M Helsdon Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 5 hours ago, David Scott said: Most gods succumbed to death at some point or chose to enter the underworld voluntarily to aid in the final battle. I think it's most likely he followed his father Storm Bull to be at his side when the Devil arrived. Apologies, but both Cults of Prax and HeroQuest Glorantha state that Waha was born at the end of the Gods War, after his father had slain the Devil and long after his mother was hidden beneath the earth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 hour ago, M Helsdon said: Apologies, but both Cults of Prax and HeroQuest Glorantha state that Waha was born at the end of the Gods War, after his father had slain the Devil and long after his mother was hidden beneath the earth. Fortunately time isn't linear in the God Time. Questions like how was he conceived also arise. Different Khans will have different stories, based on the Tasks they've done and their experience. Look carefully and you may find that most of Waha's mythology was established after time began. Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tindalos Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 hour ago, M Helsdon said: Apologies, but both Cults of Prax and HeroQuest Glorantha state that Waha was born at the end of the Gods War, after his father had slain the Devil and long after his mother was hidden beneath the earth. My guess is the answer here is one of those annoying "Yes" ones. Waha's around during the Silver Age, the era where not-quite-pre-time blends with not-quite-time, To hypothesise wildly: After the battle with the Devil, Storm Bull uses the last of his strength to bear a son with the sleeping Eiritha, before he dies at/as the Storm Hills. Waha becomes the uniter, performing his great deeds, bringing together the lands and peoples of the wastes, becoming their culture hero. Then at the grand old age of... let's go with 100, (it's a nice mythically round figure,) Waha's on his deathbed, goes off with his bag of goods to die heroically fighting Chaos. This allows him to end up in the Underworld, with his father, all the other fallen gods, and the Devil, as Grandmother Spider's binding things together. He gets to hand her the bag which allows her to unite the Cosmos together (The Wastes, and the bits outside it which are good for raiding) while he gets to aid his father in fighting the Devil. This brings the Great Compromise, the end of the Silver Age, the beginning of Time, and a (relatively) united Prax. 7 hours ago, David Scott said: It's not a key part of his mythology, so glossed over. Most gods succumbed to death at some point or chose to enter the underworld voluntarily to aid in the final battle. I think it's most likely he followed his father Storm Bull to be at his side when the Devil arrived. There is certainly a Task called Waha and the Net that enables khans to attach thinks to the Wasrelands. Early in the First Age, lots of Hidden Greens were added back. Clearly you have to take the strings to the Underworld to do this. Maybe this is what Jaldon's been trying to do with Dragon Pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonL Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 The impression I got from reading about Waha and his net with Spider Grandmother was that it was happening in Prax concurrently with the gods in the Underworld and Arachne Solara's web, with all things being drawn up in the middle between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/5/2016 at 9:40 PM, Bohemond said: This raises a question for me about the Hero and the Grove quest, which is written to have three levels: Orlanth, Heart, and Colymar. If PCs choose to do the Colymar/Easy Difficulty level, aren't they Heroquesting in Time? I thought it was possible to quest to replicate historical events as a way to strengthen one's chance of accomplishing something similar. Sure, you can HeroQuest within Time, most HeroQuests are within Time. You just overlay the HeroQuest over your particular situation and "pretend" that the places you visit are the God Time places. However, that is not HeroQuesting to an event in Time and then jumping off to go to that time period. They are very different things. 1 Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 On 12/6/2016 at 5:08 PM, JonL said: Reading through Pavis: Gateway to Adventure, Waha sure seemed to get into a lot of tussles within Time during the 2nd Age. If the stories are to be taken literally, is that any different than when Orlanth steps into Time?. Surviving throughout the Great Darkness, Waha wasn't directly a party to the Great Compromise the way that that Yelm's Court and the Lightbringers were, though he somehow did team up with Arachne Solara/Grandmother Spider in drawing the world together in his-net/her-web (if that's not to much of a God-Learner syncreticism). I think that where "Waha did something" it was probably a Khan Incarnating Waha, but where "Someone did something to Waha", it might have been a Hero making a direct attack on Waha. Pavis tearing out Waha's hamstrings, then healing him at the Paps was probably a direct attack on the god Waha, in God Time, as a HeroQuest. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 13 hours ago, M Helsdon said: Apologies, but both Cults of Prax and HeroQuest Glorantha state that Waha was born at the end of the Gods War, after his father had slain the Devil and long after his mother was hidden beneath the earth. Waha was born in the Grey Age and united Praxians under the Covenant, but this was still in God Time and still before the Compromise. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 19 hours ago, Tindalos said: Maybe this is what Jaldon's been trying to do with Dragon Pass. It's a good idea, Jaldon was (a reluctant) Paps Khan, but has more to do with his death, dismemberment and curse at the hands of the EWF. Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 8 hours ago, soltakss said: Waha was born in the Grey Age and united Praxians under the Covenant, but this was still in God Time and still before the Compromise. But after the Devil was buried under the Block... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 37 minutes ago, M Helsdon said: But after the Devil was buried under the Block... It might have taken a while for the Devil to reach Hell. However, Waha was born before the Dawn, so definitely still in God Time. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachristian Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I think we're still trying to impose our own linear thinking into godtime. Concepts like "before" and "after" don't matter. Think of it as being like a pre-Dallas American TV show, in an endless cycle of reruns: It doesn't matter which episode you watch or in what order, as everything begins and ends with the same situation. (Watch, now I will be jumped on by TV purists who will find episodes from their favorite show where one definitely followed the other...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 1 hour ago, pachristian said: I think we're still trying to impose our own linear thinking into godtime. Concepts like "before" and "after" don't matter. Think of it as being like a pre-Dallas American TV show, in an endless cycle of reruns: It doesn't matter which episode you watch or in what order, as everything begins and ends with the same situation. (Watch, now I will be jumped on by TV purists who will find episodes from their favorite show where one definitely followed the other...) <stretches pachristian like a trampoline, preparatory to all the jumping-on ... > Offhand, I think there are a few counter-examples (but only a few). For example, in Star Trek "Errand of Mercy," Kirk&Co visit the planet Organia, where peace unexpectedly breaks out (despite Federation & Klingon war-fleets coming with plans to rumble); later in "Trouble with Tribbles" we learn that the "Organian Peace Treaty" is actually a Thing, now... Occasionally, RL cast-changes were actually noted in the show with plotline events, but often enough they just re-cast another actor... Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Weihe Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 39 minutes ago, pachristian said: Think of it as being like a pre-Dallas American TV show, in an endless cycle of reruns: It doesn't matter which episode you watch or in what order, as everything begins and ends with the same situation. (Watch, now I will be jumped on by TV purists who will find episodes from their favorite show where one definitely followed the other...) Your wish is my command. Peyton Place was a prime-time soap ages before Dallas (not that I watched it, first run). Also, many long running series had ordering by season, if not within any particular season. My Three Sons had more than 3 sons, after all :-) Bringing it back to Glorantha, there is clearly a rough ordering of GodTime events, if only by Ages. Waha was not born before the Storm Bull, for an obvious example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelm's Light Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 That's mortals trying to impose order on what they can only describe based on their own preconceptions (i.e., within Time). The God Time is without any such order, because there was no Time. All events occurring in the God Time may as well be simultaneous as far as mortals are concerned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachristian Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, g33k said: <stretches pachristian like a trampoline, preparatory to all the jumping-on ... > Offhand, I think there are a few counter-examples (but only a few). For example, in Star Trek "Errand of Mercy," Kirk&Co visit the planet Organia, where peace unexpectedly breaks out (despite Federation & Klingon war-fleets coming with plans to rumble); later in "Trouble with Tribbles" we learn that the "Organian Peace Treaty" is actually a Thing, now... Occasionally, RL cast-changes were actually noted in the show with plotline events, but often enough they just re-cast another actor... I todja so! but the key point remains that mortals trying to exploit a sequence of events in god time, and relate it to the flow of time in the world, is Rules-lawyering on an epic scale. Reminds me of a player, long ago, who was trying to sell me on something he wanted his Humakti character to get away with. He quoted "by the rules...' and "if this then, logically, that...' for some time. Finally I said to him: "Go ahead, play semantics games with the god of death. See where that gets you." Edited December 11, 2016 by pachristian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tindalos Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 If you're illuminated, it gets you exactly what you want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachristian Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 On 12/11/2016 at 8:51 AM, Tindalos said: If you're illuminated, it gets you exactly what you want. No, it gets you exactly what you are given... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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