Seven Mothers Temple Layout & Defenses

[Austin]

I'm writing up a scenario for my RQG game where the adventurers are infiltrating a temple of the Seven Mothers in order to stop a magic ritual. The context is Fire Season 1625, during the campaign in which Argrath's horde of Praxians try to liberate Sartar, shortly before the Dragonrise. My current plan is that the adventurers are being led by a high-ranking (maybe Hero) Orlanthi Wind Lord (I've invited a friend who can't come regularly to sit in on a few sessions playing his old OP RQ3 character) while other forces battle a majority of the followers of the White Bull outside, using gifted Sandals of Darkness (boots with a Dark Walk + Extension 1 matrix) to sneak inside during the commotion.

I really like the section in the core from p.283ff on temples and wyters, which gives advice on temple sizes, defenses, and some sample temple layouts in Glorantha. Is similar information out there for temples of the Seven Mothers? Do they basically have the layout of the Moon Rune? (Going off the sample images of Ernalda and Lhankor Mhy as Earth and Truth, respectively.) I'm planning for this to be a minor temple, with about 400 worshipers, so 4 points special Rune magic dedicated to defense. While I figure 2 castings of Mindblast on non-Lunar cycle worshipers who enter the sanctum makes sense, I'd love other suggestions for temple defenses. I figure the priests and sorcerers will still be inside the temple, or at least some of them, and maybe a token bodyguard?

So far, ideas I have for the temple's enchantment defenses include Warding (of course), Red Moon rocks embedded in the walls at strategic points, and at least one binding enchantment holding a demon (with either a matrix nearby holding a Control Demon spirit magic spell, or with several priests/initiates having the spell learned). Finally, I anticipate that the adventurers will have to tackle the wyter while trying to stop the ritual. I'd love both some more suggestions for types of defenses, as well as ways to make these sorts of things feel especially "Lunar."

I'm also not sure how physically large the temple should be, in addition to its basic layout. With 400 worshipers, does that mean such a temple is usually big enough to actually house that many people in one worship ceremony? I feel like that's not the case, but I'm unsure.

Plot-wise, I expect the players to be smart enough to attack on Waterday or Clayday (they believe the ceremony will end on the following Wildday as the moon becomes full), but I'm currently thinking that I'll use the Crimson Bat to rout Argrath's army, and that its Glowspot and great winds will come into play during the scenario. (No, I don't expect my adventurers to actually fight the Bat; I'm mostly using it because it's the only big mythic monster from the setting they know well enough to recognize from implication.) So the twist is that Lunar magic jumps to full power and they can complete the ritual while the adventurers are present. I don't know if that would affect defenses in addition to "powering up" the guarding priests/initiates, etc.

Other twists I'm thinking about are including a subcult of Irripi Ontor or Jakaleel, or maybe a Lunar College of Sorcery--my initial thought for the ritual is basically a group-cast Moonfire using ritual preparations and the Bat's Glowspot. If y'all have suggestions these ways, I'd love to hear them too.

Thanks so much for the help!

[Shiningbrow]

Not helping a lot, but remember that a minor temple has about 500 Lay Members and Initiates - and the Lay Members aren't likely to be a major part of the ritual (and thus, the minor temple won't need to accommodate all of them at one time).

Secondly, don't Moon Rocks grant the effect of a Full Moon?

Can't go past a good Lune for the Lunies... And Madness.

Bestiary p181/2 & 176

[Austin]

35 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Secondly, don't Moon Rocks grant the effect of a Full Moon?

Can't go past a good Lune for the Lunies... And Madness.

I don't know if moon rocks generate the effect of the moon (AFAIK the only description of them is in the Bestiary where you quoted), but summoning Lunes was the main purpose in my mind for placing rocks around the temple. Checking those pages, there's no price associated (just "expensive"), but a minimum of ENC 6 is required to summon a 1m Lune.

One of the many, many things I feel like I don't know is how many resources would naturally be invested in a minor temple. How much POW should one assume has been spent building defenses, in addition to what the goddess provides? 10? 20? It hasn't been built that long after all (probably sometime after 1605/1610 if I'm guesstimating the timeline correctly).

[David Scott]

We've a number of examples to work from (in no particular order):

Griffin Mountain (Classic) page 45 & 46. Has a map and a good description of the layout. Rectangular with niches for each mother,  looks like the Maison Carrée in Nimes (well worth a visit), although the interior is different.

