metcalph

That's just a label and Revealed Mythologies is notoriously inconsistent about what the labels actually refer to (is there any real difference between Logic, Thought and Reason? I couldn't tell after reading RM). That's why I specified the action and appropriate region of God-Time following the example of the Seven Steps of the Red Goddess as it gives a clearer idea of what's being talked about. Moreover - how would you do this within the RuneQuest rules (which is what the OP was asking for)? Why strictly? (Why do you call the Zzaburi an over-caste?) I would have thought that if the other castes wanted to learn some sorcery then it would be permitted. I don't think anybody would normally bother with combat sorcery but sorcery magics to aid Sedalpist meditation would be reasonable (uncommon but still reasonable). For example, a spell which increased the chance of runic inspiration by +5% would be useful in meditation (ultimately it would be a crutch that must be discarded).

Malkioni outside the Wizard Caste are definitely not like any other Theyalan, except for the Aeolians. If you want a constructive discussion about magic in Malkioni society in general, start a new thread but please leave this for handling mysticism within the Sedalpists.

RW Magnetism affects everything, even flesh and concrete. Magnetic substances are just far more sensitive to the attractions and repulsions of magnetism than everything else (which is barely noticeable except for accurate measurements). So cites showing that Magnetic Mountain affects the entire world does not show that gloranthan magnetism is different to RW magnetism. Magnetic Mountain still attracts everything - the humans are just too uneducated to notice.

As an example of a mystical ritual. The Sedalpists aim to seek Perfect Reason. The basic mythic pattern is the Five Actions. 1) The Sedalpist starts with the Fifth Action (Great Darkness), which is destruction. He mediates upon the Death Rune, representing the destruction of worldly distractions. 2) He then moves to the Fourth Action (Storm Age) He mediates upon the Movement Rune to move his spirit to a higher place. 3) He then reaches the Third Action (Golden Age) by meditating upon the Harmony Rune to align his soul with the Cosmos. Now he has reached Makan, his intended spiritual goal. Going into the Green Age etc is Illumination and requires more than just meditation on another rune. I really don't know what the effects of this will be as a lot will be dependent on what the Gamemaster's Guide will say about Illumination and Heropowers. Conventionally Unity of one's mind with Makan is henosis that allows the sorcerer to create new magics . The Hrestoli go further and seek contact with the Hidden Mover and what happens there is dependent again on the Gamemaster's Guide.

My own thoughts on Mysticism are pretty nebulous. I think the best way to handle it in RQG would be through Runic Inspirations (RQG p227). Instead of using a runic inspiration for an augment, the character uses it to achieve a specific mental state. Through repeated attainments of these mental states, one achieves the desired spiritual goal (Henosis, Illumination, Enlightenment etc). Now the character will generally follow a ritual (the Seven Steps of the Goddess being the best described example) and will use sympathetic magic (p338) in order to aid his chance of success.

Laskal gets flooded in '52? Harrek's going to be pissed.

Another possibility is that Dwarves see air as a manifestation of pneuma or magic*, a disruptive force that must be contained or controlled. It would thus be the province of the Silver Dwarves (among other things, like spirits). States of air that can be affected by the change state technique would be: turbulent, foul (poisonous), stagnant, etc. Stabilise Air is probably what the Dwarves are doing on Nida and Greatway (Guide p297) with detrimental results for the local storm worshippers. *A much better word would be Gas which was historically coined from Chaos. But this has the tendency to be drowned out by its alternate meaning of petrol.

I think the Produce Flame, despite its pedigree, has a problem in that it creates something from nothing which isn't reflected in the Maker Magic section of the Bestiary. I would instead rewrite the spell with Heat being the substance acted on by the Six Techniques. Another way to do this might be Measure Self in which the Dwarf knows whereabouts in his body, he can extract the required substance with each caste having its own list of substances, it can provide.

