Jeff

Pralor is written up in the Cults Book as an exemple Hsunchen cult (along with Basmol, Mralota, Telmor, and Rathor). I have a LOT of material on Pralorela. Here's the Third Age history of the area: THIRD AGE The early Third Age was spent stabilizing the lands from the disasters that ended the Second Age. As is common in such turmoil, Chaos found the opportunity to strike and grow. Mallia spread wide her maw, broo raped their way to strength, and a small ogre kingdom tried to gain ascendancy along the Vankthi River before being smashed by otters, newtlings, and an unusual collection of werebeast magicians summoned for the special occasion. The people sorted themselves into four generalized groups of people, based primarily upon their region and favorite deities. They spoke the same language and knew generally of their common heritage, but thought more of their immediate concerns rather than long-range ideals. The first group were the coastal and island dwellers. They were mostly survivors from the sinking of Slontos and eked out a poor living with farming. Herding was more successful, but failed to provide enough wealth to support cities. The ruins of Hermat, an ancient Pralori city in ages past, were used as the seat of power. Their favorite god was Voriof, the Herding God, and Humakt was their god of war. The second group were the tribes of the Noshain River through the fens. They favored Orlanth as King of the Gods, though they had no king themselves. They could not afford to worship the lesser deities of the Lightbringer Pantheon. They were, however, friends with the cult of Noshain, god of their river. Noshain’s cult was exclusively in the control of the otters who guaranteed or withdrew protection of the humans’ rafts and canoes. The playful otters did not bother to oppress with their position of superior communications, and so the peoples were peacefully knit together, plagued only by their daily lives and human jealousies. The third tribe was the Sarbosi River peoples. They lived in tiny hamlets within the marsh and along the lower river, and in fishing villages along the higher, dryer portions. Their favored deity was Sarboai, the River God that they loved, but they also offered great propitiatory rites to the nameless Spirit of the Marsh, a formless and fearful entity which could control the mud sharks, crocodiles, will o wisps, giant frogs, giant herons, giant whirligigs, eerie mists, dense fogs, and mysterious sounds. It was the Spirit of the Marsh who caused the land to turn to reed and reed to turn to water in the spring, and then change all of the channels of a well-known river when no persons were there to know. The fourth group were the conservative Pralori in the dryer parts of the region, living in small bands and following the herds of elk from hill to lowland each year. They still worshiped Pralor and Foundchild the Hunter God, and trusted shamans to keep them safe from trouble. These groups spoke with the same accent, and they preferred to cut their meat in certain ways, or to use different rites in propitiatory sacrifices. But disunity was their most common feature. The Noshain group had at least twenty chieftain who each swore to his own independence, while the traditionalists in the hills were uncountable family bands who met and dissolved according to season or occasion. Their fractured independence was common to all of them. Southward, beyond the rugged Soft Hills, the land of Ramalia was a larger grouping of Slontan survivors. The region was untouched by the disasters, but refugees and raiders had reduced their population. Many kinglets, often bearing ancient titles, waited in their quiet land, listening to philosophers wonder at their sorry fate, and each year beggared themselves with expensive sacrifices to the terrifying ocean in hope that they would be spared their ancestors’ fate. To the west Tarnin’s Forest had grown in strength. The Aldryami reached from the Soft Hills to the southern edge of the Noshain River and New Fens. The Elk Hills were, as before, the hunting grounds for barbarians from Pralorela and from Helby in Ralios. To the east were the Wenelian barbarians. They were mostly forest dwellers, descended from mixed Pralori, Entruli, and Slontan stock. They were mainly Lightbringer worshipers. Handra Liv was a slave from a land in Ralios, sold as a child to a boatsmith and as a youth to a boating company. She spent years at the oar, plying the rivers and lakes of Ralios until she and her fellows were swept up in the slave revolts of 1150 which swept the lakes of Ralios. Handra was one of thousands who plundered Helby and one of hundreds who managed to escape two years later when heavy horsemen arrived to settle the dilemma. Handra led a loyal band southward through the Elk Hills where some of them found their old people. Handra lived for a while among the traditional Elk peoples, but could not resist the call of the Sarboai River. Handra went to a place she blessed as the Source of the River, and there found a shrine to Diros, God of Boats. This was also the ancient place where Diros had left the waters to trek overland, and so was already powerful with the spirit. Handra Liv then proceeded downriver, pointing to trees which Diros had shown her in a vision. These were chopped down and sent floating upon the river. Where they all landed was decreed another holy place, and that is the high point boats can sail, called Highwater. There Handra Liv built a boat from the wood she had gathered, and Diros was pleased to see another shrine set up. Then Handra