What would a new character know? Any resources outlining what a new character might know?

[Lordabdul]

46 minutes ago, g33k said:

Not sure.  At the time they put it online, it was planned for KoS...

KoS, page 107, although both S:KoH and SC have very similar maps (different framing, portrait orientation, and in colour).

On 6/30/2019 at 6:09 PM, klecser said:

Glorantha is just so big that I just don't even know what I don't know.

This to me is exactly why it feels so intimidating to start any kind of Gloranthan campaign.

It's fine for a few standalone scenarios, but I'm very concerned about, effectively, Gregging myself and my players... like for instance I just learned in this thread about the whole reason Magasta's Pool exists, and why rivers flow to the oceans. It happens so often: I read some little factoid and I go "oh shit really?" and then I have to grab GtG or GS and read up several pages of material -- it's like a Wikipedia rabbithole but with cool and obscure mythology. And sure, in the case of rivers flowing to oceans, the players might start by assuming it's because of gravity and other physics, and later I can either "well actually..." or have them meet an NPC that shares that knowledge with them, and it doesn't matter too much, but I'm effectively afraid of painting myself in a corner with another fact that does matter and would be hard to retcon. I don't know what I don't know. I don't know if there are such important facts that I should make sure I know before I venture forth into my first games. Maybe there aren't and I'm just worried for nothing! Who knows?

[Bill the barbarian]

17 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

KoS, page 107, although both S:KoH and SC have very similar maps (different framing, portrait orientation, and in colour).

This to me is exactly why it feels so intimidating to start any kind of Gloranthan campaign.

It's fine for a few standalone scenarios, but I'm very concerned about, effectively, Gregging myself and my players... like for instance I just learned in this thread about the whole reason Magasta's Pool exists, and why rivers flow to the oceans. It happens so often: I read some little factoid and I go "oh shit really?" and then I have to grab GtG or GS and read up several pages of material -- it's like a Wikipedia rabbithole but with cool and obscure mythology. And sure, in the case of rivers flowing to oceans, the players might start by assuming it's because of gravity and other physics, and later I can either "well actually..." or have them meet an NPC that shares that knowledge with them, and it doesn't matter too much, but I'm effectively afraid of painting myself in a corner with another fact that does matter and would be hard to retcon. I don't know what I don't know. I don't know if there are such important facts that I should make sure I know before I venture forth into my first games. Maybe there aren't and I'm just worried for nothing! Who knows?

I had this fear back 10 years ago when restarting and old game for a few months (came to naught, alas). Back then there were so many possibilities (RQ 1-4, WB&RM, HW, HQ 1 and 2, KoDP and all the Stafford books as well as 20 odd years of computer forums.) that a given myth or story might have 4 or five sometimes very disparate ways of being told. RQ was not a Chaosium thing and a series pf MRQ games came out, Moon Designs was putting out classic old stories. 

Oh what was a poor GM to do? I decided to not fret and to take advantage of the situation. My game does not have to match canon, my game could become canon (granted, my own canon, but...). As there was no one putting out RQ for the third age who was to say I was wrong. I could decide which truth was real and the confusion could only benefit the game as the players would not longer be omniscient.Even with info flowing again, I think I will try this still: many stories equaling one or two truths. I have yet to try this out in a full campaign, but ask me in 5 years how it went.

Cheers

[g33k]

Here is a very very USEFUL bit of getting into Glorantha:  all of the conflicting bits can be true, including the canon unique to your own table.

Stress to the players that every culture has its own takes on the same stories, tell different and conflicting variants, and what their characters "know" to be true may work reliably in one place, but not be true -- may not even work, "proving" it untrue! -- in another.

 

Trying to find the "Absolute Truth" of a thing in Glorantha is complex, contradictory, and (as the God Learners found out) ultimately a doomed pursuit.

Besides, even if you DID find it... some bloody Heroquestors would come along and CHANGE THE TRUTH you just discovered!

 

So launch your campaign with your preferred version of Glorantha.  And if you find it has been Gregged... embrace it.  Have the PC's get drunk at the campfire of a newly-befriended Tribe, and hear the crazy story about how the rivers are all rushing to the ocean because this crazy-ass Primal Water god is still fighting the Chaos War down in the deeps, that there's this ginormous hole they're all trying to fill.  And tomorrow morning, as the hangover fades, their new friends will take them across yonder pass to where they can see for themselves that the water will run uphill if it has to, so long as it gets to the sea!

Or (it being Your Glorantha) say, "That's stupid.  No."  And Lo! so it was Not.

Edited July 2, 2019 by g33k

[Runeblogger]

1 hour ago, lordabdul said:

This to me is exactly why it feels so intimidating to start any kind of Gloranthan campaign.

It's fine for a few standalone scenarios, but I'm very concerned about, effectively, Gregging myself and my players... like for instance I just learned in this thread about the whole reason Magasta's Pool exists, and why rivers flow to the oceans.

I ran Gloranthan games for ages without knowing that. I didn't even stop to think about it, and neither did any of my players. It may only become a problem if a player ever asks you: So why do rivers flow to the ocean? And it is very unlikely they will ever ask you that. But if they do, then you can reply: Well, you should ask your priest or priestess or some Lhankhor Mhy initiate. If they find one, either make something up,  or look for the info between sessions. If what that priest said wasn't canon, it can be in your campaign, or it can be that that priest just made it up! 

What I mean is, relax. It's no big deal.

[Bill the barbarian]

2 minutes ago, Runeblogger said:

What I mean is, relax. It's no big deal.

Correct

[Ian Absentia]

Think about the big questions of real world science and Why Things Are the Way They Are.  Then consider how often you really concern yourself with them on a daily basis.

Thus is it with Gloranthan mythology and cosmology.

You're just a bunch of people doing what you do to get by on a daily basis.  Which happens to involve magic.  And giant, red bats that decimate entire populations, though that hardly happens every day.  But neither do hurricanes and earthquakes, and when was the last time you seriously wondered how and why those things happen?

