan said:

But what of Esrolia? I know very little of the place comparatively.

Esrolia is very settled and dominated by powerful noble Houses (effectively clans) and many supporting client Houses both in the cities and the villages. As the land is "owned" by the Earth temples, these Houses jockey for positions in the temple hierarchies to help them gain the upper hand over their rivals. The Houses are matriarchal and dominated by the Grandmothers.

You can find more on Esrolia in my Nochet: Adventurer's Guide and Nochet: Queen of Cities, both available in Chaosium's Jonstown Compendium community content program. 

[Anlúan]

On 10/14/2024 at 12:02 AM, jajagappa said:

On 10/13/2024 at 11:22 PM, Anlúan said:

Old Hendriki, Telmori, Yelmalions/Yelmalians, Dark Orlanthi, Prax Orlanthi Tarshite, Old Tarshite and Kerofini all make sense as distinct cultural groups, but what of Sword/Axe/Light(weaponry) Orlanthi? It feels a meek distinction compared to the rest? Are they refered to like that anywhere else?

Also I did list "Tarshite, Old Tarshite and Kerofini" instead of "Tarshite and Earth Tarsh" as in the WF#15, just for clarity, as "Tarshite" in the text in question seems to be refering to what is called "Old Tarshite" in the R:RiG books, and Earth Tarsh is refering explictly to tribes that originated in Old Tarsh, not the Tarshite refugees Old Tarsh is mostly known for - so I've called them Kerofini.

Expand  

Rather than wade into rather outdated distinctions, I'd recommend getting the new Dragon Pass book if you haven't already and reviewing the backgrounds for Sartar, Old Tarsh, Tarsh, and the Far Place there. You can always elaborate if needed for your game, but those are really the distinctions now, not something from migrations happening 300 years prior (after all which migrations were your ancestors part of 300 years ago?).

Thank you for this! I didn’t realise those were particularly outdated. I hope I don’t bore you guys with my floundering about if I’m honest. There is so much to take in!

I’ve been reading the new book, and that made me come across the new Spirit Cults, which gave me a few questions in regards to them.

1) Can someone join a Spirit Cult and a Rune Cult?

2) Why would someone join a Spirit Cult rather than a Rune Cult?

3) Is it plausible to make a Chaos Spirit Cult, or are they all Rune Cults? As I was considering having a Homebrew Chaos… entity (spirit? demigod?) called Asgrela.

Beyond Spirit Cults, I was curious on a few other things:

4) Who are the Western Barbarians mentioned in the family history portion of character creation?

5) What do the Orlanthi (generally) think of Annilla? Is she just another Lunar thing to hate, or is there more nuance there than with The Red Goddess? I imagine Dormal / Engizi / Choralinthor Followers have different feelings about her?

6) If Yelm Initiate status can only pass from Pure Horse Person, in a patrilineal fashion, doesn’t that suggest his faith is suffering greatly?

[Runeblogger]

1) Yes, that is very common.

2) To get the specific magic it provides, which is not usually available elsewhere, but most often spirit cults are joined additionally to a Rune cult. Also, because your shaman may say it is crucial for survival (f.ex. in Prax) or to overcome a particular problem.

3) Totally plausible! Since there seem to be many more spirits than gods, there should be more spirit cults than Rune cults, only they are way less known, because each spirit cult is usually only accessible at a specific place or area that spirit favors. Many spirit cults are waiting to become known.

4) They are the Malki… (Oooops corrected by metcalph below, please read his reply). 😅

5) I’d say the Orlanthi usually know very little of Annilla. Dormal worshippers may know way more about her and have a neutral relationship to the blurry celestial body.

6) The Yelm cult described in the rulebook is only the Grazelander version of the Yelm cult. In other lands like Dara Happa (in the Lunar Empire), he is only worshipped by the nobility. But he remains a very central and respected god even if most people in his pantheon worship adjacent deities. 