Pavis & the Big Rubble (Glorantha Classics) In the Public neighbourhood P-14. Shows us a rectangular building with a brief description. In the panorama it appears to have two floors. Pavis GtA has the same but a more detailed description of the shrines and says it's two floors. There's also a section about the Temples of the Reaching Moon and New Lunar Temple in Sartar, that contains a Seven Mother temple amongst others. It refers the reader to The Sartar Companion. 

The Sartar Companion has a chapter on the New Lunar Temple in Sartar. There's a picture of the temple complex. Although there not a Seven Mothers temple here, each mother has thrown. The picture is useful for inspiration. It also describes the temple in Jonstown, and shrines in Clearwine and Runegate.

Glorantha.com has an article of Nochet and a map that you can see the rectangular ruins of the Seven Mothers temple on.

The Guide tells us that Borni’s Landing has a giant walktapus is chained near the village and fed prodigiously by the Seven Mothers temple...

I'm sure I've missed some - but basically they are square or rectangular. 

[David Scott]

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3 hours ago, Crel said:

I'd love other suggestions for temple defenses.

I have a simple table for calculating extra points of defence for temples based on their age. These can be spent on magic items, wyters, regalia, or just spells

[PhilHibbs]

4 hours ago, Crel said:

Do they basically have the layout of the Moon Rune? (Going off the sample images of Ernalda and Lhankor Mhy as Earth and Truth, respectively.)

Certainly not, they aren't ignorant unimaginitive barbarians that just make things in simple rune shapes imagining that that somehow imbues them with power.

[Austin]

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

I have a simple table for calculating extra points of defence for temples based on their age. These can be spent on magic items, wyters, regalia, or just spells

How would you translate those points to wyters? 1pt=1D6 of characteristics/an ability? Also, what's the difference between regalia and magic items?

Thanks for the help.

[HreshtIronBorne]

Wyter Size

Community Members                                   POW      CHA

Shrine, Large Family, or Vexilla 50–100      4D6+6      3D6

Shrine, Village, or Company 101–250       5D6+6      3D6

Minor Temple, Clan, or Regiment 251–1,000      6D6+6      4D6

Major Temple, Small Tribe, Large Town 1,001–3,000       7D6+6      3D6+6

Major Temple, Large Tribe, City 3,001–7,000        8D6+6      5D6

Great Temple or Large City 7,000+       9D6+6      4D6+6

Great Temple or Metropolis 15,000+        10D6+6 6D6

 

Wyters are detailed in the Core Rulebook page 286/7. i think there may also be some details in the Bestiary, and I am sure they have something coming out in the Campaign Guide. Wyters are INCREDIBLY STRONG and versatile. They can use any Rune or Spirit Magic known by the High Priest of the Wyter. It can target 5 Community members for a single POW. a 7 Mothers Wyter would have MAX POW and MP pretty much all the time because of the number of holy days connected to the Wyter. a 42 POW Wyter can cast Shield 10 on 11 members of the Community for 12 POW, making some very tough targets. It is much less powerful offensively, where it cannot mass multitarget but, 42 POW Mindblasts are absolutely devastating. I would suggest having the Orlanthi Hero kick the shit out of it somehow. Otherwise it can easily run over a whole party.
 

[David Scott]

5 minutes ago, Crel said:

How would you translate those points to wyters? 1pt=1D6 of characteristics/an ability?

Wyters work the same as per page 286. I'd use the points to bump it's POW to its maximum for the size it is, a minor temple Wyter's POW has a max of 6D6+6 so bump to 42 as per page 287 (a bit more if you want species max rules to apply).

15 minutes ago, Crel said:

Also, what's the difference between regalia and magic items?

Regalia are magic items, but more so they have a link to the temple and culture we have a couple to look at as examples, Sartar's Regalia (can't find the reference) and the Sun County Regalia (from Sun County RQ3):

Quote

 

Both usable only by the Annointed Count of Sun County, the Light Guide of Sun County, or their freely appointed representative.