For most people, Earth or Glorantha, they just do.

Start small, ignore the Big Stuff, then specialise as you gain proficiency.

!i!

Edited July 2, 2019 by Ian Absentia

[Bill the barbarian]

17 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Think about the big questions of real world science and Why Things Are the Way They Are.  Then consider how often you really concern yourself with them on a daily basis.

 

Yes.

 

18 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Start small, ignore the Big Stuff, then specialise.

 

Just the weirdness of your area first, agreed,  but Ian,  surely one would want to at least say flat world multiple gods who make up the world elements and are very tangible but removed, the red moon, and maybe the dragon rise. :)

 

[Ian Absentia]

1 minute ago, Bill the barbarian said:

...but Ian,  surely one would want to at least say flat world multiple gods who make up the world elements and are very tangible but removed, the red moon, and maybe the dragon rise.

Enh.  Molecular chemistry, quantum physics, genetic mutation, chaos theory, and global climate change.  Sometimes it's not of practical use to wrap your head around the Big Stuff when you're trying to get home from the grocery in time to make dinner.

!i!

[Bill the barbarian]

6 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Enh.  Molecular chemistry, quantum physics, genetic mutation, chaos theory, and global climate change.  Sometimes it's not of practical use to wrap your head around the Big Stuff when you're trying to get home from the grocery in time to make dinner.

 

I would think that all that you mention wold be known about by the average citizen who would be able to say a bit about each of them (possible incorrectly, but still) so... would you bring then up to  the average bronze age citizen plaiying his fave RPG Advanced A&A (attorneys and accountants), perhaps not. Would the bronze age role-player need to know need to know, I suppose not. It depends on who is playing. eh,  Should Joerg be playing in your game this eve, I would recommend having both PDFs of the GtG open and ready of searching.

Cheers

[Nevun]

3 hours ago, lordabdul said:

KoS, page 107, although both S:KoH and SC have very similar maps (different framing, portrait orientation, and in colour).

This to me is exactly why it feels so intimidating to start any kind of Gloranthan campaign.

It's fine for a few standalone scenarios, but I'm very concerned about, effectively, Gregging myself and my players... like for instance I just learned in this thread about the whole reason Magasta's Pool exists, and why rivers flow to the oceans. 

That's precisely the reason I started the reddit thread. There's things we (as round world dwellers) assume that just aren't correct for Glorantha. We make assumptions that our characters probably wouldn't.

 

For instance, if I described water flowing up and over a hill to continue downstream, my players would assume something out of the ordinary was happening and spend ages investigating. Their characters would probably have shrugged and said "I has always been this way". I'd like to know more of these instances myself.

[Ian Absentia]

Again, enh.  I'm aware of molecular chem, quantum physics, genetics, chaos theory, and global climate change, I understand some of them better than others, and I believe that they affect and drive daily life.  But they seldom come up in general conversation.  From where I stand, the sun rises and sets on a flat world made of plants, animals, dirt, and air.  Presumably everyone else around me operates on the same functional assumptions, because that's all we basically need to know.  Until the big, red bat turns up, of course.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but a starting character in Glorantha, while he or she may be assumed to have more in-depth knowledge of the world, doesn't need it on a crib sheet to start the game.  The sun rises, the sun sets, you take a deep breath of air, you apologise to the elf for cutting his sister's arms off.  Now would be a good time to explain to your fellow players some common lore regarding Aldryami. (Though, to be fair, when was the last time anyone in your village saw an elf or dryad?!)  The points at which the tropes of Glorantha diverge from the real world or common fantasy can be encountered as part of play.  Start small, then expand outward.

!i!

Edited July 2, 2019 by Ian Absentia

[jajagappa]

7 hours ago, lordabdul said:

It's fine for a few standalone scenarios, but I'm very concerned about, effectively, Gregging myself and my players...

That was one reason why my original campaign started in the somewhat obscure corner of the Lunar Empire known as Imther - had just enough texts to build my own interpretation of setting around, but I could use the whole Griffin Mountain book for some larger campaign as desired.

That was also the conception for the old Blank Lands. Both Garsting and Jarst were among those, and with the little bits and pieces in GtG you could readily build a campaign there without likely ever seeing much else published (though could certainly draw on the interesting myths from the Six Ages computer game).

There are other areas (Talastar, Brolia, or Charg if you like Orlanthi) that could be used if you're concerned about this.

8 hours ago, lordabdul said:

I don't know what I don't know. I don't know if there are such important facts that I should make sure I know before I venture forth into my first games. Maybe there aren't and I'm just worried for nothing! Who knows?

The Gods of Glorantha work will help a lot when available. But if you can get your hands on the Glorantha Sourcebook and Cults of Prax/Cults of Terror, those will give you a lot of background.

But I really wouldn't worry so much about it.  I created a whole variant of Yelmalio for Imther, created what I felt were the necessary pieces of information about life and myths there, and ran a very enjoyable campaign in that area for 10 years. Some bits got Gregged during or since. Some bits became canon. Some bits are floating around somewhere in-between. So? 

I'd just say pick an area that interests you, add what you need, and run a game and see where it goes.  Ask in the forums if you want help or advice (and what type of help or advice you're looking for so you don't get dissertations in response), but it'll be your game and YGWV.

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Nevun said:

For instance, if I described water flowing up and over a hill to continue downstream, my players would assume something out of the ordinary was happening and spend ages investigating. Their characters would probably have shrugged and said "I has always been this way". I'd like to know more of these instances myself

There are potentially any number of these, so hard to provide some guidance on what instances may be most relevant.  Dragon Pass and the Wastes have more than their fair share of these oddities. Here are a few:

The Syphon River: yes, there is a river that flows uphill still. It's in Heortling. It refused Magasta's call to fill the hole to the Void.

Skyfall Lake: yes, there is a hole in the sky down which the waters of the River of Heaven forever fall. Monsters sometimes fall down too. Trolls live there and watch for these unique items.