It would fit better with what was given in the Bestiary if Condense or Precipitate was used instead of Reprocess. Then the spells could be filed under the Change State technique. That's Malkioni writing and while I think Greg would have been wiser to use Pneuma or Force, I'm really concerned with how the Mostali see things. Hence I am free to look at things like the Iron Energy Prison as being a Malkioni translation rather than what the dwarves actually call it. As for alchemy, I'm leaving that to one side until I get a handle on it. Eleven Troll Battles (Uz Lore p9 RQ3 edition) has the Great Victory between Wakboth and Kajabor fought in this area. The Guide p694 has the Hate Kills Everything - the same battle - being fought further east. What I was referring to is It implies electricity to most people - I'm suggesting it's actually steam which copper pipes are known to be used for*. If you can find some way in which magnetism is used that would be awesome. Although this will make your job much easier, copper isn't magnetic but cobalt is! (Chemistry factoid for the rest of you: Cobalt is so named because its ore looks like copper ore but actually isn't and so the miners that encountered it named it after the evil spirits that were supposed to have wasted their time - Kobolds) *However there's a problem with my suggestion in that heat is something handled by the Brass caste.

It's not their style. Their magic is expensive (even a measure spell costs 1 POW!) and in all the examples of their magic we've seen from Gods of Glorantha and Elder Secrets, there's nothing in the way of magic cast on their enemies (okay there is a produce flame which would be ruled out by the paradigm described in the Bestiary). You might think that it is a good idea to have magic that a) doesn't suck and b) is useful to directly on their foes - but the Dwarves do not. In any event, given that they do have Black Powder, they probably don't see the need for human-style combat magic. Tap is only known to the Silver Dwarves and I strongly doubt they make combat use of it. Second, speaking in terms of runes, I think it more evocative to speak in terms of substances rather than runes. I purposely did not write about iron mostali harvesting death rune energies from the battlefield but about death instead. As far as I can tell, each of the castes has some additional speciality in addition to their basic substance. Rock - Cement. Lead - Glass Quicksilver - Alchemy Copper - "Energy" (Which sounds too modern. Probably the writers were suggesting electricity but I think steam works just as well). Tin - Life, Flesh Brass - Heat Silver - Magic Gold - Mind Iron - Death. Now in terms of magic for the Silver Mostali, I feel we should be looking at what the Dwarves think magic is and how it can be worked with. Now the Mostali believe in the World Machine which created the world and is ideally static. Magic being a changing mutable force is alien to the Mostali worldview, almost akin to chaos. Therefore the dwarves think that magic is something that should be used up and made material wherever possible. It's not something desirable but raw waste that must be cleaned up and reclaimed. Think in terms of the six techniques. Shape Mind would be the spell for instructing others. As for working with the Tamestones, that's the job of the Tin Dwarves, not the Gold. If you are going to introduce new techiques, then make it unique for a caste (thus Tins already have Animate and Silvers have Tap). Possibly each cast may have its own special technique but they should be thought of in quirky terms (ie what would be an interesting thing for a caste to do) as opposed to useful (They dwarves would kick butt if they could cast a death spell - they could but they wouldn't be dwarves).

The main problem I have with your suggestions is that they are presented in the form of combat spells when that isn't what the Dwarves do. Rather than a silver dwarf casting a spell to reduce a Storm Voice's Storm Rune Affinity, he would be more likely to create a field that dampens the Storm Rune Affinity of everybody in the area. There's some evidence from the Guide that the Dwarves do this.

I think joinings and the like are permanent and like heal and repair spells, they can't be dispelled.

I kinda think the Headmen were related to the Watchweres (which were in the RQ3 Glorantha Bestiary) - chaotic humanoids with very small heads but could see through stuff. This suggests that the Headmen were liike Mekons (cf Mekon the Mighty an opponent of Dan Dare) and were also served by Footmen and Handmen. As for their origins, the suggestion of coins suggests they were originally humans (or dwarves). So Artmali, Vadeli or Mostali - take your pock...

I think the best model for the Pelorian basin flooding (if it does) would be the Zanclean Flood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanclean_flood). Since that took anywhere betwen 2 and 10,000 years, I don't think the Pelorian basin will be as inundated as the southern coast of genertela.

