Big Rubble Maps

[soltakss]

I am looking at expanding my Big Rubble map and was sure that I had seen a fan-produced map of the Troll areas of the Big Rubble, once upon a time. It showed where the main troll clans were in the Big Rubble and had some of the ruins, like the Krang's table map but less detailed. Does anyone know where this map is? I am sure I haven't dreamed it.

Also, are there any maps of the different areas of the Big Rubble in more detail? I have the Ian Thomson maps already, which are very detailed but non-canonical. Hopefully someone will know of a treasure trove of maps online.

[soltakss]

I have almost finished my image map of New Pavis and would like to know if anyone knows the names of some missing streets.

• Unnamed Street 1 - Runs from Sun Court, around the Yelmalio Temple (S-21), between S-34 and S-41, then between S-36 and S-42/S-44, ending on Missile Street.
• Unnamed Street 2 - Ends in Overseer Street, between S-85/S-89 and S-82/S-84/P-6/P-7.
• Unnamed Street 3 - Between D-44/D-49 and D-52/D-57, joining Second Street.
• Unnamed Street 4 - Running from Drop Steet to Thane Street, between H-25-H-28 and H-29/H-32
• Unnamed Street 5 - Ending in Salt Street, between F-27/F30 and F-31 /F-35.
• Unnamed Street 6 - Surrounded by H-1 to H-9, H-14, H-15 and H-18, enters Holy Street

I could just make names up for these, but wondered if anyone knew what they are actually called.

 

Also, we have First, Second and Fourth Street, but not a Third Street, does anyone know where Third Street is, or was?

Edited March 11, 2017 by soltakss

[soltakss]

Well, the image map of New Pavis is ready, I am just waiting on feedback from Moon Design before I put it live.

[Byll]

An unhelpful blank from me but I'm commenting to show my interest...

Unnamed street 1  - No idea     (I've been calling it Horsehead Lane because it's on the far side of Sun Court from Horseleg Lane

Unnamed Street 2 - No idea     (I call it Foreman Court)

Unnamed Street 3 - No idea    but it's a good candidate for Third Street

Unnamed Street 4 - No Idea    (I treat it as an extension of Safe Way) Is there a name for the next street northwest (H30/H33 H35/H34)?

Unnamed Street 5 - No idea   (I like the name Vinegar Alley but that's just my sense of humour)

Unnamed Street 6 - No idea   (I call it The Cloisters which may be inaccurate because it's not closed off, Temples can house priests and guests in there)

And what about the un-numbered building between the Guild Hall and Erigio's, In my references it's not part of Downtown or Public Quarter

[soltakss]

7 hours ago, Byll said:

An unhelpful blank from me but I'm commenting to show my interest...

Unnamed street 1  - No idea     (I've been calling it Horsehead Lane because it's on the far side of Sun Court from Horseleg Lane

Unnamed Street 2 - No idea     (I call it Foreman Court)

Unnamed Street 3 - No idea    but it's a good candidate for Third Street

Unnamed Street 4 - No Idea    (I treat it as an extension of Safe Way) Is there a name for the next street northwest (H30/H33 H35/H34)?

Unnamed Street 5 - No idea   (I like the name Vinegar Alley but that's just my sense of humour)

Unnamed Street 6 - No idea   (I call it The Cloisters which may be inaccurate because it's not closed off, Temples can house priests and guests in there)

And what about the un-numbered building between the Guild Hall and Erigio's, In my references it's not part of Downtown or Public Quarter

Thanks for the ideas.

I will probably put Unnamed Street 3 as Third Street, as it is about the right place and both have a "3" in the name. 

Unnamed Street 4 is the end of Safe Way, it's obvious when pointed out.

I treat H30/H33 to H35/H34 as an extension of Thane Street.

The unnumbered building is the Pavis Temple (P-31) (Pavis & Big Rubble p25), home to various priests and headquarters of various Pavic military groups.

The other names sound good, so unless anyone knows what they are, officially, I might just use them.

[David Scott]

Hopefully you've seen this version of New Pavis:

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/map-of-new-pavis/

 

[7Tigers]

On 19/02/2017 at 1:46 AM, soltakss said:

I am looking at expanding my Big Rubble map and was sure that I had seen a fan-produced map of the Troll areas of the Big Rubble, once upon a time. It showed where the main troll clans were in the Big Rubble and had some of the ruins, like the Krang's table map but less detailed. Does anyone know where this map is? I am sure I haven't dreamed it.

It seems it was a quite confidential work...

Edited March 13, 2017 by 7Tigers

[Byll]

Does anyone know of a map of the immediate vicinity of New Pavis that covers more of the area to the northwest? Ideally something about 5 times the scale of the New Pavis map, with more of the river bank contours upstream and downstream.

