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David Scott

The Praxian Tradition

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25 minutes ago, pachristian said:

I did not see the Horned Man, or Oakfed, on your list. As they are both "Greater Gods of Prax" since Nomad Gods, I would have expected them; Although the Horned Man might be under "Other Hidden Paths". And perhaps Oakfed is offered proprietary worship instead of direct worship. I did like the Horned Man write-up in Mongoose Publishing's Cults of Glorantha book. All in all, this is good work, and an important reference.

The Horned God doesn't have a cult. He's a universal force in Glorantha. He may be contacted by shaman who are able to transcend the spirit world, as he is beyond that. Those who are able to contact him may be taught how to use the Soul Winds.

Oakfed is the primary spirit in the Burners spirit society along with his children the Lowfires.

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Yes, I've always thought of Horned God as more fundamental - best understood as an advanced shamanic initiation, or set of techniques. Related to the Pamaltelan Amuron. They conceive of his powers as a fire rather than a wind, but in reality it is always something beyond physical reality anyway. 

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18 minutes ago, davecake said:

Related to the Pamaltelan Amuron. They conceive of his powers as a fire rather than a wind, but in reality it is always something beyond physical reality anyway. 

They are the same entity. The Horned Man is universal in Glorantha, just with other names. If you can contact him the power he can teach is possibly related to where your culture is from.

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Hmmm.  I just stumbled across the prosopedia and some links therefrom, and the names "Gagarth," "Inora" and the "Horned Man."

Are these now non-canonical?  Or othernames for existing figures already named in the working doc?  Or...?

 

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1 hour ago, g33k said:

Are these now non-canonical?  Or othernames for existing figures already named in the working doc?  Or...?

Gagarth is primarily a member of the Orlanth pantheon though he fights his kin as eagerly as he fights anyone else, and appears in the Praxian pantheon; Inora is also a member of the Orlanth pantheon but appears in Praxian and Troll pantheons; the Horned Man is universal. Like other deities, these can appear in the myths of other pantheons, and the Horned Man appears in all shamanic traditions, though often with a local name or title. Inora is known as the White Princess in Prax; Gagarth is the Wild Hunter in Prax.

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@g33k, they all still exist:

Gagarth, better known as The Wild Hunter is an enemy of the Praxian tradition, that's why he doesn't appear in the doc at the top. Gagarth and his Storm Wolves are basically small groups of bandits outside the Way of Waha. Gagarth is also the source of Whirlvishes (Pavis:GtA p140).

Inora, better known as The White Princess is one of the original units in the Nomad Gods board game. One of the Spirits of Darkness, and now found in the Shadow People society. Her winter [snow] neutralizes the barren chaparral, making her a fertile and wondrous delight to be close to.

The Horned Man is one of the forces of Glorantha, he doesn't have a cult, but is the source of shamanism and its techniques:

Quote

Shamans cannot contact the Horned Man unless they have learned to travel beyond the realms of gods, spirits and powers to Earthmaker, who created the world. Here he welcomes his protégés and will teach the secrets of the Soul Winds to those who would become as great spirits themselves. Many shamans tell the stories of how the Horned Man became the fetch of Earthmaker. 

There are many stories that the Horned Man is the fetch of Glorantha herself.

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What about Ronance cult and oasis people? i think is the great forgotten of suplements and i like to play the role of sacred protector of the old knowledge. Thanks

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Am I correct in assuming that the Earth Rune for Basmol is due to the Pamaltian origins of the cult?

Also - do we have an ETA for Riders of the Storm? (yes, I know, 1971. But I'm asking about your book, not Jim Morrison's.)

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On 5/7/2016 at 9:27 AM, Iskallor said:

Dogs in Prax are more camp animals than hunting partners? Hence Bother Dog under Helpwoman?

I had always assumed that herding = herding dogs. But then I was reading up on the Mongols and learned that they didn't use herding dogs. Nor were herding dogs part of the American cattle drive tradition. Apparently, herding dogs become part of herding tradition when you have a home to go back to, instead of are continuously on the move.

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3 hours ago, kalidor said:

What about Ronance cult and oasis people? i think is the great forgotten of suplements and i like to play the role of sacred protector of the old knowledge.

In my Glorantha, this is what I do.