Kero Fin Mountain: it's 8 miles high, impossibly tall (and narrow). Mythically it reaches to the sky, but most known as the birthplace of the Storm King Orlanth. Unless blocked by something else, you can see it throughout Dragon Pass and even adjacent lands.

The Block: there's a huge block of indestructible rock composed of adamant (solidified Law) in Prax. It was once part of the mythic Spike before that exploded. It fell to Earth to aid the Storm Bull and crushed the Devil. The Devil's parts continue to ooze out from underneath though.

The Dead Place: the Earth aided Storm Bull when he fell here, nearly dead from his fight with the Devil. The Earth gave all its power to the Storm Bull. The land here is dead - not only can magic not be cast, but it sucks up any one's magic who enters it.

Storm Walk Mountain: Storm Bull twisted an earth god into a spiral mountain. If you climb up, you can capture a Sky Bull (maybe).

Planets: some planets follow the Sun's Path on various cycles. But there are planets that follow another path, the South Path that runs from northeast to south/southwest. The former's most prominent planet is Lightfore, the little sun (aka Yelmalio). The latter's most prominent planet is Shargash, god of war - the red planet.

Pole Star: it's more or less in the center of the sky though the Sky Dome rocks slowly back and forth, north-south.  All the stars dance (aka rotate) around it.

 

[Shiningbrow]

Perhaps, to aid the OP (and maybe ourselves), we should ask some really basic questions about nature, and see what we get? (Perhaps we need a document "what my parents taught me"?)

E.g. -  why are there seasons?

What is darkness? (Merely the absence of light, or something else with its own existence - that can be stronger than light?)

Where do.babies come from?

[Lordabdul]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

That was one reason why my original campaign started in the somewhat obscure corner of the Lunar Empire known as Imther

Heh, that's one good way to go about it

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Gods of Glorantha work will help a lot when available. But if you can get your hands on the Glorantha Sourcebook and Cults of Prax/Cults of Terror, those will give you a lot of background. 

I actually have the Glorantha Sourcebook and the Guide to Glorantha, although I still haven't gone through the majority of their contents. For now, due to lack of time, I treat them less as books to read cover to cover, and more as reference books where, if I run into something mentioning, say, the Gbaji Wars, I go "WTF is a Gbaji?" and look it up in either book.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Dragon Pass and the Wastes have more than their fair share of these oddities. Here are a few:

Nice! Thanks for that.

6 hours ago, Nevun said:

For instance, if I described water flowing up and over a hill to continue downstream, my players would assume something out of the ordinary was happening and spend ages investigating. Their characters would probably have shrugged and said "I has always been this way". I'd like to know more of these instances myself.

To be honest, the example of the water flowing uphill is actually not very good -- it would not ever come to my mind to mention that to my players unless I actually knew about it... so if I ever brought it up, it means I already have an explanation for it somehow.

My concern is more for stuff that's in plain sight like, say, Kero Fin or the Red Moon. I don't want to play 3 scenarios before learning about it and mentioning it at the table: "oh right, by the way, there's this big red sphere hanging in the sky in the north west, it's creepy as hell" and the players go "wait a second, we could have used that as a landmark 2 sessions ago when we were lost??!!". Of course I could hand-wave it back as "oh but back then, it was the phase that meant it was facing away from you", assuming I also learned about the phases and all that, but I hope people see my point.

Actually, it might be similar, as far as I understand (I'm not 100% sure about how the story goes), as that time when Greg came out and said that oh yeah of course Orlanthi people have olive skin and red hair and everybody went "oh shit, what, really?". It's one thing for it to happen because it's a new revelation from one of the authors, but another for it to happen because I didn't read that one page from one of the sourcebooks.

8 hours ago, Runeblogger said:

What I mean is, relax. It's no big deal.

I know I know, I'm probably putting on too much pressure on myself to prepare this thing -- I mean, I GM'ed stuff like Masks of Nyarlathotep and didn't feel nearly as much pressure to "do it right". I mean, worst case, my Glorantha varies, right? But that still bothers me

8 hours ago, g33k said:

Here is a very very USEFUL bit of getting into Glorantha:  all of the conflicting bits can be true, including the canon unique to your own table.

That's fair for the cultural side of things, which is also daunting, but I won't sweat it too much because, sure, the PCs won't know much about other people's cultures and I'm OK telling them "I know what I said last month but hey, turns out I was wr.... errr.... turns out your characters had the wrong idea about ducks! That was to be expected, though, you only ever saw 2 in your entire life" (<grumbling> "...and I only read their background info last night..."). But it's not true for things like the Red Moon or the darkness of Sartarite skin: it's either there or it ain't.

Edited July 3, 2019 by lordabdul

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

E.g. -  why are there seasons?

This reminds me of a few things I learned recently that fall in this category. Of course, the following statements might be (partially) mistaken or incomplete, in which case please correct me (although the whole point is to keep it brief so in the case of incompleteness, corrections should not add too much... I'm looking at you, Joerg )

