davecake

FWIW, I think that there are a lot of magicians in Glorantha who in some ways integrate or straddle animist and theist form of magic. We know of a few examples - Storm Bull/Urox does so very effectively, probably Kygor Litor does as well, Waha less effectively, Odayla a little bit, elves do, etc. Magic that integrates or straddles sorcery and shamanism is much less common, but I think this is, to some extent, because it is more common in areas we don't know much about - and the dominant sorcery traditions, that is to say Malkionism, generally rejects animism strongly. Actually I think Malkionist sorcery generally has a quite good theoretical understanding of how to integrate sorcery and animist approaches to magic - but they call it demonology, and teach that only bad people like God Learners, Arkati, and Vadeli do it. Meanwhile, they somehow all keep their demonology books in their library, just in case it should become useful.... And likewise, many shamanic traditions think sorcery is forbidden magic, the practice of which is damaging to the soul and incompatible with being a shaman. Illumination may be necessary to combine sorcery and shamanism in most shamanic traditions - its notable that one of the things the Nysalor cult did in the First Age was teach shamans to use sorcery. But I think traditions that integrate or straddle sorcery and animism are more common other parts of the world that we don't have a detailed understanding of. Integrating ancestor worship and dealing with local spirits might quite happily coexist with sorcerous magic in Kralorela (and summoning your ancestors is particularly effective and helpful if your ancestors happen to be learned sorcerers). And in Fonrit, the ruling Garangordos tradition can be seen as an attempt to reinvent a lot of the traditions of Pamaltelan shamanism as civilised, often sorcerous, magic. I think there are a few traditions in Fonrit that clearly straddle animist and sorcerous tradition (including one extremely nasty variant of ancestor worship, involving giving your ancestors new bodies by buying slaves and Tapping their POW so your ancestors can possess the bodies without resistance).

I don't think the problem with shamans is, or has ever been, power really. In RQ2 Shamans were masters of using normal battle magic, with the fetch really boosting their effectiveness, and a few spirits were really helpful as well. But spirits were not well defined in the rules, and being really good at battle magic might have been effective but just did not seem as interesting as Rune Magic. In RQ3 shamans could easily become virtually immune to magic cast by others, as they added their fetches POW to their own defensively, and spirits were defined well enough that there were a few interesting options. But in RQ3 spirit cults were usually defined by the rune magic they granted access too, so shamans often ended up more like a variant priest in play. Both the HeroQuest Kolat writeup and the RQ6 approach seemed to have a fun workable approach that makes animism seem both interesting to play and distinct from other forms of magic - concentrate on defining a collection of interesting spirits, and what you can do with them, rather than just making shamanism a variant approach to getting the same magic as others do.

Marriage between bloodlines is probably ok, if there are known to be no otherwise awkward entwining of the bloodlines. Sex without children between different clan bloodlines probably definitely fine (and much pursued by older teenagers). From time to time people will fall in love and I can't see there being a strong case for the ring etc to get involved. But a marriage across clans is going to be preferred by almost everyone. A dowry changes hands, alliances are strengthened, future bloodline issues are minimised, an excuse for a big party, potential kinstrife issues minimised, more independence for both partners. Probably magically better too. The ring is absolutely going to want a cross clan wedding if they have anything to do with it.

I think Argan Argar is a pretty good PC cult, certainly if in a darkness friendly clan. Not as trade focussed as Issaries, but that can work well for adventurers - you also get a little defensive darkness magic, spear fighting, and some interesting connections.

A hunter is definitely not the same as a thief, but has similar enough abilities (stealthy, dangerous when striking from surprise, knows about traps, perceptive, etc) that they are close enough for adventuring purposes. You really are not going to get any equivalent of a classic thief in a clan culture, you are going to have to go to a largish urban centre to get someone who steals professionally. Though plenty of Orlanthi sneak around and raid neighbouring clans. Another cult that is definitely worth considering if you want a sneaky character is Yinkin.

