Adding some MRQ elements to BRP

[Tywyll]

I realize I'm probably treading on dangerous grounds here, considering the general dislike for MRQ, but I was wondering about the possibility of including some of its mechanics (tweaked) into BRP when I get it.

I'm not looking for comments about how much MRQ sucks or whatever. I already realize its not as good as BRP, but it is widely supported and some of the newer rules appeal to me.

One of the big things I'm thinking of using with BRP once I get it is using both the Allegiance system, as well as the Pow sacrifice system in the MRQ version of Elric. I really like the idea of dedicating pow to one's god and being rewarded for bits of your soul, but I also like the idea of one's actions reflecting one's leanings. It suits my campaign world very well. I'm just wondering about the balance aspect (especially the ability that gives you a flat 100% in a Cult Skill).

I'm also interested in some of the magic systems from MRQ, mostly the sorcery with the Glorantha 2nd Age material added in, wherein magic becomes more 'blasty'. It would need to be altered to fit a system that doesn't use Hit Locations, of course, but otherwise, could they work together?

I suppose it has a lot to do with how the two base magic systems work and whether they fulfill my campaign's magic needs I suppose. Since I don't really have a clear idea of how the two systems work, I don't yet if they'll do it for me.

Has anyone else considered this?

[tzunder]

Go for it!

Many of the MRQ authors (like Lawrence Whitaker) know BRP very well and the systems are very interchangeable.

I liked MRQ RuneMagic, and having looked at RQ Slaine I like the EarthPower magic.

In reverse if you like MRQ and yet want to use the magic systems from the Unknown East for Elric, go for it.

As for hit locations, well they are in the BRP rulebook (as an option I think) so then you could simply use the BRP hit locations, or even port the MRQ version over into your new mix and match game.

Personally I'd try and do it the other way (I've grow out of hit locations).

I know that any BRP games I run personally will probably be a mix and match between MRQ and BRP.. it's great tha there is so much d100 based gaming stuff out there.. even if it may have stolen Chaosium's thunder.

Worth noting is that this summer an OGL game will come out called SimpleQuest which may well be a simpler and refined system to hang your gaming off, whilst staying within the fold of the d100 trope.

SQ is from Newt Newport and will be 100% OGL.

[lawrence.whitaker]

The Pact system from Elric is highly portable to BRP, but it is designed to reflect specifically the Elric saga, so you might want to tone down some elements, like the 100% cult skill raise, or Eternal Life, to reflect the realities of your own campaign. But that's very easily done, and there's no reason why mechanics like this shouldn't be used in BRP. The forthcoming 'Cults of the Young Kingdoms' book has dozens of cult gifts resulting from a Pact that are more subtle in their effects, so this could be a source of inspiration if that's how you want your campaign to go.

Personally I never like or used the Allegiance system from the Chaosium Elric! game, and find that Pacts, Gifts and Compulsions reflect the saga far more accurately, but its really a matter of preference. Allegiance is eminently usable and will suit certain kinds of settings and campaigns better than Pacts.

[Mugen]

I plan on using the preliminary experience (background/profession/free points) part of MRQ in my next BRP session, with significantly higher base %iles.

I also adopted the "high roll wins" resolution method.

As for the magic systems, I already have my own system, based on a simplified version of Sandy Petersen's Sorcery and Enchantment rules.

[RosenMcStern]

Do not forget Hero Points. They are a worthy addition that MRQ applied to D100, stealing the idea from HeroQuest or Mythic Russia. You may not like Legendary Abilities, which are covered by Powers in BRP, but Hero Point usage in combat makes a game better.

[Tywyll]

Do not forget Hero Points. They are a worthy addition that MRQ applied to D100, stealing the idea from HeroQuest or Mythic Russia. You may not like Legendary Abilities, which are covered by Powers in BRP, but Hero Point usage in combat makes a game better.

Actually, I love Hero Points. I simply didn't mention them because I thought that was a hot button issue for many fans of BRP, so I was trying to not start a fight.