• The god Umath, son of Gata and Aether, wanted some realm of his own but the world was pretty crowded with gods already so he made some space in between his parents. That's how the surface (earth) and the sky got separated.
• Xentha (also called Netta by Pelorians) is the goddess that rules over the night sky -- she effectively is the night, so I assume her name is commonly used in conversations. She shares custody of the surface with Yelm, as they switch places.
• When Yelm was killed by Orlanth and sent to the Underworld, the light messed up the darkness races down there, like the Uz (the trolls). Kyger Litor led the Uz up to the surface and Xentha helped them out, making sure there was darkness up there while Yelm was dead. Trolls are effectively refugees.
• Speaking of Orlanth and Yelm, I assume the simple subject of the day/night cycle would be a very common subject of fun roleplay banter between Orlanthi and Yelm characters:
  • Orlanthi people believe Orlanth slew Yelm to woe Ernalda, but then after seeing how it messed everything up, figured he needed to fix it and gathered his buddies to go on the Lightbringers' Quest to get Yelm back from the Underworld. After that, the Great Compromise created Time and because Yelm wasn't quite back to being 100% alive, he kept alternating between "alive", "wounded", and "dead", and that's why we have the day/night cycle.
  • Sun-god worshipers on the other hand believe that the Rebel Gods, led by that fucker Orlanth, tried to kill Yelm and sure they did wound him but Yelm effectively did a, ahem, strategic retreat by going to the Underworld all by himself. There, he brought light, freedom, and the solar way to whoever was down there, and bid his time, regaining his forces. Then, by sheer willpower, he managed to summon and kill the Rebel Gods. They totally didn't go to the Underworld on their own quest to save him, he is the one who got them exactly where he wanted. He got them to apologize, and sent them back with a slap on the wrist. After a while he came back topside and, since then, claims both the surface and the Underworld as his realm, spending half the time upstairs and half the time downstairs, hence the day/night cycle.
  • I'm not quite sure which cults still believes that second version though? Definitely anybody from old-school Dara-Happan descent, along with Pure Horse People? But I don't know about Yelmalio initiates? I assume Elmal initiates believe the Lightbringers Quest version?

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by lordabdul

[RHW]

Here's my intro for my Sartarite campaign, which had some players new to Glorantha. (NOTE: Starting date about 1620)

 

An Introduction to Sartar

 

Q:  What is Sartar?

A:  Sartar is a mountainous kingdom situated on the eastern edge of Dragon Pass, a strategically important crossroads in the world of Glorantha.  Sartar is the homeland of the players in my upcoming UsQuest campaign (currently in playtesting).  Sartar is peopled by hill tribes which have a Norse/Celtic feel and who worship a storm god named Orlanth.  Sartar’s capital is Boldhome.  Most of the PCs will come from the Treefell clan of the Balmyr tribe. The kingdom was founded about 100 years ago and since its birth has been involved in a conflict with a powerful northern empire called The Empire of the Red Moon (aka the Lunar Empire aka the Redcloaks aka the fucking Lunars). 

Here’s a good map of Sartar:

http://www.glorantha.com/new/fan/MapDragonPass.jpg

There’s also a political map of Sartar here:

http://www.stempest.demon.co.uk/glorantha/dptribes.html

It’s a bit inaccurate, especially in the area you’re from.  Some stupid Lunar must’ve made it. 

 

Q:  How did we do in this war?

A:  You lost.  The Lunars kicked your ass in 1602, sacked Boldhome, and installed a puppet king (and eventually a Lunar governor-general).  Sartar has risen up in three major rebellions since them.  1611, 1613 (Starbrow’s Rebellion, the big one), and 1618.  The Sartarites lost every time.  It’s now 1620.  The PCs are all in their early 20s, so, assuming they fought in the previous uprisings, they were raw recruits in 1611 and 1613, hardened vets in 1618.  They’ve never really known freedom or victory. Most of your fathers died in 1602.  Many of your relatives and friends have died in one or more of these uprisings. 

For the Lunar point of view on the current state of affairs, go here:

http://www.etyries.com/journeys/liberate.htm

Again, not quite accurate, in that it lists the Balmyr (your tribe) as “liberated.”  Suckers.

 

Q:  How bad do we hate the Lunars?

A:  A lot.  Not only do they march around in their hobnailed sandals and red cloaks wherever they’d like, they tax people (boo), crucify people they don’t like (double boo) and they worship an evil chaos tainted moon goddess (triple boo).  Oh, and they want to kill your god, Orlanth.  And they don’t speak the language.  And they smell like vinegar.  And they like having sex with little boys (instead of women or transvestites like real men).  You can actually take a Communication skill called Hatred of Lunars if you’d like to really, really hate them.  It’s kind of like having a ranger’s favored enemy feat.

 

Q: What can we do about this outrageous occupation?

A: Damn good question.  Rumor has it Kallyr Starbrow, Queen of the neighboring Kheldon tribe and hot poster girl of rebellion, is still alive and is leading a new effort to overthrow the Lunars.  Some of your clanmates claim to have actually met her.  Maybe you should talk to them.

 

Q:  I want to kick ass and take names.  How do I do that?

A:  You might want to start by becoming an initiate of a war god.  Sartar has lots and lots and lots of them.  Their names follow.  A * by the name means your clan has at least a shrine to this god.  A ** means your clan maintains a full temple.

-        Orlanth. ** King of the Storm Gods.  Slayer of the Sun.  Resurrector of the Sun, Lightbringer, Father of Time.  Worship of Orlanth is illegal.  75% of Sartarite men worship Orlanth.  Very powerful Orlanth worshippers can fly, shoot lighting bolts, teleport, summon and control air elementals, and generally kick ass and take names.  Runic Associations:  Storm, Movement, Mastery

-        Humakt. * God of Death and Truth.  And Death.  And Swords.  And War.  And Death.  Humakt is Orlanth’s older brother.  He’s a grim kinda guy.  Humakt initiates cannot be resurrected if killed.  Very powerful Humakti can kill people just by looking at them.  They take gifts and geas to make them more like their god.  They can also go Berserk in combat, do huge amounts of damage, and die gloriously.  Think Celtic samurai.  Or Tyr. The guy Tuesday is named after.  Freakishly, Humakt has a large following among Sartar’s sentient, bipedal, flightless Ducks.  Runic Associations:  Death, Truth, Death.  (Did we mention Death?)

-        Urox the Storm Bull. * God of Chaos Fighters, slayer of the Devil.  The Lunars are Chaotic, sort of.  Storm Bull and his followers are generally slovenly, ill-tempered berserkers without the mollifying discipline of Humaktis.  They can sense the presence of Chaos.  They wear horned helmets. Strangely the Lunars have not made worship of Storm Bull illegal yet.  Probably a bureaucratic oversight.  Most Storm Bull worshippers are like your drunken idiot redneck cousin.  Annoying, but good to have around in a fight.   Storm Bull is also a popular god among the Praxian nomads to the east.  Runic Associations:  Storm, Beast, Death.