Earth is unusual in that it tends to distinguish between the positive and negative aspects (eg Ernalda and Voria positive, Maran Gor and Babeester Gor negative), but this may even be unique to the Orlanthi Earth Pantheon. The negative version of Fire is a whole separate Element, Darkness - and while mostly Darkness deities are in entirely separate pantheons, we do see eg the Raven and Sun Hawk or Dendara and her sister Gorgorma. The Storm and Water approaches seem a bit different. There don't seem to be any Water deities related to the deprivation of water - powers related to the deprivation of water seem to either be other elements (eg Daga) or draconic. There are water gods with drowning and other negative water power. And while there are gods related to lack of movement in the air (well, one, Molanni, anyway) mostly the 'bad' side of Storm comes from too much (eg the violence of Vadrus), rather than not enough.

So what I'm trying to work out here is is there a terminological correspondence here that is straight forward to explain between the names used by the two games, and (regardless of potential for confusion), do the two sets of terminology describe the same Glorantha? Saying that HQG Basic Magic is not RQ Spirit Magic just leaves us with a few other questions. Because if orthodox Western peasants and warriors, not to mention every Orlanthi, is running around with Spirit Magic and charms, that is clearly not a thing that would happen in HQG. So then Spirit Magic and charms in HQG don't seem to mean exactly the same as Spirit Magic and charms in RQ, which is at the very least incredibly confusing in a practical sense (eg whenever any document uses the terms, it will immediately raise questions), and at worst means the version of Glorantha described by the two games is confusingly different.

There appears to be some terminology here that is confusing me. In HeroQuest Glorantha, everyone has access to 'Basic Magic', simple magic that is done by the heroes own power. Its a fairly simple form of magic (though it can be potent) and more or less available cross-culturally. And Spirit Magic is the name for magic performed by spirits, usually dependent on someone with the Spirit Rune to mediate with the spirit world. You get a spirit, put it in a charm, and then you have access to specific magic from that spirit. You need to be part of a Spirit Society, have access to Spirit Magic specialists (usually a Shaman), etc. It sounds like new RQ is planning to use the term Spirit Magic (and also charms) to refer to what used to be called Battle Magic in RQ2 (or Folk Magic in RQ6), and we've gone back to RQ3 terminology for RQ, even though the terminology in HQG is quite different? Or to put it differently, is the plan for RQ and HQ to use two different sets of terminology to refer to magic? Terminology in which most of what would be Spirit Magic in RQ would not be Spirit Magic in HQ?

Looking at the Dragon Pass counter list, the only good heavy cavalry in the Sartar Free Army there are probably Praxians - the Twin Spears and Bullocks we know are Praxian, the Sword Brothers I think are almost all Praxian. The Sartar City Militia cavalry units are OK, the equal of the Tarsh cavalry, but not as good as the Praxian or best Pelorian units. such as the Antelope Lancers and Char-Un or elite Imperial Bodyguard units.

I love the standards art!

Fwiw, I've tended to think of the Lunar phalanxes as mostly following a conservative Greek model, and the Sun Dome Templars as more like Macedonian phalangites, using a longer spear. Innovation hasn't simply dragged all units to the same standard because of the natural conservatism of Gloranthan religiously enhanced units (don't vary your tactics if it might hurt your magic). The Sartarites I'm not sure have great heavy cavalry. Their horses are more like ponies, and I do think they train for proper lance charges etc - mostly they use similar weapons mounted as they do unmounted. What cavalry they have will mostly be from Elmal worshipping clans (Redaylda is the actual most important deity here, but Elmal likes to take the glory). Some Praxians do have powerful heavy cavalry, of course, and some of them are in the Sartar Free army. Super heavy cavalry like cataphracts are not known to the Sartarites and they simply don't have horses capable. The Loskalmi and the Carmanians do, so you might see some in Lunar forces. I don't think anyone in Glorantha fights quite like Roman legions.

I very much hope the Kolat write up for HQG gives us some ideas for what me might get - shamans with a very wide range of possible magic depending on what spirits they are able to access, which is all tied in to a complex web of spirit relationships. One of the things that RQ6 absolutely got right was focussing the shaman/animism rules on a really interesting menagerie of spirits. But it's true that mechanically it would be great to vary shamans own abilities a little as well, make spirit combat or spirit plane exploration a bit more mechanically interesting, and give the shamans fetch a few more abilities.

Thanks, mistake corrected. Ezok might be a word meaning something like transformation then.