Iron Dwarf Death Magic The Iron Dwarves can manipulate death through their spells. Specifically they go to places where significant numbers have died and collect the presence of death. Using the spells, (Cut Death, Shape Death etc) they able to transport the presence and use it to create Dead Zones in which nothing lives. The Dead Zones have a POT which does poison damage. to whoever is in their vicinity. Only wearing iron armour from head to toe provides protection against the Dead Zones. Too strong a Dead Zone can overwhelm even those encased in iron armour and so there is a practical limit on the strength of the Dead Zones. The Iron Dwarves have Iron Staves which they use to transport their collected Death to the Dead Zones. These radiate death and sometimes the dwarves have held these staves in battle to kill their enemies. The tactic is generally considered ineffective as the iron absorbs most of the Death. Rarely one sees iron weapons with attached Death. Most dwarves find it easier to smear their weapons with poison instead.

The most obscure reference I found was Brekkek Kekkek Koax in the Darios Istos Isles (Argan Argar Atlas map 51). That's the Chorus in Aristophanes' the Frogs.

Maker Magic medicine. For healing the Mostali make use of healing potions rather than spells. In the case of severed limbs, they do not regenerate the limb due to its bad association with Growth. Instead replacement limbs from the stock of available body parts are attached using Join Limb. The match need not be perfect and it is not uncommon for tales to spring up about a dwarf with hand attached backwards or an arm with two elbows. Stabilize Flesh is the standard treatment the Tin Dwarves use in cases of severe medical trauma. It prevents the body from decomposing after dying even to the extent of halting the soul's passage to the underworld. If the patient dies as a result of whatever surgeries or medicines the Tin Dwarf is administering, then the spell will prevent decomposition until the body can be a) restarted with Animate Flesh or sent to the embalming vats to be preserved as a source of body parts.

It's debatable. But nobody's going to complain if you call their mounted warriors knights. There's really no difference between the Orlanthi and the Esvulari here. The type of people the Esvulari appoint to be Deputies (The actual term would have been Vicar which is too ecclesiastical or the Greek Exarch (Ex-Archos -> From the Archon) which exists in Glorantha) and Comes (Counts) would be what the Orlanthi elsewhere call tribal kings and chieftains. They might even think of themselves as such with the Malkioni titles being reserved for formal government usage.

JOIN MIND 1 point Ranged, Temporal, Active This spell is cast upon a person, Each point of strength allows it to affect one INT point. The minimum strength of the spell must equal the INT of the minds being joined. Each time the spell is cast, the user expends 1 POW in addition to the magic points cast. The minds must reside within the same brain cavity. As a result of the spell, the two minds become one. Comment: In addition to reversing the effects of a Cut Mind, the spell can also be used to graft foreign intelligences onto a host mind. The host must have some spare brain capacity available (usually through the combined effects of Cut mind and Cut Brain) and the new mind must become part of a host through a Join Brain spell. Often used to rehabilitate treated heretics using the brains of dead dwarves of proven reliability. The dwarves of Slon use this operation to graft treated dinosaur brains into the brains of prospective dinosaur commanders.

(Prompted by a couple of comments over on the Glorantha forum) ...So I asked Karantharanis his magic cost him so much. He explained that because the Machine had made the world as is for him to change it would be an alternation to the plan and so require approval. That prompted a number of questions, none of which he understood.... CUT MIND 1 point Ranged, Temporal, Active This spell is cast upon a person, Each point of strength allows it to affect one INT point. The minimum strength of the spell must be equal to the target's INT. Each time the spell is cast, the user expends 1 POW in addition to the magic points cast. Each melee round for the duration of the spell, the caster may make the target mind divide itself into two of whatever mental dimensions that caster desires. One half of the mind is always in control of the caster's body while the other is screaming alone in a dark prison. The target's INT is halved as a result of the spell. Any spells, knowledges or basic reflexes (breathing, toilet training etc) have a 50% chance of being known by the mind-half in control of the body. The caster often takes excess time to fine-tune the mind-halves to allow the controlling mind-half more and more basic functions at a rate of 1 skill, spell or knowledge per melee round. The effects of Cut Mind can be reversed by Join Mind or suitable healing magics. Comment: This spell is used to combat heresy. The Gold Dwarves have determined the parameters of heresy using the Measure Mind spells to such a degree that they know the basic cuts to isolate the heretical portions of a dwarf's mind depending on the particular heresy. Thus there is an Openhandist cut, a Octamonist cut and so forth. There is also a Slave Cut which Gold Dwarves use to turn non-dwarves into slaves who would willingly follow whatever suggestion the caster makes.