-        Yelmalio. A cult of light worshipping spear using mercenaries.  Yelmalio may be the son of the Sun God, Yelm.  Some clans used to worship Yelmalio as Elmal, Orlanth’s loyal campguard.  In the past 100 years, this cult has gone through many schisms.  Now most Yelmalians are carefully neutral in the war between Orlanth and the Lunars (and the Lunars’ allies, the Sun-worshipping Dara Happans), though some (especially in the north) have taken the Lunar side.  Yelmalio is friendly to elves and excels in kicking troll ass.  They have two large communities of their own, called Sun Dome Temples.  One is to the south, the other is to the east near the city of Pavis.  Runic Associations:  Light.  Truth.

-        Vinga. * The red haired goddess of war.  Spearwoman.  Defender of the innocent. Pissed-off, childless Sartarite widows will sometimes give up worshipping their nice mommy goddesses, dye their hair red, and follow Vinga to kick ass and take names just like their dead husbands used to.  These days, lots of young Sartarite women are skipping the widow stage and just going right to Vinga, following in the footsteps of their heroine and role model, Kallyr Starbrow.  High level Vingans can throw spears for miles, run across the treetops, and dodge arrows. Runic Associations:  Movement, Death, Storm

-        Other Asskickers:  Zorak Zoran, the Troll War God (like Storm Bull but with even worse manners, Humakti and Yelmalians both hate him).  Kyger Litor, the Troll Goddess (Mommy Goddess of Tough Love).  Pretty much any troll god.  Aldraya, the Goddess of Elves (your tribe has issues with elves, see below).  Rigsdal, * the Night Watchman (kind of like Heimdal).  Mastakos, the Charioteer. Valind, God of Winter.  Babeestor Gor, the Earth Avenger, ax-wielding female war goddess from Tarsh (worshippers are exclusively female and mostly psychotic), Lodril, the volcano god (popular to the south in Esrolia).

 

Q: I’m a lover, not a fighter.  How can I help?

A: You can also become an initiate of one of Sartar’s important, non-war gods.  Sartar has a few of those, too.  They are:

-        Chalana Arroy. ** The healing goddess.  Chalanans takes a vow of pacifism.  They may never use a weapon, not even in self-defense (except against undead).  Chalana Arroy is the source of all healing magic in the world.  CA is a Lightbringer, one of Orlanth’s closest allies.  Most civilized people will not hurt a Chalanan under any circumstances.  Chalanans wear distinctive clothing to make themselves easily identifiable.  Chalana Arroy is the only reliable source of Resurrection in the world.  Runic Associations:  Life, Harmony

-        Eurmal. ** The trickster god.  The god of masks.  Social outcast.  Lightbringer.  Tricksters are outside the law.  They can do anything they want and there is no legal punishment.  However, they do not get the protection of law.  You can kill a Trickster for fun and no one will care.  Tricksters can do all kinds of humorous and annoying things.  They can lie with impunity, they can turn cows purple, they can eat rocks.  In order to survive, most Tricksters use the Suck Up to the Boss technique.  They ally themselves with a powerful local figure (usually the clan chief) and act as his or her jester, spy, and sneak thief in return for a measure of social protection.  A Trickster without a protector is a short-lived Trickster.  Runic Associations:  Illusion, Disorder.  FuCk u Azhol!  eUrMAL iZ D KING uV d Godz!!!111!1 TriksT3rz r00l! Evry1 3ls3 dr00lz!11111!!!1!x50

-        Issaries. * The God of Trade.  Another Lightbringer.  Issaries is the god of merchants and created the skill Bargain and the language Tradetalk.  High level Issaries types can create sacred Marketplaces and buy and sell pretty much anything.  Runic Associations:  Harmony and Trade

-        Lhankor Mhy. *  The God of Knowledge and Laws.  Yet another Lightbringer.  Mhorhys the Explainer, an NPC member of the party, follows this god.  He knows a lot of stuff and is always willing to explain it to the less brilliant.  High level Lhankor Mhys can read minds, force people to tell the truth, see recreations of past events in their minds, and analyze magic items.  All Lhankor Mhys wear beards (female and non-human worshippers wear fake ones).  Runic Associations:  Truth and Law.

-        Donandar.  * God of the Skalds.  Donadar worshippers can inspire entire clans to great feats (using some as yet to be determined Rune Spells).  They can also make people dance.  Dance, monkey!  Dance!  Runic Associations:  Harmony and Illusion.

-        Foundchild.  * The Hunter God.  God of the bow and the javelin and the sling.  Foundchild worshippers usually hit what they’re aiming at.  Good trackers.   Runic Associations:  Beast, Death, Mastery.

-        Yinkin.  The God of Cats.  Another hunting god.  More sneak, less sniper.  Accomplished Yinkini can move without a sound, grow magical claws, and disappear into shadows.  Runic Associations:  Beast, Illusion, Movement

-        Kolat. * The God of Wind Spirits and Ancestors.  Kolat’s priests are actually shamans who excel in controlling the winds and windspirits.  Kolat shamans also help your characters communicate with their dead ancestors and appease them with worship.  Runic Associations:  Storm, Spirit.

-        Other not so ass-kicking gods:  Argan Argar, the Troll God of Trade (but he’s a Troll, so he can kick a little ass).  Ernalda, ** the wife goddess (“Husband, go kick ass for me.”).  Barntar, * the plowman (with the outlawing of Orlanth, most men pretend to be Barntar worshippers).  Gustbran, the smith god. Esrola, * the grain goddess.  Voria, the goddess of spring.  Engezi the Sky Titan, ** the God of the Creekstream River.

 

Q: Are there evil gods, too?