sailed downriver to the mouth of the Sarboai, where it joins the Noshain. There she called together all the people and beings she could find, and together they made a wonderful floating temple to Diros. Handra taught people how to make better boats, and how to worship the boat god. She pleased the otters by making them supreme River Priests in their river, with no other race allowed, though other races are priests on the tributaries. Handra Liv then sailed downriver with many craft, until they lost sight of both riverbanks and though they must be entering the dreaded ocean. The waters were both muddy and salty when the flotilla was attacked by a kraken and half the loyal boatmen lost. The magical effects of Zzabur’s curse took effect then as they abruptly found themselves sailing towards their river again. There were some islands nearby and Handra Liv instructed everyone to land on them. They erected another temple to Diros there, the Mouth of the Noshain. The river god answered his summons, and told the prayers which he and Diros had once before made 270 kilometers away from there. A new pact was made, and Handra Liv was awarded High Priesthood of the Noshain. Handra Liv ruled for 93 years. By that time there were many boats plying their ways along the rivers, aided and guarded by proper worship of the gods. Trade, meager as it was, moved along the waterways. Towns grew up, especially in the northern regions around Highwater where good trekked overland from Ralios. About the year 1300 a previously sporadic trade emanating from the east, past Wenelia, began steadily entering the New Fens. This was carried overland by Issaries merchants from the Holy Country. This was an unheard of place, but people soon learned that a stranger had swum ashore from the inhospitable seas and, with much labor and several lives, established himself as a God-King, of the region and instituted a new way of life. The Shadowlands, which had been ruled by the Only Old One and his trolls since before the Dawn, was cast down forever. Highwater became an important post along this land-based route. It was also the first site to fall to the adventurous nobles from Ralios who sought to get rich on the route. These Trader Princes established bases through the north of Pralorela and Wenelia to the Holy Country, and for centuries prospered. At first the occupation of Highwater caused consternation among the river peoples, but after wars and invasions proved their eternal cost the inevitable compromise was reached. The rulers of Highwater endorsed the river cult and the city became the unofficial capital of the region. The press of civilization moved downriver and wherever there was trade or worship there were small towns. Better places fostered larger populations, and the Seven Isles, at the Mouth of the Noshain, was in an excellent position. Seven Isles was puny by most city standards, but it was the largest city on the coast for many hundreds of kilometers. Its boats also ventured for short distances along the coast, and the residents made contact with newtling groups who lived even further away and who claimed to be in contact with the Deep Sea people, the Triolini. In 1580 a ship, propelled by sails, approached the Seven Isles from the sea. It was larger than any boat men knew, and everyone recognized the craft of a god. Some thought it was Diros arriving once again. It was not the god of boats but the god of ships. This was the craft of Dormal the Sailor, who brought new secrets and a cult to the city of Seven Isles. He offered to sell them the secrets, and a long period of peace, for great treasure and wealth. He received it, and kept his word, then recruited many young people and creatures for his crews and sailed off with two ships. Seven Isles quickly set up their religion, built a ship, and tested their faith. Dormal’s words were true. No black fog enveloped them, no mysterious force turned them about. More ships were built and a small flotilla sailed eastward along the coast, towards the direction Dormal came from. They found other small cities like their own, who were also building ships but were slower since they lacked the resources of the Seven Isles. The flotilla reached the Holy Country, where Dormal came from, and paid homage to the God-King and the High Priest of Dormal. Trade began, and was established with cities to the west as well. In 1583, an army from Ralios moved over the Elk Hills at the request of the Prince of Highwater, and landed into boats to sail south. The intent was to seize the Seven Isles and take control of all the resources of the Noshain. But there was quick resistance, and the invaders were destroyed. A Seven Isles force was sent northward and seized Highwater with aid from the citiens. The Malkion temple was razed and the ashes sent to the wind. An Orlanth Temple, with other shrines in it, was established. Seven Isles continued its growth, but its leaders did break away from Highwater. The distance was too great, and Seven Isles profited from the inland contact but was rightfully preoccupied with the seas. Highwater lost its importance as a stop along a profitable trade route and dwindled in size. Most people moved to Seven Isles, or more popularly called Handra, which welcomed them and their wares. When Sartar fell in 1602 many refugees moved south into the Holy Country, but for many there was no welcome for them there. Unrest grew, and many followed their instincts to Seven Isles. A considerable refugee population was established and many wandering exiles have found their way there.