The Oasis Folk are supported by their Oases. They have water and all the food they can eat, just dropping from trees or living in the ground. So, they don't have to toil, they are lazy and spend their time contemplating the Oasis around them. When nomads come and demand tribute they sigh and give them something from the food stores and go back to resting.

When Tada and Genert were killed, the psyche and myths of the Oasis People were shattered into thousands of fragments. Each oasis holds some of those fragments, especially the ones that relate to them. They also hold other fragments that make no sense to them. So the Spiky Nut Oasis might have a story of how basmol doesn't like the smell of the Brownberry, but there are no brownberries in the Spiky Nut Oasis, so it is just a story. The people of the Brownberry Oasis, however, are plagued by Basmoli and have no idea how to drive them out. I have myths encoded in stories, folk tales, dances, pictures, patterns in rugs and many other things. A HeroQuestor could do something like what Harmast did with the LBQ and visit all the Oases to gather the stories, patterns and so on, to reconstruct the overall myths of Genert and Tada. In fact, that's what an Oasis Folk NPC did in my current campaign, ably assisted by the PCs, he showed the Oasis Folk that they are all part of the same culture.

The Oasis Folk are lazy, as mentioned before. partly this is because the Oases provide all they need, but it goes deeper than that. Just before Tada was killed, he bound the Oases Folk to him, for their safekeeping. He was buried in the Sleeping City and the Oasis Folk went to sleep, well not entirely, they still walk around and do something, but they seem dozy, half asleep, dullards. What happens when they wake up? They will see the stories around them mean something and will understand the stories from other Oases. There is a sickness in Prax that happens as part of the Hero Wars, this puts people to sleep, but doesn't affect the Oasis Folk. Coincidence? I don't think so.

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13 hours ago, soltakss said:

In my Glorantha, this is what I do.

The Oasis Folk are supported by their Oases. They have water and all the food they can eat, just dropping from trees or living in the ground. So, they don't have to toil, they are lazy and spend their time contemplating the Oasis around them. When nomads come and demand tribute they sigh and give them something from the food stores and go back to resting.

When Tada and Genert were killed, the psyche and myths of the Oasis People were shattered into thousands of fragments. Each oasis holds some of those fragments, especially the ones that relate to them. They also hold other fragments that make no sense to them. So the Spiky Nut Oasis might have a story of how basmol doesn't like the smell of the Brownberry, but there are no brownberries in the Spiky Nut Oasis, so it is just a story. The people of the Brownberry Oasis, however, are plagued by Basmoli and have no idea how to drive them out. I have myths encoded in stories, folk tales, dances, pictures, patterns in rugs and many other things. A HeroQuestor could do something like what Harmast did with the LBQ and visit all the Oases to gather the stories, patterns and so on, to reconstruct the overall myths of Genert and Tada. In fact, that's what an Oasis Folk NPC did in my current campaign, ably assisted by the PCs, he showed the Oasis Folk that they are all part of the same culture.

The Oasis Folk are lazy, as mentioned before. partly this is because the Oases provide all they need, but it goes deeper than that. Just before Tada was killed, he bound the Oases Folk to him, for their safekeeping. He was buried in the Sleeping City and the Oasis Folk went to sleep, well not entirely, they still walk around and do something, but they seem dozy, half asleep, dullards. What happens when they wake up? They will see the stories around them mean something and will understand the stories from other Oases. There is a sickness in Prax that happens as part of the Hero Wars, this puts people to sleep, but doesn't affect the Oasis Folk. Coincidence? I don't think so.

What about Ronance? mobility, plant and life runes? he was the ruler of the wastelands, wasnt he?. How can we revive his cult?. Thanks.

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On 1/5/2016 at 9:30 PM, David Scott said:

Chris Klug over on G+ asked for a list of Praxian gods with their runes. This prompted me to update my work-in-progress structure of the Praxian Tradition that I'm using for the Prax book. Some of the societies are mentioned in HeroQuest Glorantha, and this PNG puts them into the structure I'm using.