A:  Lots of them.  Here’s a short list:

-        The Red Moon Goddess.  Rufelza the Shepelkirt.  Goddess of the Lunar Empire.  She was once a peasant girl who was made into a Goddess by the Seven Mothers.  You can see her in the sky.  She’s the red orb up north.  Her magic is cyclical, waxing and waning with the weekly phases of the moon.  She is tainted by chaos and is evil, despite the empty reassurances of her deluded followers.  Runic Associations:  Moon, Chaos, Harmony

-        The Seven Mothers.  The heroes turned gods who created the Red Moon.  A twisted parody of our holy Lightbringers.  Among them are:  Yanafal Tarnils, god of war (like Humakt but with scimitars), Etyries, goddess of trade (traitorous daughter of Issaries).  Danfive Xaron, the reformed criminal.  Jakaleel the Witch, goddess of magic, madness and secrets who may or may not be a troll, and Irripi Ontor, a disgraced priest of Lhankor Mhy who tells lies instead of truths.  They are worshipped both together and separately.  Runic Associations:  Life, Death, Moon

-        Yelm.  The Imperial Sun God.  Mostly worshipped by Dara Happans, who are part of the Lunar Empire.  Orlanth killed this stuck-up tinpot dictator during God Time, ushering in the Storm Age.  Then, when Orlanth realized without the sun, things were pretty fucked, he undertook the great Lightbringer Quest, went to hell and brought Yelm back to life as part of the Great Compromise which started Time.  Despite this, Yelm has never gotten over the whole killing incident.  Yelmalio may be his son.  Your Yelmalio may vary.  Runic Associations:  Sun, Law, Stasis

-        Zorak Zoran.  The Troll war god.  Humaktis and Yelmalians particularly hate him.  He’s a raider and an ambusher and a thug, so the only people who get along with him are Storm Bulls.  Runic Associations:  Death and Darkness.

-        The Chaos Gods:  Gods so incredibly fucked up, they want to end the world.  These are bad, bad, bad people.  Only monsters and raving psychopathic lunatics worship them.  They include:  Thed, the broo goddess of rape and disease.  Malia, the broo goddess of disease minus the rape.  Bagog, the scorpion goddess.  Krarsht, the goddess of greed and hunger, Vivamort, the god of the undead, Wakaboth, the devil (but he’s dead so no one worships him.  Go Storm Bull!).  Cacodeamon, the god of ogres.   Gbaji (aka Nysalor), the god of corruption.  Thanatar, the headhunter.  And The Crimson Bat, the demonic steed of the Red Goddess and the Lunar Empire’s pet WMD.  Of course, the Red Moon is a chaos goddess, too.  She even admits it.  But she pretends not to be destructive and evil.  Don’t trust her!

 

Q: Are there nonhumans?

A:  Yeah, lots of them, too.  They include:

-        Trolls.  Aka the “Uz.”  Darkness loving, cave-dwelling, large, tough humanoids who can see in the dark and like maces.  Selfish, greedy, hungry, brutal thugs who love children (both to hug and to eat) and music.  There are several kinds of trolls, including the stunted and pathetic Trollkin, the average joe troll Dark Trolls, the walking siege machine Great Trolls, and the unbelievable powerful and extremely rare Mistress Race Trolls.  There are also Cave Trolls, who have been corrupted by Chaos and can regenerate.

-        Elves.  Aka Aldryami.  Sentient bipedal plants who protect the forest.  If you cut them, they don’t bleed.  But they do leak sap.  Your clan doesn’t get along well with elves

-        Ducks.  Formally the Durulz.  Bipedal, sentient waterfowl with hands instead of wings.  Ducks helped Orlanth kill Yelm, so the Dara Happans don’t like them much.  A duck’s head is worth one year of Lunar taxes.  If you pay your taxes.  Which you don’t if you can help it.  Your tribe gets along well with the Ducks.

-        Broos.  The worst.  Chaos infested goatmen.  They are foul, evil, bad.  They reproduce by raping livestock (or people if they can manage it).  There’s really nothing good to say about broos.  Some of them serve in the Lunar army.

-        Scorpionmen.  Like broos.  Kill on sight.  Chaotic scorpion centaurs.  Trolls say that, unlike broos, you can actually eat scorpion men.  So they have that going for them.

-        Beastmen.  A collective term for centaurs, satyrs, baboons, newtlings, and other exotic creatures from the nearby Beast Valley.  Technically, Ducks are also beastmen.

-        Dragonnewts.  Weird freaking draconic humanoids who worship dragons and act in ways so alien as to be inexplicable.  Your tribe secretly gets along very well with the Dragonnewts.

-        Dwarves.  The Mostali.  Short, tough, subterranean creatures created by Mostal.  They are immortal and almost as hard to figure out as the Dragonnewts.  They have a lot of iron.  Trolls say they’re good eating once you get past the hard shell. 

 

Q: Who are our neighbors?

A:  Well, aside from the evil Lunars (boo, hiss), you’ve got:

-        Colymar. Technically part of Sartar, the Colymar (the tribe to the immediate west of your Balmyr tribe) have recently declared their independence.  Their king, Blackmor the Rabid, has converted to the Lunar way.  Your tribe and the Colymar never got along.  This goes double now.  Man, you hate those guys.  On the upside, the local temple/brothel to Uleria, the goddess of love and prostitutes is in Apple Lane, a Colymar town.

-        Tarsh.  A kingdom to the immediate north.  Former allies of Sartar conquered by the Lunars.  Tarsh has fully converted to the Lunar way (except for a small colony of Free Tarshites called the Earthshakers to the west).  The northern parts of Sartar around Alone and Alda-Chur have been annexed into Tarsh.

-        Heortland.  A collection of Orlanthi clans and kingdoms to the south.  Theoretically part of the Holy Country, which is in political turmoil.  Recently, the Lunars have begun to “liberate” Heortland.

-        The Holy Country.  A collection of diverse nations along the seacoast to the southwest.  The main part is Esrolia. Originally ruled by a troll demigod from the Troll Plateau called the Only Old One. The OOO was defeated by a hero called the Pharaoh, who ruled the Holy Country for decades from the City of Wonders.  Recently the Pharaoh was assassinated and the Holy Country is in chaos.