Edited yesterday at 07:27 AM by Runeblogger

[metcalph]

6 hours ago, Anlúan said:

 

4) Who are the Western Barbarians mentioned in the family history portion of character creation?

The Ditali (mentioned in the head paragraph under Year 1616 p36) and the Solanthi (mentioned on p37).  The Ditali are Orlanthi kingdom dwelling to the west of Esrolia (although they would speak a language but related language different from the Esrolians/Sartarites - as different as Tarshite is for example).  The Solanthi are an even stronger confederation of Orlanthi to the west of the Ditali and prettyu much everybody in Maniria has paid them protection money in the past. 

 

[None]

12 hours ago, Anlúan said:

6) If Yelm Initiate status can only pass from Pure Horse Person, in a patrilineal fashion, doesn’t that suggest his faith is suffering greatly?

Like Runeblogger said the Yelm is in places like Dara Happa and probably also in several other solar cultures by design only worshipped by the men of the nobility. So there being few Yelm initiates is not necessarily a sign of the Yelm faith suffering. (Some would probably even say that there being few Yelm initates and few that qualify as Yelm initiates is the cult just working as intended and the opposite would in fact be bad.)

That said. With the Grazelanders it is entirely possible (even though I don't know how likely) that there are clans where most the men of are patrilineal descended from Yelm. Meaning that as long as they don't start adopting in men that don't have patrilineal descent from Yelm (assuming they even do that) and the wife moves to the husband's clan then the whole patrilineal descent from Yelm thing won't be that big of an issue.

As for clans with smaller pools of potential Yelmic initiates, well, considering that Yu-Kargzant (the Grazelnbder name for Yelm) gives way more powerful magic and probably also status that Kargzant (the Grazelander name for Yelmalio). Most Grazelander clans probably keep a very close eye on their bloodlines both for social and for practical reasons.

--

I'd say that something that is far more complicated for the Yelmics of the Grazelands is the Feathered Horse Queen. Most of it is probably far in the past for them now but there was pretty much a civil war the first Feathered Horse Queen took power over the Grazelanders from the Yelmic cult when she changed the association of La-ungariant the Grazelanders goddess of women from Dendara to Ernalda.

All of that meant that the Grazelanders now have a much better relationship with all their Orlanthi neighbours and the Orlanthi farmers that grow their food than they would otherwise (since Yelm and Orlanth don't really mix well). The feathered Horse Queen is also magically very powerful as the highest instance of Ernalda in all of Dragon Pass wich gives the Grazelanders both social and practical benefits. Oh, and she also has a small army of one armed Humakti (maybe that is too generous a word, Humakti aren't that common to begin with) that belong to a sub cult with the special ability to parry arrows withch happens to be the favoured weapon of the initiate of Yu-Kargzant.

--

Sorry for the long post as this might have been a little too much and I'm sure there are others who can explain this better than I can.

Edited yesterday at 12:21 PM by None

[Joerg]

13 hours ago, Anlúan said:

6) If Yelm Initiate status can only pass from Pure Horse Person, in a patrilineal fashion, doesn’t that suggest his faith is suffering greatly?

While initiation to Yelm is rather exclusive, worship of Yelm by associate cultists or lay worshippers is incredibly wide-spread. Lay worshippers and members of associate cults make up the bulk of all worshippers in practically every Gloranthan worship outside of secret cults, and while the individual contribution of a lay worshipper may be less than that of an initiate, their sheer number more than makes up for that. All Grazelanders worship Yelm / Yu-Kargzant in their tribal rites.

[John Biles]

17 hours ago, None said:

All of that meant that the Grazelanders now have a much better relationship with all their Orlanthi neighbours and the Orlanthi farmers that grow their food than they would otherwise (since Yelm and Orlanth don't really mix well). The feathered Horse Queen is also magically very powerful as the highest instance of Ernalda in all of Dragon Pass wich gives the Grazelanders both social and practical benefits.

That must grind the Clearwine Temple's gears.