I also like Heroic Abilities. You say that they are covered in Powers by BRP, but I thought the BRP Powers section just contained things like magic and psionics and mutations. Does it have special abilities that represent Feats of tremendous skill or some such? Because that would be awesome if they did!

How would you use HP in BRP to reduce damage since there are no hit locations?

[AikiGhost]

SQ is from Newt Newport and will be 100% OGL.

So Tom what is he hoping to do with SQ that isnt available in GORE?

Also are you making Continuum this year? It would be nice to put a face to a name

[RosenMcStern]

Actually, I love Hero Points. I simply didn't mention them because I thought that was a hot button issue for many fans of BRP, so I was trying to not start a fight.

Since my SR is way higher - no, wait, wrong forum, this is BRP - er, lower than the others', and my skill is higher, I am not afraid of fights. On forums, at least.

I also like Heroic Abilities. You say that they are covered in Powers by BRP, but I thought the BRP Powers section just contained things like magic and psionics and mutations. Does it have special abilities that represent Feats of tremendous skill or some such? Because that would be awesome if they did!

Why not? Some Heroic Abilities in MRQ seem rather silly to me (wall-leaping, decapitating strike), but having Powers that represents "excellence in skill" may be interestin. Certainly I would not like a feat-ridden system like That Other Game version 3.5+.

How would you use HP in BRP to reduce damage since there are no hit locations?

HPs in MRQ do not reduce damage, they downgrade the wound severity. Damage is reduced as a side effect. The effect would be to negate a Major Wound, for instance.

[NickMiddleton]

Do not forget Hero Points. They are a worthy addition that MRQ applied to D100, stealing the idea from HeroQuest or Mythic Russia.

There is a fate point mechanic in BRP (page 176 of BRP 0).

You may not like Legendary Abilities, which are covered by Powers in BRP, but Hero Point usage in combat makes a game better.

(my emphasis)

My experience of such systems (not just in BRP/RQ but in a number of other games) is that they are intrusive, breaking "the fourth wall" in a fashion that is detrimental to the atmosphere and flow of the game. Some groups love them - but equally, some groups don't...

I also like Heroic Abilities. You say that they are covered in Powers by BRP, but I thought the BRP Powers section just contained things like magic and psionics and mutations. Does it have special abilities that represent Feats of tremendous skill or some such?

How else would you describe a skill of 250%? "tremendous skill" is just that: tremendous skill.

Because that would be awesome if they did!

Elements of the Super Powers system can be used to model exceptional / superhuman talents (e.g. Superhearing will let a character hear frequencies other humans cannot), and setting the campaign "level" suitably high will allow very high skill levels.

How would you use HP in BRP to reduce damage since there are no hit locations?

Err, Hit Lcoations are an optional system in BRP. The Fate Point system I mentioned allows a Character to "soak" one point of damage at the cost of three "power points" (what we known in previous BRP games as magic points), as well as offering various options to affect the outcome of percentile rolls that could reduce damage suffered in combat.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

[Tywyll]

Since my SR is way higher - no, wait, wrong forum, this is BRP - er, lower than the others', and my skill is higher, I am not afraid of fights. On forums, at least.

Why not? Some Heroic Abilities in MRQ seem rather silly to me (wall-leaping, decapitating strike), but having Powers that represents "excellence in skill" may be interestin. Certainly I would not like a feat-ridden system like That Other Game version 3.5+.

I don't like decapitating strike or death touch, simply as I don't really like 'save or die' effects. However, Wall Crawler or Lore master or some of the other ones, even fencer, I think are good ways to show focus or mastery of a specific techniques.

HPs in MRQ do not reduce damage, they downgrade the wound severity. Damage is reduced as a side effect. The effect would be to negate a Major Wound, for instance.

I think that's arguing semantics. The point is you could take 100 hps of damage to the head and still you can reduce it to nothing or almost nothing. That's pretty awesome and it does reduce damage. Are you suggesting by 'negate a Major Wound' that all the damage from such would go away as well?

[RosenMcStern]

Nope. Negate a major wound means: my Major wound threshold is 6 HPs, I take 8 damage, the damage is reduced to 5 HPs because "it is just a flesh wound". Or you could take all the damage to your general HPs and simply not consider it a major wound. This if you want a parallel with MRQ.

