KingofElfland Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Right, this is RuneQuest, not 13th Age Glorantha. Both are great, but they are different games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicureanDM Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 On 2/21/2019 at 7:57 AM, Jason Durall said: This cannot be emphasized enough. If you want to play a combatant, then Vishi Dunn, an assistant shaman, is a poor choice. His preferred ranged combat tactic is to point at something and say "Cousin Monkey, go kill that." His best combat option is to entangle a foe with his pole lasso and have Cousin Monkey take that foe out with his spear. This sort of information (written just like this) should be provided along with the stats for pregen characters. Players who are new to RQ (especially in a con scenario) should be given explicit, practical guidance on how to make effective use of their character, especially when modern gamers largely have no experience with game systems like RQG. Why risk disappointing a potential customer because they can't figure out what makes Vishi Dunn interesting to play? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 6 hours ago, EpicureanDM said: This sort of information (written just like this) should be provided along with the stats for pregen characters. Players who are new to RQ (especially in a con scenario) should be given explicit, practical guidance on how to make effective use of their character, especially when modern gamers largely have no experience with game systems like RQG. Why risk disappointing a potential customer because they can't figure out what makes Vishi Dunn interesting to play? This is not my experience of running con scenarios with new players. I actually use the pregens in place of the provided adventurers in one of our con scenarios. Out of the choice of characters, Vishi Dun is popular, new players often go for "assistant shaman (spirit magician) on giant llama with baboon sidekick". I show them the pictures and have large standees of them. Yanioth and Vostor are essential for the scenario, so aren't included, but the others in order of popularity: Harmast - "Trader and farmer. When talk fails he can fight. Rides a zebra" Vishi Dun - "Spirit magician on giant llama with baboon sidekick" Vasana - "Armoured warrior woman who rides a bison" Sorala - "Sorcerous scholarly woman in search of new lore" Nathem - "Stealthy hunter who can turn into a bear. Has a hunting cat. Most just want to play and have fun, so providing more than a character sheet is too much info. I provide an extra page with the magic and its %s clearly visible. @Jason Durall the joy of Cousin Monkey is: Quote Follower (Boon Companion): An intelligent baboon called Cousin Monkey, an unapologetic coward. He mostly refuses to fight, Vishi must often force him to help and he's not that good at it. This is one of my favourite roleplaying parts. 1 Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicureanDM Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 8 hours ago, David Scott said: This is not my experience of running con scenarios with new players. I actually use the pregens in place of the provided adventurers in one of our con scenarios. Out of the choice of characters, Vishi Dun is popular, new players often go for "assistant shaman (spirit magician) on giant llama with baboon sidekick". I show them the pictures and have large standees of them. Yanioth and Vostor are essential for the scenario, so aren't included, but the others in order of popularity: Harmast - "Trader and farmer. When talk fails he can fight. Rides a zebra" Vishi Dun - "Spirit magician on giant llama with baboon sidekick" Vasana - "Armoured warrior woman who rides a bison" Sorala - "Sorcerous scholarly woman in search of new lore" Nathem - "Stealthy hunter who can turn into a bear. Has a hunting cat. Most just want to play and have fun, so providing more than a character sheet is too much info. I provide an extra page with the magic and its %s clearly visible. I defer to your experience, which obviously differs from that of the OP. However, I don't see any conflict between having fun and providing guidance to brand new players on how the RQ system contains some interesting mechanical options that might not be obvious to D&D players. Providing an extra page with magic and %'s doesn't seem like the same thing I'm advocating for. I could be wrong, so if you shared the contents of one of those extra pages, I'd have a better idea