I don't think anyone tries to use it as a deep-dive resurrection for people who have been dead more than a week. It is way too fricking dangerous. Maybe if you said it gets used to try to bring back dead gods and demigods that have been killed by gods or god-like entities, then maybe you'd be standing on better ground. But even then it is not really that. The dead god/demigod is almost always an enemy of the quester (Yelm, Arkat, Talor, and Narnarra), and never a friendly entity.

You probably are. And if Sheng is the Red Emperor's Shadow (see Fortunate Succession), then his absence is a missing part of the cosmic order.

Lake Kjartan is at about 900 meters of elevation. The Seven Falls are low enough that salmon can make it upriver. Wilmskirk, further upriver and inland is at 920 meters.

The heroquest in the Colymar Campaign is not the Lighbringer's Quest, but at most a single small step in that quest (and given that none of the previous steps are made, I'd say it is not even that). Orlanthi use the Lightbringers as vehicles to make that descent because the Lightbringers are well-known for their descent into the Underworld - and we all know that they make it out. But Orlanthi use the Lightbringers as vehicles for most of their heroquesting (and even some non-Orlanthi do as well). That doesn't make this the LBQ.

And yet what? It is not my problem if some people on these forums do that. That's not how it appears in mythology or in any stories Greg or I have written.

Sea level.

Wild Mountain: This steep and conical mountain thrusts up abruptly above the Richvale. Its summit has an elevation of 2250 meters and the mountain is largely separate from the rest of the Quivin Mountains. Its forested slopes are sacred to Yinkin.

The Lightbringers Quest is about restoring the cosmic order by returning the Sun from Hell. It certainly shouldn't be treated as a resurrection spell.

Greg and I worked quite a bit on this, and needless to say, details have changed a lot from his musings in the 2000s.

The original LBQ brought back Yelm. That's the template. Not a specific individual, but the needed part of the cosmic order. That's why it is called the Lightbringers Quest after all. After the original LBQ, it was tried by Harmast. And the needed part of the cosmos was - a Darkness entity. Harmast tried it again. And the needed part of the cosmos was - a Flame-wielding son of said Darkness entity. Now by then Harmast might have cheated a bit. He'd already done the LBQ once (and not the Short version Kallyr tried, but an epic version that ended up being effectively two Westfarings and one heck of trip into the Underworld), and he learned a lot from Arkat. Maybe Harmast was able to identify a specific individual! After that, the Short LBQ had been done a number of times in history, but the full Lightbringers Quest last succeeded in the Second Age. And in Ralios. Kallyr is trying the "Short"LBQ - a massive ritual during Sacred Time with thousands of participants, but more predictable but less powerful than the full thing.

The Good Order. The restored cosmos. The LBQ is NOT about recovering a specific person. Harmast did not begin his LBQ thinking "let's bring back some Brithini warlord" - it is about bringing forth a new Dawn, a new Age, where the cosmos has been restored. One makes peace with an adversary to together Chaos and the Great Darkness is defeated (in the mundane world). Kallyr has the Kingdom of Sartar perform the Short LBQ in order to "restore" cosmic order, or at least she hopes. Everyone and everything gets a proper sanctified place and the proper cosmic order is established and reinforced.

People on these lists massively overstate the tension between Yelm Imperator and the Red Goddess. Pretty much every member of the Yelm Imperator subcult IS an initiate of the Red Goddess and an Illuminate, and the Red Emperor is the head of the cult. Let the implications of that sink in for a moment. Yelm Imperator is a faction WITHIN the Lunar religion, and any tension is going to be within the Lunar religion - with entities like Great Sister or with the White Moon (which is persecuted). But the illuminated Yelm Imperator cult represents the establishment of the Lunar Empire - it defines the mainstream.

Yelm is the Imperial Sun, the fiery source of life and death. He is taken VERY seriously by the Lunars, and his worship defines the social and cosmic order. The Red Goddess shows there are things beyond even the Imperial Sun, which is acknowledged and accepted by the Yelm cult. The Lunar Empire is an empire of Sun AND Moon. It is a Solar Empire with a ruddy taint. Or a Lunar Empire with a golden halo.

You don't "attempt" the Tournament - the leaders of the Sixths, along with other sacred people, invoke it at the City of Wonders and the participants find themselves participating, knowingly or unknowingly. Several Tournaments were held after 1616, all failed. Now the City of Wonders is no more, and it is pretty obvious there won't be another Tournament.