Here’s a good map of the Holy Country:

http://www.glorantha.com/new/fan/hocmap.jpg

-        Prax.  Windswept harsh wastelands to the east inhabited by Praxians, exotic nomadic humans who ride a variety of strange animals, including Bison, High Llamas, Rhinos, Zebras and Sable Antelopes.  Most are violently anti-Lunar, though the Sableriders are pro-Lunar and the Zebrariders are neutral.  Other tribes include the pygmy-sized Bolo Lizard Riders and the human-herding tapir-like Morocanths.

-        The Upland Marsh.  A swamp to the west (downstream) infested by undead.  Home of the necromancer Delecti.

-        The Dragon’s Eye. A dangerous land between Tarsh and Delecti’s Swamp ruled by capricious and deadly Dragonnewts.  There’s also a Dragonnewt “City” not far from your home town.  Your tribe has access to secret Dragonnewt secret stuff.

-        Other places.  Mhorhys the Explainer knows about lots of other places too.  The Grazelands, Dagori Inkarth, Pavis, the Stinking Forest, the Troll Woods.  He even knows a little about the horrible chaos nests Snakepipe Hollow and the Footprint.  He can go on and on and on.  Buy him a beer and ask him if you want to know more.

 

Q: Anything else I should know?

A:  Hmm, most of the characters are from the Balmyr tribe of Sartar, part of a confederation of tribes centered around the town of Wilm’s Church.  (aka Wilmskirk) Your clan is the Treefell clan; your clan center is Prattsted.  The Treefell clan is known for its woodworking skills, its fine wooden stockades, its isolation and independence, its poor relations with elves, and its unfortunate preponderance of Eurmal worshippers.  Prattsted is the site of an annual Trickster festival that attracts Eurmali from all over the world.  The locals tolerate it because it brings in a ton of money.  (Prattsted is located about where the B is in Balmyr on the Sartar Map.)

            The Treefell clan and Prattsted have a few secrets:  They are:

-        The Balmyr Tribe is not as pacified as the Lunars like to think.  Suckers.  Orlanth worship is still very active, though everyone swears they worship Barntar, the plow god (in a region with very little farming).

-        The Treefell Clan routinely underreports its population and underpays its taxes.  Most of your clan lives in the upcountry far away from the Sted.  There are four times as many Treefell clansmen as the Lunars think.

-        There’s a hidden shrine to Eurmal behind the local waterfall (Pratt’s Falls) which is one of the most important Trickster shrines in the world.

-        The Treefell clan can trace its lineage back to the Empire of the Wyrm Friends and keeps secret knowledge about Dragons and Dragonnewts.  Especially favored locals have access to this knowledge (but you don’t). 

-        Some of your ancestors survived the Dragonkill War (the Dragons did the killing btw).  The Treefells have been in Dragon Pass longer than any other human clan.

-        If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, it still makes noise. So there.

Prattsted’s isolation has kept it relatively untouched by the Lunars, though, recently, thieves, probably backed by the Lunars, stole a clan treasure, Rosebud, a Chalana Arroy spirit who lives in a permanently blooming wreath of roses.  The local chief, Varan Harmastsson, has sent out a party of local toughs (the PCs) to retrieve Rosebud.  A previous attempt, led by Varan’s own son, Keener Varansson, disappeared without a trace.  Varan has also asked the PCs to retrieve Keener or his body if they find it, though Rosebud is a higher priority. 

[Joerg]

3 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

This reminds me of a few things I learned recently that fall in this category. Of course, the following statements might be (partially) mistaken or incomplete, in which case please correct me (although the whole point is to keep it brief so in the case of incompleteness, corrections should not add too much... I'm looking at you, Joerg )

I wonder whether I should report this for harrassment... 🙄😛

And, since you invoked the forbidden name...

3 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

• The god Umath, son of Gata and Aether, wanted some realm of his own but the world was pretty crowded with gods already so he made some space in between his parents. That's how the surface (earth) and the sky got separated.

and the World Machine dislocated. Umath later was dismembered when he went to confront the court of Yelm, being thrown into the north pillar caused the Sky Dome to begin its rocking movement that creates the seasons.

3 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

• Xentha (also called Netta by Pelorians) is the goddess that rules over the night sky -- she effectively is the night, so I assume her name is commonly used in conversations. She shares custody of the surface with Yelm, as they switch places.

Most gods have alternative names. Mention that fact rather than give out even more things to remember.

3 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

• When Yelm was killed by Orlanth and sent to the Underworld, the light messed up the darkness races down there, like the Uz (the trolls). Kyger Litor led the Uz up to the surface and Xentha helped them out, making sure there was darkness up there while Yelm was dead. Trolls are effectively refugees.

There were quite a few invasions of the sky - first the seas turning the day-sky blue, then Night turning it dark.

Sky River Titan is fairly important and is instrumental in the "Rivers reverse their course" story.

3 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

• Speaking of Orlanth and Yelm, I assume the simple subject of the day/night cycle would be a very common subject of fun roleplay banter between Orlanthi and Yelm characters:
  • Orlanthi people believe Orlanth slew Yelm to woe Ernalda, but then after seeing how it messed everything up, figured he needed to fix it and gathered his buddies to go on the Lightbringers' Quest to get Yelm back from the Underworld.

The Lightbringers' Quest and how it came about is essential for understanding Glorantha, as is the (short version) of the birth of the Devil. The text from Cults of Terror reprinted in the Guide is about the most condensed version of that and should be labeled "required reading" at least for the GM.