of where you're coming from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 On 3/11/2019 at 10:40 AM, David Scott said: This is not my experience of running con scenarios with new players. I actually use the pregens in place of the provided adventurers in one of our con scenarios. Out of the choice of characters, Vishi Dun is popular, new players often go for "assistant shaman (spirit magician) on giant llama with baboon sidekick". I show them the pictures and have large standees of them. Yanioth and Vostor are essential for the scenario, so aren't included, but the others in order of popularity: Harmast - "Trader and farmer. When talk fails he can fight. Rides a zebra" Vishi Dun - "Spirit magician on giant llama with baboon sidekick" Vasana - "Armoured warrior woman who rides a bison" Sorala - "Sorcerous scholarly woman in search of new lore" Nathem - "Stealthy hunter who can turn into a bear. Has a hunting cat. Most just want to play and have fun, so providing more than a character sheet is too much info. I provide an extra page with the magic and its %s clearly visible. @Jason Durall the joy of Cousin Monkey is: He mostly refuses to fight, Vishi must often force him to help and he's not that good at it. This is one of my favourite roleplaying parts. Why are Yanioth and Vostor more essential than the other adventurers. (I'm asking this in the context of the Quickstart adventure The Broken Tower, which may not be the scenario, that you have in mind ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, Oracle said: Why are Yanioth and Vostor more essential than the other adventurers. (I'm asking this in the context of the Quickstart adventure The Broken Tower, which may not be the scenario, that you have in mind ...) This for one of our con scenarios, Stealing the Eye. Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 16 hours ago, EpicureanDM said: I could be wrong, so if you shared the contents of one of those extra pages, I'd have a better idea of where you're coming from. The extra sheets are rather boring and just contain magic info, nothing else. However laying it out large give players a superficial understanding of their magic powers. In this case many who play Sorala cast Solace of the Logical Mind for 20-40 mins, but then loose out on Passion augments. This turns out to be a good trade off... Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 12 hours ago, Oracle said: Why are Yanioth In the Broken Tower, Yanioth's ability to engage with the Earth goddess or to utilize Inviolable to counter Fear or Demoralize spells (including Idrima's Faceless Gaze) is really invaluable. She's also strong at countering attacking spirits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpicureanDM Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Thanks for sharing that, @David Scott. Not quite what I was pointing to in my reply, but I like it. Jason's proposed guidance would give an RQ neophyte who's struggling at the table (as in the OP's example) some guidance for how to be effective with Vishi Dunn. Your handout summarizes some spells that might be helpful, but doesn't put the pieces together for a newcomer like Jason's does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 Another thing to watch out for is his Track skill is clearly wrong, 10% when he has a Perception modifier of +15. I'm assuming it's a typo and should be 20%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Darvall Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) On 3/12/2019 at 8:20 PM, David Scott said: The extra sheets are rather boring..... But are an excellent idea which I will now steal for my regular players. Getting players to use the full range of their magic is proving...troublesome. Edit: To which end, does anyone have a list of RQG Rune Spells and/or sorcery spells already compiled? Edited April 9, 2019 by Rob Darvall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 4 hours ago, Rob Darvall said: To which end, does anyone have a list of RQG Rune Spells and/or sorcery spells already compiled? The Core Rune Magic list is in the GM Screen Pack, GM Reference book. Sorcery is alphabetical in the core rules (as is rune magic) Bestiary Rune Magic Doesn't include Dragon Magic (B42) or Dwarf sorcery (B61) Animate War Tree, Plant, 1pt, B27 Appease Earth, Earth /Beast, 1pt, B70 Arrow Trance, Plant / Fire, 1pt, B27 Attack Soul, Darkness, 1pt, B81 Blinding, Darkness, 1pt+, B81 Carry (Disease), Death / Chaos, 2pts, B93 Cause (Disease), Darkness / Chaos, 1pt+, B93 Chameleon, Plant, 2pts, B27 Chaos Feature, Chaos, 3pts, B94 Chaos Spawn, Chaos, 2pts, B94 Counterchaos, Darkness, 2pt, B82 Crack, Chaos, 2pts+, B94 Create Ghost, Death / Darkness, 1pt, B82 Create Revenant, Death / Darkness, 3pt, B82 Create Skeleton, Death / Darkness, 1pt, B82 Create War Tree, Plant, 1pt, B27 Create Zombie, Death / Darkness, 2pt, B82 Crush, Darkness, 1pt+, B82 Curse of Thed, Chaos, 2pts, B94 Darksee, Darkness, 1pt, B82 Death Binding, Death, 1pt, B70 Fumble, Chaos, 1pt+, B95 Pain Tooth, Beast, 2pts, B71 Seal Wound, Death, 2pts, B71 Seal Wound, Death / Disorder, 2pts, B82 Plant Spy, Plant, 1pt, B28 Rebirth of Chaos, Chaos, 3pts, B95 Silence Sphere, Plant, 1pt, B28 Tangle Thicket, Plant, 1pt, B28 Transform Self, Beast, 2pts, B87 Wolfhide, Beast / Chaos, 3pts, B87 Wolfrunning, Beast /Movement, 2pts, B87 Wolf’s Head, Beast, 1pt, B87 Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, David Scott said: The Core Rune Magic list is in the GM Screen Pack, GM Reference book. Sorcery is alphabetical in the core rules (as is rune magic) Bestiary Rune Magic Doesn't include Dragon Magic (B42) or Dwarf sorcery (B61) Animate War Tree, Plant, 1pt, B27 Appease Earth, Earth /Beast, 1pt, B70 Arrow Trance, Plant / Fire, 1pt, B27 Attack Soul, Darkness, 1pt, B81 Blinding, Darkness, 1pt+, B81 Carry (Disease), Death / Chaos, 2pts, B93 Cause (Disease), Darkness / Chaos, 1pt+, B93 Chameleon, Plant, 2pts, B27 Chaos Feature, Chaos, 3pts, B94 Chaos Spawn, Chaos, 2pts, B94 Counterchaos, Darkness, 2pt, B82 Crack, Chaos, 2pts+, B94 Create Ghost, Death / Darkness, 1pt, B82 Create Revenant, Death / Darkness, 3pt, B82 Create Skeleton, Death / Darkness, 1pt, B82 Create War Tree, Plant, 1pt, B27 Create Zombie, Death / Darkness, 2pt, B82 Crush, Darkness, 1pt+, B82 Curse of Thed, Chaos, 2pts, B94 Darksee, Darkness, 1pt, B82 Death Binding, Death, 1pt, B70 Fumble, Chaos, 1pt+, B95 Pain Tooth, Beast, 2pts, B71 Seal Wound, Death, 2pts, B71 Seal Wound, Death / Disorder, 2pts, B82 Plant Spy, Plant, 1pt, B28 Rebirth of Chaos, Chaos, 3pts, B95 Silence Sphere, Plant, 1pt, B28 Tangle Thicket, Plant, 1pt, B28 Transform Self, Beast, 2pts, B87 Wolfhide, Beast / Chaos, 3pts, B87 Wolfrunning, Beast /Movement, 2pts, B87 Wolf’s Head, Beast, 1pt, B87 There is the Red Book, which contains all Rune Spells and all Spirit Magic spells from the Core Rules, the Bestiary, and the Gods and Goddesses book. Plus a few others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 5 hours ago, Rob Darvall said: Edit: To which end, does anyone have a list of RQG Rune Spells and/or sorcery spells already compiled? My character sheet has a list of all the Spirit and Rune spells available to each cult, including through associates, including Bestiary cults, and I've separated it out into its own document:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YJrQ9G1ayO1MehLIa5qUKP4Sb55935pcZz2DSgCWOwk/edit?usp=sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Jeff said: There is the Red Book, which contains all Rune Spells and all Spirit Magic spells from the Core Rules, the Bestiary, and the Gods and Goddesses book. Plus a few others. You've catched me cold here. What's the Red Book? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Tigers Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 9 minutes ago, Oracle said: You've catched me cold here. What's the Red Book? As Jeff said: it seems a Rune/Spirit spells compilation, the equivalent of Cthulhu's The Grand Grimoire of Cthulhu Mythos Magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 hour ago, 7Tigers said: As Jeff said: it seems a Rune/Spirit spells compilation, the equivalent of Cthulhu's The Grand Grimoire of Cthulhu Mythos Magic. Ok, and is this book available anywhere? (Although I guess not. This looks like a convention only printing ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Tigers Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Likely only after Gods & Goddesses of Glorantha is available so sometimes in 2020 I guess (personal guess). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 47 minutes ago, Oracle said: Ok, and is this book available anywhere? (Although I guess not. This looks like a convention only printing ...) Not even that, I don't think anyone outside of the Chaosium team have this yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Darvall Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said: My character sheet has a list of all the Spirit and Rune spells available to each cult, including through associates, including Bestiary cults, and I've separated it out into its own document:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YJrQ9G1ayO1MehLIa5qUKP4Sb55935pcZz2DSgCWOwk/edit?usp=sharing Many thanks Edited April 9, 2019 by Rob Darvall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 15 hours ago, Oracle said: Ok, and is this book available anywhere? (Although I guess not. This looks like a convention only printing ...) Just learned, that The Red Book of Magic is a work in progress (similar to Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha), which is all I need to know, as I've never heard about this book before ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 9 hours ago, Oracle said: Just learned, that The Red Book of Magic is a work in progress (similar to Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha), which is all I need to know, as I've never heard about this book before ... It has been mentioned a few times, I think. GaGoG is actually a complete ms. at this point -- it needs art, it needs layout, it likely needs proofing and other editing; but it's a complete text. RBoM is not text-complete; it's still being written. Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted April 14, 2019 Author Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) Further notes on Vishi Dunn for anyone wanting to play the character. I have found a number of places where the character does not match the rules. This may be because he was originally created under a slightly different iteration, so without intending criticism here are the issues that I have found. He has clearly not taken the bonuses to two cult skills of +15 and +20 each. All of his cult skills are at the value that you get from base, culture, occupation & cult, apart from Peaceful Cut which should be 10 points higher and Meditate should be 5 points lower and so can't be explained by that. Ride High Llama is at 65, but before personal adds it should be at 60, so can't be explained. Should be either 60, 70, or 85. Likewise Animal Lore and Plant lore are both 45, but should be 40. Speak Tradetalk is 20, should be 25. Battle probably has 5% from family background so that's ok. Peaceful Cut should be at least 60, not 50 (base 10, culture 15, cult 20, modifier 15). Meditate is 40, but should be 35. Track is 10, should be 20.. In order to get the rest of the skills to line up, I had to take 7 skills at +10 and 3 at +25, rather than 5 at +10 and 4 at +25. In numerical terms, he's sold short by 40 points. Edited April 14, 2019 by PhilHibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted April 15, 2019 Author Share Posted April 15, 2019 (edited) What options would you present or allow for the player wanting to advance Vishi Dunn to a full shaman? He is more or less outcast from his tribe, and even if he could return to undertake the rite, his responsibilities as a High Llama Tribe shaman would largely preclude his adventuring with the rest of the Colymar party. Contriving to have him return to Clearwine once every season just when something interesting happens, that's going to wear thin. He could switch codes and undertake the shamanic ritual with the local Kolating shamans, but I don't think he wants to do that. He still loves his ancestors, the covenant, and his God-Khan Waha. Or... just ignore the whole "tribal responsibility" thing. That seems to be the approach in the example sections of the book! I suspect that my player is going to give up on Vishi and roll something else so we probably won't have to solve this problem anyway. Edited April 15, 2019 by PhilHibbs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningbrow Posted April 17, 2019 Share Posted April 17, 2019 Personally, I think the problem comes down to his spell selection. While typical and expected for a shaman (and apprentice), they're not great for 90% of the time. And, doesn't help that his boon companion has a couple of cross-overs (Spirit Screen, and Heal, although obviously most would have that). Vishi has Spirit Binding - but no bound spirits... which is odd as it's basically one of the main reasons someone takes a shaman. So - change out a couple of spells (give Befuddle and Demoralize, up the Heal to something useful,, and add Protection or similar). And, lose a couple of POW, and add a Spirit (possibly with the aforementioned spells, and/or others). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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