Some notes you all might find interesting. For centuries, Belintar was able to coordinate magical activity to everyone's benefit in the Holy Country. The gods were often manifest - so you didn't need tribal rites to have that contact. Belintar (or his stand-in) would invite the god to his palace, and everyone would enjoy the blessings. In Sea Season, big rites in Seapolis; in Fire Season, big rites at the High Temple in Caladraland; in Earth season, big rites in Ezel; in Darkness season, big rites atop the Shadow Plateau; and in Storm Season, big rites in Bullflood or whatever temple complex is below Stormwalk. Then the City of Wonders would tie it all together in Sacred Time - in fact, it always was like Sacred Time there. Crossing between the worlds was easy as long as Belintar was there to facilitate it. The Sixths were able to specialize in their elemental resources and work in coordination with the others to create a harmonious magical whole. It was a Golden Age returned to the world. The main gods got identified with their Runes: Ernalda-Gata, Lodril-Aether, Choralinthor-Zaramaka, Kyger Litor-Nakala, and of course Orlanth-Umath. I think when Belintar was around, the Holy Country was like Tamriel in the Elder Scrolls - six lands, each with their own strong identity, landscape, and even light and weather! Of course this had social changes.Tribal entities atrophied and disappeared. Having a God-King rule for three centuries of peace and prosperity added him to everyone's pantheon. Belintar was responsible for such phenomena as the harvest, the weather, defense against the enemy, for good luck with trade, and more. When Belintar disappeared, the Gods War came crashing back. Wolf Pirates, Western Barbarians, civil strife, Lunar invasions, and Chaos. Without Belintar, there are no established methods to handle these crises. Everything is ad hoc, and up for grabs. For twelve years, this continues, until finally many leaders decide to invite Argrath to be king - if he will protect them. A brief history of Heortland When Belintar came to the Holy Country, trolls and Hendriki tribe were dominant. The Hendriki were not an Orlanth Rex tribe, like the tribes in Sartar, and did not have access to that magic. Initially they were a "clan" - Hendrik was a bandit leader, not a king. His warband was held together by his own charisma and magic. When Hendrik died in 439, one of his companions Selelmal took over leadership of Hendrik's band, aka the Hendriki. It was Dinorth who actually founded the kingdom. He was given the magical regalia by Sindan Black who journeyed to the Western Ocean and returned. These were a crown, a scepter, and six magical items. Possession of this regalia + the tribal rites made one king. Clans obeyed the king or not, but the king was the king. The Hendriki expanded and contracted over the centuries. Sometimes they were little more than just the area around Whitewall. Sometimes they ruled all of Heortland and much of Esrolia. In 1300, the Hendriki ruled most of Heortland. The Bandori were a subject tribe. Southern Heortland was ruled by the Bandori, a subject tribe of the Hendriki. The Orshanti were a large clan centered on what is now Jansholm. They split over the rise of the Red Moon, with Colymar and his Esrolian wife leading his Black Spear Clan - zealots, visionaries, and adventurers - into Dragon Pass. In 1313, Belintar arrived. We all know the story. He killed the Hendriki King, who supported the Only Old One, and then a year later resurrected him. Many Hendriki refused to acknowledge the returned king, others did, and others directly revered Belintar. Some groups decided to risk exile into Dragon Pass. By 1350, the Hendriki kingdom is gone. Heortland - named after the great cultural hero who was often invoked by Belintar - was a Sixth of the Holy Country. The God-King kept good contacts with all the gods of the Holy Country, and to the rest of the world this was a part of the Otherworld manifest in the mundane world. Occasionally, gods or great monsters visited the Holy Country, and there were known to be many secret gates into the Otherworld. The Orlanth cult was strongly supported, but one that worked in conjunction with the other gods of the Sixths - a Monomythed Orlanth that could play A leading role (but not THE leading role) in something larger. This was intolerable to the would be heirs of the Hendriki and in 1340, a group of clans gathered at Whitewall and acclaimed Hardard the Green as king of the Volsaxi confederation. The Volsaxi proclaimed their independence and autonomy. Curiously Belintar took no direct action against the Volsaxi, although his governors in Heortland often fought against them. During this rebellion, other groups entered Dragon Pass - the Locaem, Kultain, and Dundealos tribes among others. Heortland was mostly administered according to traditional law, but social institutions did change. Clans tended to have a single ruling family, from which the leader would be chosen, etc. Clans supported heavy chariot cavalry (that were eventually supplanted by heavy horse cavalry once large enough horses could be reliably obtained from the Grazelands. Heortland itself is divided into four provinces: Vandarland, Gardufar, and Esvular. The fourth, Volsaxiland, largely governs itself. The borders change from time to time., but basically they are this: Volsaxi - from the Crossline to the Marzeel River. Vandarland - from the Marzeel to either the Syphon or the Bullflood rivers. Gardufar - from the Syphon or Bullflood rivers to the Minthos. Esvular - from the Minthos to the Nomad Marches. In 1541, the trolls of the Troll Woods took control of Whitewall and broke the Volsaxi confederation. The Kitori took control of trade between Sartar (and Peloria and Prax) and the rest of the Holy Country, and imposed high tariffs (basically robbery). This lasted until Prince Tarkalor defeated the Kitori with the aid of the Yelmalio cult. He refounded the Volsaxi confederation at Whitewall and built a road between Whitewall and Karse. All of this was done with Belintar's tacit approval. This greatly increased trade between Sartar and the Holy Country, and made the Sartar princes rich enough to contend with the Lunar Empire for another 30+ years. In 1616, Belintar disappeared. The governor of Heortland died and in 1617, two kingdoms divided Heortland between them. In the north, Broyan of the Volsaxi proclaimed the return of the Hendriki kingdom with himself as king. Much of Vandarland acknowledged him. Gardufar and Esvular supported the Western adventurer Rikard the Tiger-hearted, who proclaimed his kingdom of New Malkonwal. The two successor states lasted only two years before the Lunar Empire invaded in 1619. All of Volsaxiland (except Whitewall) quickly fell. In 1620, Malkonwal fell. Small Lunar garrisons were placed in all the larger cities of Heortland, and in 1621 Whitewall fell. But even this lasted only a short time. In 1622, Broyan reappeared and raised the Hendriki in rebellion, and many in the former Malkonwal supported him. The Bandori proclaimed their independence as well. Broyan inflicted a surprising defeat on the Lunar Army at Auroch Hills northwest of Whitewall and then fled to Esrolia to aid the new anti-Lunar queen. The Lunars followed in 1623 and besieged Nochet for a year to no avail, while their garrisons in Heortland were withdrawn. In 1624, the Lunar Army was routed at Pennel Ford and had to march all the way back to Sartar. Then in 1625, Broyan was killed and nobody knows how to perform his rites. So that's where things are now. A confused mess. No tribes beyond the Bandori. Just a lot of warlords, adventurers, and ad hoc arrangements. I suspect that's how things will remain until 1628.