3 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

• • After that, the Great Compromise created Time and because Yelm wasn't quite back to being 100% alive, he kept alternating between "alive", "wounded", and "dead", and that's why we have the day/night cycle.
  • Sun-god worshipers on the other hand believe that the Rebel Gods, led by that fucker Orlanth, tried to kill Yelm and sure they did wound him but Yelm effectively did a, ahem, strategic retreat by going to the Underworld all by himself. There, he brought light, freedom, and the solar way to whoever was down there, and bid his time, regaining his forces. Then, by sheer willpower, he managed to summon and kill the Rebel Gods. They totally didn't go to the Underworld on their own quest to save him, he is the one who got them exactly where he wanted. He got them to apologize, and sent them back with a slap on the wrist. After a while he came back topside and, since then, claims both the surface and the Underworld as his realm, spending half the time upstairs and half the time downstairs, hence the day/night cycle.
  • I'm not quite sure which cults still believes that second version though? Definitely anybody from old-school Dara-Happan descent, along with Pure Horse People? But I don't know about Yelmalio initiates? I assume Elmal initiates believe the Lightbringers Quest version?

Both Orlanthi and Yelmies agree that Orlanth slew the Emperor, they differ in who that emperor was. Orlanthi say it was Yelm, Yelmies say it was Yelm's son (Murharzarm, but don't mention the name at this stage) who took the blade, and that Yelm disintegrated out of grief. I am not sure that it matters much - the rebel Orlanth drew the sword against the Emperor, and Yelm ended up in Hell.

Yelm summoning the rebels to Hell and demanding the destruction of the world for it to be born again is the Dara Happan version of the events, and plays down the survival myths of the Greater Darkness that both the Orlanthi and the Horse Nomads share.

 

What this lacks is the dread of the Greater Darkness, and to be honest, I am not quite sure how to present that. Chaos horde let loose and destroying gods and inhabitants from existence (and from ever having existed) is bad enough, but should one tell stories where entire countries were sucked into Nothingness, and how the Web of Arachne Solara pulled surviving shards of reality back together with the net she had spun out of the food given to her as Kajabor?

All of this affects even Godtime, retroactively. There used to be more to Godtime, and there are rough edges in Godtime where this re-editing is incomplete, where heroquesting can call forth unexpected fragments of things forgotten.

But this is probably as remote from a short "this is how the world works" as you can get, and possibly deterring initial efforts to GM.

 

So: Yes, ignore stuff that has disappeared, but reserve the right to make stuff reappear as and how you think you want to re-invent the world in a huge magical undertaking of your player heroes in some aspect of Glorantha. When the moon falls down, the Crater will be affected too, you can expect fissures in the earth, and stuff may disappear or re-appear. All of that is still a generation in the future, but if your characters get children now, they will be at the age of your characters now when that stuff happens.

[Lordabdul]

22 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Most gods have alternative names. Mention that fact rather than give out even more things to remember.

I mentioned the alternative name because that's the name Lunar characters would use. But yeah, if everybody's from Dragon Pass or Prax, there's no need to mention it.

22 minutes ago, Joerg said:

What this lacks is the dread of the Greater Darkness, and to be honest, I am not quite sure how to present that.

If it doesn't explain anything of the everyday life, I don't think it needs to be presented to the players anytime soon.

Thanks for all the other info

Edited July 3, 2019 by lordabdul

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, RHW said:

Mhorhys the Explainer, an NPC member of the party, follows this god.  He knows a lot of stuff and is always willing to explain it to the less brilliant. 

Did you have this NPC in the party purely as a plot device to explain things in a diegetic and "biased" way whenever the players had questions? If so, how did that go, and how did you eventually remove him from the party?

I really like how short and accessible most of the descriptions are -- especially the short bits about what to expect if someone ever graduates to Rune Lord of each major cult. Any reason why you downplayed the importance of Ernalda, though?

Edited July 3, 2019 by lordabdul

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, RHW said:

Q:  I want to kick ass and take names.  How do I do that?

You can't - you're illiterate! 😛 (and, because you're an Orlanthi, I'll obviously have to explain what that means - you can't read or write...)

If you really want to take names, join Lhankor Mhy.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Shiningbrow

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

You can't - you're illiterate! 😛 (and, because you're an Orlanthi, I'll obviously have to explain what that means - you can't read or write...)

If you really want to take names, join Lhankor Mhy.

Taking names and numbers is within the province of Issaries' Tradetalk, too, and LM does teach this much already to lay members.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, lordabdul said:

If it doesn't explain anything of the everyday life, I don't think it needs to be presented to the players anytime soon.

But Chaos does. And I think this ties into the seasons as well.

Sacred Time: in the ancient days, the Gods fought. And because they fought, Chaos entered the world. Chaos is not simply evil, but corrupts and destroys everything it touches. If Chaos devours your soul, it is gone forever - annihilated, and even your name and perhaps the memory of your existence will be gone. The gods and mortals fought to stop Chaos. They succeeded and made the Great Compromise to save the world, though it left a bit of Chaos still within the world.  You learned this when you were initiated and entered the secrets of adulthood. Now each year during Sacred Time, we reenact the ancient stories, we step back into the Great Darkness, and we help the gods keep the Great Compromise intact so that a New Year may begin.

[RHW]

15 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Did you have this NPC in the party purely as a plot device to explain things in a diegetic and "biased" way whenever the players had questions? If so, how did that go, and how did you eventually remove him from the party?

Mhorrhys started as an NPC, and yes, he existed purely as a plot device for in-game info dumps and it worked very well.

But then I ended up playing him as my own character when someone else GMed. Because the campaign was combat heavy, he turned into a badass swordsage, but it was still his job to Explain Things to Morons (a skill he had at mastery) even when I was a player. His final stats and skills, around the time of the Dragonrise, are here:

 

15 hours ago, lordabdul said:

I really like how short and accessible most of the descriptions are -- especially the short bits about what to expect if someone ever graduates to Rune Lord of each major cult. Any reason why you downplayed the importance of Ernalda, though?

The Treefell Clan has a Lightbringer Ring, so Chalana Arroy is a bit more important than her to them. For a different clan, I'd definitely put much more emphasis on  Ernalda. Note that like Engazi they do maintain a temple to her though. Hence the ** by her name.

Edited July 3, 2019 by RHW

[Ochoa]

On 6/30/2019 at 9:03 PM, Bill the barbarian said:

my thread of Dragon Pass pastimes. 

What how where!