Praxian Tradition structure v2.png

Where is Ronance in the picture? Thanks

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2 minutes ago, kalidor said:

Where is Ronance in the picture

Ronance an associated cult of Eiritha spirits as per Cults of Prax, page 30. He's one of the Paps spirits. As a son of Ernalda and Tada (see genealogy on page 31), he was the god of fertility to the people of the Golden Age. He embodied a specific part of the fertility of Genert's Garden, much as Tada's Loincloth did. When Tada was killed and his loincloth lost, much of Ronance's power was lost too. Now he lives between Ronance Well and the Paps:

Quote

This movement spirit provides charms that relate to following his magical roads and finding animal fodder. It is sometimes possible to summon his chariot to ride in. 

 

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18 hours ago, kalidor said:

What about Ronance cult and oasis people? i think is the great forgotten of suplements and i like to play the role of sacred protector of the old knowledge. Thanks

The Oasis folks origins is varied, made up of many people who survived the Great Darkness with the help of an Oasis spirit. The bulk of the people were likely the remnants of Tada's followers, but not exclusively so. Ronance was once a Fertility god, but no more since the death of Tada. Now the fertility of the Oases is reliant on a mixture of once powerful spirits.

Have a look at the oases entries in the Guide to see their variety. Here's the current writeup of them (the river people are also part of this section, they are the fishers and the oases folk the farmers under HeroQuest Glorantha).

Quote

The Oasis folk are indigenous to the Wastelands and have descended from survivors of times before the Darkness. They speak their own unique language, but most also speak Tradetalk. Although without martial traditions, they are popularly regarded as unenterprising and dull-witted by the nomads, these folk have endured in the Wastelands for centuries. Called Ground people by the nomads, they never ride.

Oasis People practice horticulture raising small crops without ploughing. They raise a mixture of small animals, grains, roots, and fruit trees and bushes. There are 20000 Oasis People in the Wastelands spread between about 100 oases. Occasional oases have populations as large as 400, but most are smaller.

Most communities are primitive in appearance, scattered adobe huts with small grain fields and vegetable patches clustered around a an oasis or fertile margin valley of the Eiritha Hills. These native farmers have always been dominated by the nomad tribes; each community buys security from a nomad protector through tribute of foodstuffs and crude crafts. Occasional Oasis People are traded as slaves and end up making a better life for themselves.

Patron Deities: Oasis spirit, Ernalda, 48 Old ones, Three Bean Circus, Daka Fal, Ronance.

Simon has developed his own backstory, which fits nicely with the above.

Edited by David Scott
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1 hour ago, kalidor said:

What about Ronance? mobility, plant and life runes? he was the ruler of the wastelands, wasnt he?. How can we revive his cult?. Thanks.

My pcs are currently at the Painted Wall looking for clues about this. They will visit both the Paps and Ronance's Well too. They have found a copy of his chariot, which can either harness Earth Serpents or Water serpents (as in the rivers of the Wastes)

Edited by Iskallor

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1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Ronance an associated cult of Eiritha spirits as per Cults of Prax, page 30. He's one of the Paps spirits. As a son of Ernalda and Tada (see genealogy on page 31), he was the god of fertility to the people of the Golden Age. He embodied a specific part of the fertility of Genert's Garden, much as Tada's Loincloth did. When Tada was killed and his loincloth lost, much of Ronance's power was lost too. Now he lives between Ronance Well and the Paps:

 

So, no Life rune in his cult (his fertility powers came from Tada himself)... probably movement + plant + harmony as the great ruler of the wastelands ? what do you think? i am trying to heroquest to get his cult back...from a certain point of view ;)

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Ronance was never the great ruler of the Wastelands. That was Genert. Ronance would not have three runes either now, but is associated with the Movement rune. Though in your Glorantha he can have any. Fertility does seem right, but as David points out, he is a mere shade of what he used to be.

 

A heroquest to return those lost powers would be great. Finding Tada's loincloth would be one route. The other would be to encourage him to begin travelling between all the oasis, opening up his lost pathways and thus reuniting the many scattered peoples.

 

My pcs will have to coax him out of the Paps first. 

Edited by Iskallor
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20 minutes ago, kalidor said:

So, no Life rune in his cult (his fertility powers came from Tada himself)... probably movement + plant + harmony as the great ruler of the wastelands ? what do you think? i am trying to heroquest to get his cult back...from a certain point of view

In the current edit Ronance has only the Movement rune. He was a god of fertility, but no more. He's certainly not a three rune god IMO and was never the great ruler of the wastelands Yes I believe his fertility powers came from his father and were somehow linked.