Globe of Authority

The Globe's ritual significance grants the bearer a +10% to any Yelmalion ritual skill. If used with the Scepter of Order, the total bonus is 25%. The Globe contains matrices for the following spells: Glamour 4, Command Cult Spirit 1 (x 4), Extension X, Mindlink X, and Sunbright I (x 6). The globe has an ENC of 2.75 and a raw value of 1,650L

Scepter of Order

The Scepter holds the following spells: Spirit Block IX, Shield VII, Sunspear I (x 2), Summon Cult Spirit 1 (x 2), Dismiss Magic VII. The scepter has an ENC of 3.25 and is worth 1,950L for the metal alone.

 

As artifacts, these relics are worth five times as much to a collector and worth the possessor's life if found in his possession by a Sun Dome official.

 

 Clearly these would be different for RQG, perhaps @MOB has thoughts on this.

[MOB]

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

Wyters work the same as per page 286. I'd use the points to bump it's POW to its maximum for the size it is, a minor temple Wyter's POW has a max of 6D6+6 so bump to 42 as per page 287 (a bit more if you want species max rules to apply).

Regalia are magic items, but more so they have a link to the temple and culture we have a couple to look at as examples, Sartar's Regalia (can't find the reference) and the Sun County Regalia (from Sun County RQ3):

 Clearly these would be different for RQG, perhaps @MOB has thoughts on this.

As befits its antiquity, Sun County (Prax) has very powerful wyters - the four Guardians of the different directions. (There was also once as "Guardian of Above" and a "Guardian of Below", both of which make a reappearance in the post 1621 time-frame). 

Under RQG, I think the Sun County regalia would hold pools of Yelmalio rune points that the listed rune spells could be cast with. 

[Oracle]

5 hours ago, David Scott said:

...

Regalia are magic items, but more so they have a link to the temple and culture we have a couple to look at as examples, Sartar's Regalia (can't find the reference) ...

see

 

[Shiningbrow]

17 hours ago, Crel said:

I don't know if moon rocks generate the effect of the moon (AFAIK the only description of them is in the Bestiary where you quoted), but summoning Lunes was the main purpose in my mind for placing rocks around the temple. Checking those pages, there's no price associated (just "expensive"), but a minimum of ENC 6 is required to summon a 1m Lune.

 

Ah, I missed that.

I'm recalling from RQ2, I think... maybe......

[Austin]

13 hours ago, David Scott said:

Wyters work the same as per page 286. I'd use the points to bump it's POW to its maximum for the size it is, a minor temple Wyter's POW has a max of 6D6+6 so bump to 42 as per page 287 (a bit more if you want species max rules to apply).

Gotcha. I'm familiar with the wyter rules, but I wasn't sure how your points system interacted with that creature description. I'd been thinking each defense point is basically a point of POW invested in the temple. Thanks for the explanation.

[Tywyll]

On a slight tangent...how do you defeat a Wyter like that? I mean, in the current rules, ignoring houseruled heroquest abilities. I can see an extremely powerful shaman maybe challenging one, but 42 POW pretty much makes it immune to magic. 

[Shiningbrow]

20 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

On a slight tangent...how do you defeat a Wyter like that? I mean, in the current rules, ignoring houseruled heroquest abilities. I can see an extremely powerful shaman maybe challenging one, but 42 POW pretty much makes it immune to magic. 

Destroy the object it's in.

[PhilHibbs]

42 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

On a slight tangent...how do you defeat a Wyter like that?

21 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Destroy the object it's in.

Kill the priest who holds the connection to it. Actually that might only work for clan/tribe wyters.

Edited May 17, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Tywyll]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Destroy the object it's in.

Bind all Wyters in giant, solid blocks of stone...check!

[Shiningbrow]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Kill the priest who holds the connection to it. Actually that might only work for clan/tribe wyters.

p287 suggests you're right...

"The community may vary, and wyters have been associated with everything from villages, military regiments, temples, clans, tribes, and cities. Any community with an associated Passion has a wyter." (my emphasis)

"A wyter is bound to a single person, typically the leader of the wyter’s community, e.g., the king of a tribe, the chief of clan, the high priest of a temple, etc... "

But, "The wyter can be transferred to another priest;"... probably only temporary setback.

12 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

Bind all Wyters in giant, solid blocks of stone...check!

That too! "A wyter must reside in a specific sacred thing in the mundane world, such as an idol or dolmen,..."

Also a temprary setback, but for the short term, your PCs shouldn't worry.

[soltakss]

On 5/16/2019 at 4:43 PM, Crel said:

How would you translate those points to wyters? 1pt=1D6 of characteristics/an ability?