However, what I strongly suggest is rather adopting the mechanics for plot bending, that is explained in both MRQ and Mythic Russia (better in Mythic Russia). This is more useful, and encourages good roleplaying.

[frogspawner]

However, what I strongly suggest is rather adopting the mechanics for plot bending, that is explained in both MRQ and Mythic Russia (better in Mythic Russia). This is more useful, and encourages good roleplaying.

Or is it just institutionalized cheating? Tastes vary.

[RosenMcStern]

On the contrary, the whole point is that, unlike the darn RQ Divine Intervention, plot bending involves finding a plausible reason why things should go that way. I strongly suggest you read Mark Galeotti's example in Mythic Russia.

[frogspawner]

I find Divine Interventions perfectly plausible, given a magic-rich world with deities actively supporting their followers, and quite limited in scope ("Save me!", "Get us home!", "Enchant my armour!"). Plot bending gives the same power to the players, which is too much IMHO - because they can fast-talk to justify anything. But perhaps you could summarize Mr G's example for us (I've no intention of making the investment, y'see).

[Tywyll]

Nope. Negate a major wound means: my Major wound threshold is 6 HPs, I take 8 damage, the damage is reduced to 5 HPs because "it is just a flesh wound". Or you could take all the damage to your general HPs and simply not consider it a major wound. This if you want a parallel with MRQ.

I don't find that to be as effective as the use of them in MRQ. In MRQ, if you kept getting hit in the same damaged area, you could keep deflecting the damage with additional Hero Points (which is why they reduce damage). Each hit after the first gets negated, in effect, because all damage below location +1 gets removed. That's quite potent.

Reducing it to peeling back a few points off of a Major wound in a system without HL just isn't as impressive to me. I think a better way to handle it would be to simply have the attack to minimum damage, or negate the damage entirely.

However, what I strongly suggest is rather adopting the mechanics for plot bending, that is explained in both MRQ and Mythic Russia (better in Mythic Russia). This is more useful, and encourages good roleplaying.

I'm familiar with the plot altering stuff in MRQ, but I haven't seen Mythic Russia.

[Tywyll]

Or is it just institutionalized cheating? Tastes vary.

I fail to see how a 'minor change' in the storyline is cheating. Four heads are better than one and sometimes the players come up with ideas that are better (or more interesting) than the GM has had the time to. They can also populate the world with old friends that show up at the right moment, like in stories and movies and myths, without the burden being on the GM to create such beforehand.

What is wrong with that?

Or is Plotbending something beyond the normal use of HP in MRQ?

[Tywyll]

There is a fate point mechanic in BRP (page 176 of BRP 0).

Don't have the book yet as its not out in the UK, so that doesn't help much.

(my emphasis)

My experience of such systems (not just in BRP/RQ but in a number of other games) is that they are intrusive, breaking "the fourth wall" in a fashion that is detrimental to the atmosphere and flow of the game. Some groups love them - but equally, some groups don't...

I find that including the players in the creative process makes them more involved and more interested in the game and the world. We've never found them intrusive, but as you say, YMMV.

How else would you describe a skill of 250%? "tremendous skill" is just that: tremendous skill.

You tell me, what does having such a high skill do for you under the new BRP rules? How is functionally different from a skill at 96% other than the higher chance of a critical? What can you do with that 250% that you can't do with 100% or 150%? In combat, I imagine it gives extra attacks... but does it allow you to do more damage with a blow, shatter your opponent's weapons or armor? Does a 250% in art allow you to manipulate the emotions of your viewers, so that everyone who sees your work weep or go insane?

My BRP games don't allow skills to represent such abilities, they simply increase the chance for success. I'd like to see more to it than that. If the new BRP rules have such ideas in them, then awesome.

Elements of the Super Powers system can be used to model exceptional / superhuman talents (e.g. Superhearing will let a character hear frequencies other humans cannot), and setting the campaign "level" suitably high will allow very high skill levels.

What I'd be interested in seeing if there is a way to map such extra abilities to high skill levels.