Are there any Big Rubble maps with line contours?

[Jon Hunter]

"Rubble maps, I know a man who can, not your usually rubbish."

"The real deal, not the two clack stuff sold to every ignorant carpetbagger, or the boring formal stuff you get from the temples.

These are old maps from the days before the trolls came. I will be at gimpy's and bring Gold."

Edited March 14, 2017 by Jon Hunter

[soltakss]

On 3/12/2017 at 7:59 PM, David Scott said:

Hopefully you've seen this version of New Pavis:

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/map-of-new-pavis/

 

Yes, it is very nice indeed.

However, it is missing all the above streets, as it is based on the old Chaosium maps that also miss the streets. It has no numbered buildings, which is a real pain.

It is also something that I cannot amend or add to, so is not really suitable for my needs.

Edited March 15, 2017 by soltakss

[Byll]

On ‎12‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 7:59 PM, David Scott said:

Hopefully you've seen this version of New Pavis:

http://www.glorantha.com/docs/map-of-new-pavis/

 

I like the different colours used on different building, and its afternoon shadows are a nice thought, but in my opinion they're iffy on one-storey / two storey status. The second storey bordure notation in the original maps is no longer in the key, and this seems to have caused confusion in some areas (for example, the lunar barracks looks to me like a medium sized one storey building in a walled compound, not like a large two storey building with a third storey extension at the front, and  the second story of Eskos's Stable has become a courtyard).

[Noita]

Having street names is really handy as are house numbers.

[Byll]

On 3/14/2017 at 9:44 PM, Jon Hunter said:

"Rubble maps, I know a man who can, not your usually rubbish."

"The real deal, not the two clack stuff sold to every ignorant carpetbagger, or the boring formal stuff you get from the temples.

These are old maps from the days before the trolls came. I will be at gimpy's and bring Gold."

Maps....

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3XfN1n6nHNg

Here, take my gold

Edited March 19, 2017 by Byll

[Noita]

6 hours ago, Byll said:

Maps....

https://www.youtube.com/embed/3XfN1n6nHNg

Here, take my gold

What is the building it ends up in?

[Noita]

Doh. Gimpy's.

[soltakss]

I have added a couple of image maps for New Pavis and the Big Rubble.

The maps are in a format that I can easily amend, so I hope to be expanding them in the future.

I am looking for comments/criticism/etc, so please feel free to reply here or PM me, whichever suits.

Apologies for the quality of the artwork, I have the very basic 5% default skill in drawing and it shows.

Edited April 1, 2017 by soltakss

[Yelm's Light]

Coolness...basically combining the city and neighborhood maps (for New Pavis, that is).

[Pentallion]

It's awesome and has inspired me to make a full scale Rol20 map.  Well, several, actually, since the BR will be too large to load onto a single page.  New Pavis should fit nicely, however.  My only critique is that you can't copy the images.  My old eyes can't see that tiny picture so well and I wanted to paste it onto Irfanview so I could enlarge it.

[g33k]

5 hours ago, Pentallion said:

My old eyes can't see that tiny picture so well and I wanted to paste it onto Irfanview so I could enlarge it.

Does your browser not have a "Zoom" feature?  Works just fine for me (and I too am facing the "old eyes" problem) in Chrome, Zoom'ing and not needing to cut&paste...

[Darius West]

Here is a question.  Old Pavis used to be a huge city.  What were their burial customs, and where are their cemeteries?  And for that matter, where are New Pavis' cemeteries?  I hear some unscrupulous scoundrels in the region make their money from robbing tombs...

[Joerg]

The tomb robbers are after imperial age grave goods rather than the poor grave goods of recent settlers and exiles.

 

As for the human inhabitants of Pavis, their funerary customs will vary by origin.

I suppose that the survivors of the Rubble had house burials, in the floor of their houses, or in catacombs. Big funerary pyres or exposure to birds would have equaled exposure to trolls (which does help getting rid of the corpse, but also of the grieving survivors).

They would have refrained from eating the corpses directly, but in harsh times I could imagine them foraging on the insects feasting on their dead.

Some might have sent their dead to the trolls as tribute.

The Sartarite-descended males would have to import fuel for funerary pyres, or else join their females in earth burials. No idea where that would be, but given the flintnail cult specialty in quarrying and mining, catacombs are a possibility under New Pavis, too.

Sun Domers face the same problems as Sartarites with regard to fuel. Given their access to salt, they might practice mummification, instead, and possibly a delayed cremation of the mummy (which provides much of its own fuel). Exposure to the vultures (creatures of fire, if not actual fire) might be another possibility before giving the bones a burial.