That makes me very happy to hear!

One thing to keep in mind - this is set more than 2000 years before the present.

Because there are lots of different types of specialties people can have.

Even then. INT governs how much you can do with knowledge, but not your raw ability to work magic.

Because raw magical talent is not a function of INT. Anymore than it is a function of CON or DEX.

To start with, there's aren't enough Lunar soldiers. At the height of the Lunar Occupation, right before the invasion of the Holy Country, there were about 20,000 soldiers in Dragon Pass, plus the Crimson Bat. There's about 200 clans in Sartar, so you are talking about sending 100 soldiers to every clan simultaneously, which means spreading things incredibly thin. The Volsaxi might even be able to march on Boldhome. And the presence of the Bat might well encourage a full-fledge Praxian Rebellion. You'd definitely have a rebellion even among the friendly tribes, and maybe even in Tarsh, Holay, and Aggar. Also, these religious ceremonies are dangerous to intrude on. Spirits, guardian deities, and more - at their strongest. Who knows what other powers might be brought into the world? An succession of small defeats, combined with a foreign attack, might easily result in the collapse of the Lunar Provincial system. And for what? Something a new Temple of the Reaching Moon will take care on its own?

Or you can also see it as what happens to every revolutionary or mystical movement. Being made up of people, it ends up being used by people. The Lunar Way, the Unity Council, the God Learner Collective, the Wyrms Friends, you name it.

Since there is no GenCon this year, none of us are going there, although we can participate virtually in the Online GenCon. And because of that, I think this thread needs to be about whether you are going to participate in the virtual con. Or else I will just lock it down.

Way more content, and way better put together. Clan and tribal economics and explanation, cults information, a complete gazetteer of Sartar at a greater level of detail (and far more useful information) than the old Dragon Pass gazetteer, etc. It explains Sartar far better than Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes did. And it is set now rather than during the Lunar Occupation. I am already finding my manuscript as my go to reference on Sartar.