Err, Hit Lcoations are an optional system in BRP. The Fate Point system I mentioned allows a Character to "soak" one point of damage at the cost of three "power points" (what we known in previous BRP games as magic points), as well as offering various options to affect the outcome of percentile rolls that could reduce damage suffered in combat.

Yes, they are optional, not standard. I don't intend to use them as I find they slow down the game personally. Hero Points reduce damage to locations in a specific way in MRQ. Thanks for letting me know how they work in BRP with 'total hp'. It seems a bit weak though, doesn't that mean that say your average person with a Pow of 10 will only deflect 3 points of damage? I guess the better option is to spend your points to avoid being hit in the first place?

Anyway, thanks for that bit of info on how the new system works.

[The Last Conformist]

You tell me, what does having such a high skill do for you under the new BRP rules? How is functionally different from a skill at 96% other than the higher chance of a critical?

The most obvious difference is with Hard tasks (which are attempted at half skill) - the 260% type is still all but guaranteed to succeed, whereas the 96% guy is more likely than not to fail.

[Tywyll]

The most obvious difference is with Hard tasks (which are attempted at half skill) - the 260% type is still all but guaranteed to succeed, whereas the 96% guy is more likely than not to fail.

Which, while good, is still simply a pass-fail, there is nothing beyond the success or failure of their action, that's all I'm saying.

[Shaira]

Which, while good, is still simply a pass-fail, there is nothing beyond the success or failure of their action, that's all I'm saying.

Well, you have a number of side-effects which are built into the rules. For example, with a 260% attack you can attack 5 times a round. You can also parry nine attacks (each one taking a successive -30% parry chance) in a round. You ignore armor nearly 15% of the time, and do heavy damage.

With non-combat skills, 260% gives you a huge edge on opposed rolls, where crits trump specials, specials trump successes; if you use the "effect number" opposed roll, where you basically calculate how much you made your roll by, you will always beat someone with 100% in an opposed roll if you both roll successes. Also with "Complimentary Skills", which work similar to HQ Augments, you can get a +52% bonus to affected skills.

I'm very interested in skill use above 100%, but am also very happy to see BRP being able to scale at these levels without having to implement a whole new set of rules for high-level skill use. Thus you don't have to specifically *say* that 260% Climb will enable you do achieve near-superhuman feats, but your character will nevertheless be able to routinely scale a castle wall using only his hands (130% chance)!

Cheers,

Sarah

[frogspawner]

Don't have the book yet as its not out in the UK, so that doesn't help much.

Wouldn't you pay 30-odd quid for it? With the dollar as it is, that's the price including postage to order it direct off Chaosium - and you'd have it in two weeks. But there's less than a hundred Ed.Zero's left...

[The Last Conformist]

Which, while good, is still simply a pass-fail, there is nothing beyond the success or failure of their action, that's all I'm saying.

Ah, I believe I misunderstood the question a bit.

The extra attacks for 100%+ weapon skills excepted, my understanding is there's few if any additional abilities that are unlocked by heroic skill levels. Personally, I don't want there to be anything beyond the pass/fail, but if you do, grafting in MRQ's heroic abilities is indeed probably your best bet.

[soltakss]

There are a number of things I would lift from RQM and slot into BRP.

The magic system, Legendary Abilities, Hero Points, the really simple way they handle enchantments, the really simple way they handle customising armour and equipment, rules for making armour from thick skin, customising ships and half the other rules from Pirates.

Some of that is OGL, some isn't, which is a shame.

I haven't read the full version of BRP yet but I would guess that there will be things that would slot into RQM as well. The halfway house would be a cracker of a rules set - the best bits of RQM and the best bits of BRP.

[soltakss]

Mythic Russia is well worth getting, for the atmosphere, the streamlined HeroQuest rules, for the background and the look and feel. It's storytelling gaming but with a really hard edge to it and should appeal to all kinds of gamers.

[Newt]

The stuff I would use in a BRP game from MRQ,

• The separation of skills into Basic (which everyone knows) and Advanced (skills which only professionals know)
  
• Their implementation of Hero Points.