In a Seven Mothers Temple, there would be up to 7 Wyters, one for each of the Seven Mothers, although the wyter for She Who Waits could well be replaced by a Red Goddess wyter.

You might have Wyters spontaneously forming as the temple grows, or they might be awakened as the Temple becomes able to support them, or they might always be there, but weak. 

The wyters that develop would depend on the type of Temple, whether it is a martial Temple, in which case Yanafal Tarnils would be first, a Healing Temple (Queen Deezola), a Knowledge Temple (Ittippi Ontor), a temple in an orphanage, (Teelo Norri) and so on.

We played that the wyters lived in the statues of the deities, all of them. So if your temple has a statue of Yatnafal Tarnils in every room, the Yanafal Tarnils wyter could manifest in each one. That is why smashing the temple idols is a good way to reduce the temple's power.

On 5/16/2019 at 4:43 PM, Crel said:

Also, what's the difference between regalia and magic items?

In our RQ, Regalia are Artifacts, meaning that they allow Runespells to be reprayed as if at a Minor temple. All Artifacts are a type of Regalia, but all temple regalia are Artefacts.

Magic Items generally don't allow the repraying of runespells.

[g33k]

5 minutes ago, soltakss said:

... All Artifacts are a type of Regalia, but all temple regalia are Artefacts...

Huh?

[soltakss]

4 minutes ago, g33k said:

Huh?

Exactly.

In my Glorantha, an Artifact allows one or more Runsepslls to be reprayed. This means an Artifact is, in effect, part of Regalia but not necessarily in a temple.

Temple Regalia allow for spells to be reprayed, so are themselves Artifacts. They may well do more and work better together. I play that Temple regalia also provide Runespells to the wearer/user, in the same way that temple Defences do.

So, Temple Regalia and Artifacts are essentially the same thing.

I'll stop digging that hole now.

[Shiningbrow]

19 hours ago, soltakss said:

That is why smashing the temple idols is a good way to reduce the temple's power.

Not to mention, a great way to get killed  

 

Artefact - old, usually magical, item of some significance. Probably important to someone, but not necessarily holy or sacred.

Regalia - item that is used in ritual (whether magical or not - eg, temples or ruling monarchs, etc), and often containing magic. Usually holy or sacred to a group of people.

[David Scott]

On 5/17/2019 at 1:43 PM, Tywyll said:

On a slight tangent...how do you defeat a Wyter like that? I mean, in the current rules, ignoring houseruled heroquest abilities. I can see an extremely powerful shaman maybe challenging one, but 42 POW pretty much makes it immune to magic. 

The straightforward answer is that you aren’t meant to. However don’t forget that wyters can’t regenerate POW so topping it up to maximum just means it has more to spend. Not that it’s fixed. 

[soltakss]

On 5/17/2019 at 1:43 PM, Tywyll said:

On a slight tangent...how do you defeat a Wyter like that? I mean, in the current rules, ignoring houseruled heroquest abilities. I can see an extremely powerful shaman maybe challenging one, but 42 POW pretty much makes it immune to magic. 

You don't, or it is hard. Even if you smash the idols and deconsecrate the temple, the wyter hangs around, waiting to come back if the temple is reconsecrated. At least it does in my Glorantha.

I give wyters some form of Heroic Casting in my games, so they can cast some Runespells using their Magic Points, leaving their Rune Pool for other spells.

Also, in a Major or Great Temple, each Subcult or Hero Cult worshipped has its own little Wyter and they tend to work together. So, a Great Temple to Orlanth would have a number of Associate Deities and thunder Brothers, each with wyters that can cast spells in their own little areas. 

[Tywyll]

22 hours ago, soltakss said:

You don't, or it is hard. Even if you smash the idols and deconsecrate the temple, the wyter hangs around, waiting to come back if the temple is reconsecrated. At least it does in my Glorantha.

I give wyters some form of Heroic Casting in my games, so they can cast some Runespells using their Magic Points, leaving their Rune Pool for other spells.

Also, in a Major or Great Temple, each Subcult or Hero Cult worshipped has its own little Wyter and they tend to work together. So, a Great Temple to Orlanth would have a number of Associate Deities and thunder Brothers, each with wyters that can cast spells in their own little areas. 

So.... how do you destroy them? Surely you can wipe out an enemy temple in some way?