Riverfolk will probably have boat burials, returning their dead to the river.

Nomad-descended Pavisites might take their dead to the chaparral to perform whichever rites their former tribes had, returning them to Eiritha one way or the other..

Resident Lunars such as the Patroma family will have secured their own burial arrangements, as much in keeping with the customs of their old homelands as possible, but in the city. Lunar officials sent here as part of their duty might have their mortal remains sent back to their homelands. Lunar soldiers dying in the course of their duties (and retrieved by their comrades) would be subject to regimental burial customs.

[Darius West]

51 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The tomb robbers are after imperial age grave goods rather than the poor grave goods of recent settlers and exiles.

Agreed.  But where are they?  Temple Hill in Troll Turf?

52 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Big funerary pyres or exposure to birds would have equaled exposure to trolls (which does help getting rid of the corpse, but also of the grieving survivors).

I dare say that troll exposure is very few humans' idea of a good funerary practice

54 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Sartarite-descended males would have to import fuel for funerary pyres, or else join their females in earth burials. No idea where that would be, but given the flintnail cult specialty in quarrying and mining, catacombs are a possibility under New Pavis, too.

I had a novel idea.  Perhaps the native Pavisites practice "home burials"?  The notion being that where better for the dead to rest than among their living family where they can offer spiritual protection?  This has parallels around our world.  So you pull up a few floorboards or crack the oxblood "cob" caulking, perform your rituals, inter the dead with their goods, and then re-seal the floor.  It would explain the lack of a burial site, and would fit in well with the feminine cults as well as with Pavis's Earth rune.  The other thing is, in the classical world you often fed shades on blood, so re-cobbing the floor with fresh ox-blood would serve a dual purpose, and the family would be allowed to grieve while staying with family and friends while the floor dried for a day.  All part of the ritual.  

On the other hand, I also think Flintnail catacombs are too good an opportunity to miss.  The notion of something like the Paris Catacombs under Pavis... but plus treasure...

[Byll]

27 minutes ago, Darius West said:

On the other hand, I also think Flintnail catacombs are too good an opportunity to miss.  The notion of something like the Paris Catacombs under Pavis... but plus treasure...

...and Flintnail quality traps

[Joerg]

2 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Agreed.  But where are they?  Temple Hill in Troll Turf?

Pavis:GtA has the rubble maps throughout its history. Given the multicultural nature of the city, the various groups would have found solutions for their own folk, accessible from where they lived.

2 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I dare say that troll exposure is very few humans' idea of a good funerary practice

Beats sending them your children, as has been part of Arkat's Command/the Kitori tribute when the other traditional payments couldn't be met.

2 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I had a novel idea.  Perhaps the native Pavisites practice "home burials"?  

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

I suppose that the survivors of the Rubble had house burials, in the floor of their houses

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

2 minutes ago, Darius West said:

The notion being that where better for the dead to rest than among their living family where they can offer spiritual protection?  This has parallels around our world.  So you pull up a few floorboards or crack the oxblood "cob" caulking, perform your rituals, inter the dead with their goods, and then re-seal the floor.  It would explain the lack of a burial site, and would fit in well with the feminine cults as well as with Pavis's Earth rune.  The other thing is, in the classical world you often fed shades on blood, so re-cobbing the floor with fresh ox-blood would serve a dual purpose, and the family would be allowed to grieve while staying with family and friends while the floor dried for a day.  All part of the ritual.  

Something like this (though in less detail) was my intention, yes. I did mention catacombs as an alternative because unlike in the Real World, the Big Rubble survivors didn't usually get to rebuild their houses every few generations, providing new space for the next generations of corpses.

Then there is the nutritional value of the corpses. Eating them directly would be yucky in the extreme, but eating the carrion eaters - especially in the shape of oversized maggots like of the troll domesticated giant insects - would be a less appalling though still quite unpleasant way of survival.

2 minutes ago, Darius West said:

On the other hand, I also think Flintnail catacombs are too good an opportunity to miss.  The notion of something like the Paris Catacombs under Pavis... but plus treasure...

An alternative would be bone-houses that were part of the temple districts.

The quality of grave goods would correlate to the wealth and health of the city. After the wall breaks, you would see a distinct loss of quality, and the Dragonkill would have ended all influx of Kerofinelan items, after a sudden loss of new draconic items eighty years earlier.

[g33k]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

The tomb robbers are after imperial age grave goods rather than the poor grave goods of recent settlers and exiles.

I expect that for the sufficiently impoverished/desperate/etc, any grave goods at all have some value; even if they saw the burial just a day or two previously.  But of course those grave-robbers aren't the same folks as the "brave adventurers" who cross into the Rubble...  Of course...