I'm with Peter on this one. There might be good reason for Theoblanc to have issues with particular alchemists or particular alchemical practices (undoubtedly lots of different ideas have crept in from non-Malkioni sources), but alchemy itself is ancient, the Ezokite school dates from the dawn and was part of the Zzaburi era magic that the Rokari want to emulate, and IMO serves an absolutely vital part in magic theory. Theoblanc may keep a close eye on it, but of course it will be supported.

I don't find anything in either East Isles orthodox mysticism or the Kralorelan Dragon Emperors to suggest that they are nihilists. The Empire does a few highly dubious things, but that is true of every empire. Perhaps the Easterners are on to something. Or if you want to get really conspiratorial, they maintain their facade much more skilfully and effectively - effectively enough it stops them from actually doing too many bad things. But skepticism about Arkat, the Lunar Empire, and Argrath would all appear to be somewhat warranted.

If you start hunting humans, yeah, there are people who already have that power. And they are not nice people. But there is heaps of story potential here. A hunter villain that starts using his spirit trapping magic on sentient beings must be hunted down. Or a hunter PC learns how to do it as a way to defeat a difficult to defeat enemy (say, a spirit that keeps possessing people) - then discovers he has tapped into a nasty ancient secret, and now cannibals want to confront him to preserve their power.

I think its interesting that the Illuminates all seem to acknowledge that Illumination is potentially very dangerous and disruptive, though. They all realise it is philosophical gunpower they are playing with.

I have quite a bit of experience travelling through the dry arid parts of central Australia, and the river beds are very stable and distinct, even if they are entirely made of sand and rock and might run only every few years.

Remember Lhankor Mhy uses sorcery, which is very respectable. And there are other sorcerers not very far away, such as the Esvulari and some of the Black Horse Troop. It's not just Lunars and such. Though yes, some of the bad guys, such as vampires, are quite fond of sorcery.

I think EvilRoddys thesis is way overstated. Which isn't to say that no one believes it. Though chopping up the established order is, of course, something that many people needs to be done now and then. The Dragon Emperors explicitly are stated to behave pretty much the opposite of this in Kralorelan sources - Daruda could have attained enlightenment and united with the void and left the world, but he did not to compassionately aid the spiritual life of others, and future (legitimate) Dragon Emperors have followed this example, and expliitly bind society together for its own good and keep it stable over long periods. Of course, the Dragon Emperors would agree that the version of Illumination practiced over there in Peloria, or by Sheng, is clearly every bit as evil and terrible as claimed. Or by Sekever. It is characteristic of Illumination that every school of Illumination seems to agree that Illumination is dangerous and terrible, but only when done wrong by the other guys (but of course they are the one group who knows how to do it right).

Species Max POW increasing via heroQuest seems a pretty reasonable mechanic to me. Linking it into your Rune Affinities also seems like a good idea. It helps ensure Rune Affinities remain an important thing to increase for shamans and sorcerers.

To distinguish between giants, perhaps we could use the Gods War terminology and refer to Genert (and Pamalt) as Titans? I think Peter is on to something with Generts rune being Power. The Power rune is really about social power - Pamalts big power is to convince everyone else to act together. It is true that the Rune doesn't seem to have any relevance to Genertela. But perhaps this is because Genert is dead, and so the Power is absent, so the gods fell to squabbling rather than acting together (even the enemies of Pamalt like the elves and trolls and Artmali would act together with him when necessary) and so that is why Genertela is regularly ripped apart by War, and Pamaltela is not? Which is not to say that Pamaltela does not have wars - but they all come from external sources, ultimately.

Some great fun stuff in your list David.

Look at the Odayla spirit trapping powers that he can use to create charms from the spirits of slain animals in the Sartar Companion. It is very plausible that Foundchild has access to similar magic. Now just extend that to beings other than animals, so you can also defeat and trap the spirits of other beings and turn them into charms, and you have something powerful and a bit scary. But isn't it something powerful and scary that resembles the Cannibal Cult, which also takes power from their slain prey/enemies, just a little too much? Perhaps there is a secret of Foundchild there. And its not a very nice one.....

I like the idea of the arts of Memory. I think there is quite a lot of rich potential in the idea that interaction with the 'Essential plane' begins with the sorcerers own memory palace.