The Esvulari structure themselves according to the social norms that were established by the Middle Sea Empire (I'm inferring from p86 of History of the Heortling Peoples). They probably have a big book of how its done that Belintar initially used to organize the Holy Country. They have separate organisations for government, army, trade, sorcery and treasure. The Middle Sea Empire book distinguished between Religion and Sorcery but I don't think that's viable now. There's also a Navy but that would be mainly fishing since the Closing.

I think Dragon Magic can really be handled as a form of Rune Magic. There is mysticism involved but that should be properly understood as being the attainment of certain spiritual states (Created -> Beaked -> Tailed etc). A lot of the material about the dragonewts being unwilling to use Dragon Magic can be handled as negative rune points. Thus to call an effect requires the Dragonist to make a roll versus the relevant affinity with a success being 1 rune point being acquired and failure meaning the full rune point cost of the effect is acquired. These rune points can be reduced at Dragon worship ceremonies. Acquiring more than the CHA in rune points means the draconist is in spiritual disfavour and goes down a rank. Passions and attachments to the gods are treated as permanent rune points.* To say that Dragon Magic is mystical magic and more practical than we normally think about misunderstands what is meant by Mysticism. Mystical magic should properly be used only of magic that is used to strengthen the transcendent self. A ritual that a dragonewt does to improve its spiritual status would be an example of mystical magic; a draconic effect used to hurt others would not. Additionally the source of mystic magic does not come from the transcendent self but is based on everyday magic of spirit spells, rune spells and sorcery. Summoning elementals and exposing yourselves to their malign effects (Cold, Fear, Heat, Madness etc) would be an example of a mystical magic even though the sources of the elementals and the magics to summon them are wholly conventional. As to the precise relationship between the Draconist and the Dragon whose abilities it calls upon is obscure. Thoeries range from worship of the Elder Dragons to calling upon one's future self. Only the Dragonewts know for sure and they can't say. Except that rune magic could also be described as heroquest powers and learned in similar ways. The answer to Fire Breath has to do with Tanian of all people. But as to the shunning of elemental magics, I think it stems from the desire to avoid being entangled with the mundane world, which is not the case for magics based on the powers. I feel the statement is true only for Dragonewts that heed the Inhuman King and those elsewhere may have a different view. *This does raise the question of what spirit magic and sorcerous draconism would look like. But I've done too much rules speculation for now.

The 1 point POW cost actually comes from the spells in Gods of Glorantha.

My initial reaction was "We need to build a wall!" I think it's a sign of how porous the borders are. The Sartarites won't stop small groups of Praxians (not just Morokanth) crossing their lands for any effective policy would infringe on their right to steal other people's cows. It's only when you get to Esrolia or beyond Lunar Tarsh that the authorities can actually do something about it.

Perfect Stillness is described therein as There's a bit of an anacrhonism there in that Perfect Stillness was created by Enrono to repair the flaws of Stillness. In any event this is hardly the evidence of Kahar as being a really powerful mystic and more indicative of hishaving mastered courtly etiquette in Osdero's palace. His wife is Harantara. She is said to be Thruhin Da when she appears as a Dragon but she does not appear as a Dragon as the wife of Kahar. According to the Guide p153, Harantara is known as Thruhin Da by the Kralori and p79 taught them the Cult of Orca to combat the wicked Zabdamar (her own children). Clearly the relationship between them is far from clear. I really don't have much time for these types of asides. The topic isn't about the Waertagi and the Closing, it's about the Kralori Fleet and the Sea of Fog. This isn't adding much to the debate. Telling me that whaling is "basically fishing expedition" is verbiage that can be easily deleted. Nor is the nature of Scandinavian fishing really relevant here. It's rather clear to me that the Closing extended into the Sea of Fog as the quotations make plain.