As for you game - of course you can heroquest to try and reestablish his cult. I'm pretty sure however that unless the fertility of the Garden is found again, it won't be the same. Bear in mind also the the Cults of Prax writeup was very small -

Quote

Ronance is a son of Ernalda who taught men the secrets of plants and the mystical pathways of the cult. lIe is still useful in finding the way across the seeming trackless wastes. for his secret paths have their manifestations upon the desert. He has one skill known to the whole cult (Find Fodder) and one Spell: ONE POINT SPELL - PATHWAY

Likewise Nomad Gods:

Quote

 

Ronance is the god of fertility who was once the mainstay of the people of the Golden Age. His mere presence is inspirational to normal humans, and though his immortal chariot never touches the Earth, the ground beneath him is rich in growing edible things. It is said that an ancient magical road system, now lost, was made by the runnels of his wheels

Though a Spirit, Ronance may not attack magically at all. He does support three units and increase the MF of any stack he is with by adding three hexes per turn. 

 

Don't forget that if you don't have access to Nomad Gods, you can get a pdf of the rulebook that includes this info as part of the Khan of Khans kickstarter:

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1 hour ago, Iskallor said:

Ronance was never the great ruler of the Wastelands. That was Genert. Ronance would not have three runes either now, but is associated with the Movement rune. Though in your Glorantha he can have any. Fertility does seem right, but as David points out, he is a mere shade of what he used to be.

 

A heroquest to return those lost powers would be great. Finding Tada's loincloth would be one route. The other would be to encourage him to begin travelling between all the oasis, opening up his lost pathways and thus reuniting the many scattered peoples.

 

My pcs will have to coax him out of the Paps first. 

Thanks to you and David for your answers to clarify this topic. I  will keep Ronance with the Movility/Change rune and heroquest to get Harmony ( Ronance is the god of fertility who was once the mainstay of the people of the Golden Age. His mere presence is inspirational to normal human) for him. Not very usefull in the wastelands but will help Tada-shi to survive nomads violence and keep people in oasis communities united.

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I thing getting Ronance on your side is certainly a requirement for helping return the Wastes to it's former glory.

I'd pretend to be his wife and entice him out of retirement with a promise of some nooky.

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32 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

I thing getting Ronance on your side is certainly a requirement for helping return the Wastes to it's former glory.

I'd pretend to be his wife and entice him out of retirement with a promise of some nooky.

I am looking at the Eirithan Geneology on page 31 on Cults of Prax.  So who is Ronance's wife?  I hope it isn't some of that weird deity incest stuff, like it being Ernalda (who is his mom) or one of the Protectresses (who are his nieces).  Somebody should go on a hero quest to tell the deities of Prax that a healthy family tree doesn't look like that and they should stop behaving like creepy hillbillies :)  Bags not it.

I am personally a bit more impressed by The Good Sheperd and his rather useful spell Seal Spirit, which apparently doesn't summon the ghost of an aggressive bull elephant seal to wreak havoc on Eiritha's enemies as you might expect, but actually brings people back from the dead.  Humakti out there will be pleased to note that as it hasn't specifically been referred to in their cult write-up in capital letters, Seal Spirit can be used to bring them back from the dead.  Sarcasm Alert.

Edited by Darius West
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On 1/5/2016 at 9:30 PM, David Scott said:

Chris Klug over on G+ asked for a list of Praxian gods with their runes. This prompted me to update my work-in-progress structure of the Praxian Tradition that I'm using for the Prax book. Some of the societies are mentioned in HeroQuest Glorantha, and this PNG puts them into the structure I'm using.

Praxian Tradition structure v2.png

What about Getenak and Mani's people? can you elaborate?. Thanks

 

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3 hours ago, kalidor said:

What about Getenak and Mani's people? can you elaborate?. Thanks

Mani is part of the Pavic Tradition, see the sidebar of Pavis: GtA p11 for some info of his man rune based spirit society. There's more scattered through the book's text.

Getenak is Ian Thompson's creation, but if you wanted to include him in your Glorantha, he'd fit as:

Quote

Many of the spirits around Mani’s Fort have ancient pacts with him and can be called upon by his spirit society. 

None of Ian's work is included in the canon, but that doesn't mean it's not usable in your games.

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