metcalph

Yellow Bear is a demigod of Fronela and mentioned in the Guide p228. Goldtooth might be Jaldon Toothmaker because of his golden teeth. Twisted Horse could be Sheng Seleris. I think that's because in the original writeup in White Bear and Red Moon, her other children were the Unclean Races: the Walkers of Chaos, the Eaters of Life and the Unnatural Ones.

The motion rune was imprisoned to prevent Belintar's nature from changing. The Larnsti are Wind Lords (Sartar King of Heroes p126) who may or may not be affected by this within the boundaries of the Holy Country. As to the Bigger Question of what Belintar is doing, my opinion is that the actual body of Belintar is the local heroplane in the Holy Country. It is easier to access and more magical. Something similar was done in Orlanthland when they created the Proximate Holy Realm (History of the Heortling Peoples p83 and elsewhere and this later became a foundation for the EWF's magics). What distinguishes Belintar from the earlier efforts is that he is the Holy Realm and desires participation within him so that he becomes stronger. He admits all people (and in some cases compels them). Perhaps he was attempting to achieve a critical mass of awareness so that he becomes a Great God but was too cautious to gamble as the Red Goddess did.

I think there was a separate landing of the Artmali in north Pamaltela by Yeetai who founded Rew' Melod (RM p47). I interpret the fragmentary material on p49 as follows. The Artmali had some sort of civilization which included the Zaranistangi in Fonrit in the Flood era. Known landmarks include the Hard Rock (now the isle of Kanem Dar) and the Soft Heart (what is know the Inland Sea which I think was land-locked until the Closing Guide p553). Tishamto and Gendara don't rise until the middle Storm Age. The Artmali move against Tishamto. The Artmali go to war against Gendara/Genjara. This may have included the wars of the Zaranistangi against Bredjeg (RM p47). The Zaranistangi left and the Empire fell apart. The Artmali then have a conflict of some time with Oabil. Sor (Guide p572) on the isle of Kanem Dar was probably founded at this time. Other parts of Fonrit remained under Artmali control but they were unable to expel the Vadeli conquerors from Kanem Dar. The Vadeli have been here since the flood so this conflict will occur early in the middle Storm Age. Afati's conquest then begins. Afati is said to be from decadent Tishamto which is said to be after its conquest by Kungatu (RM p65). So this is some time after its founding. Now the key puzzle here is that Afati conquers the southern part of the Artmali Empire with the gloss that Southern means that it was south of the wall mountains. At first sight, the wall mountains refers to the Fense (Mari, Tarmo and Palarki). But that refers to Kungatu which can't be right (Kungatu just conquered Tishamto which in turn in conquering the northern portion of Kungatu?!?). Then it struck me. The Wall Mountains being referred to is the mountain range that runs from the Tarmo in the southwest to Kareeshtu in the northeast. Afati is hence conquering the region south of this mountain range being the Baruling Valley, Tarahorn and Laskal! Support for this comes from the name of Afati-Tal (Guide p568) a recent and deceased foe of the Pulajeg Empire. So the original Fonritans are Agimori from Tishamto who moved northwards in the middle Storm Age to avoid continued rule by Kungatu. This also resolves the vexed issue of Mondator being a name for Fonrit (Guide p561) yet is placed wouth of the Fense in the mythic maps (Guide p688). The God Learners knew the name and that it lay south of the mountains. But they got confused by the mountains being referred to and so put Mondator in the wrong place. The last section supposedly refers to the Oabil and the Genjeran remants ganging up on the Fonritans. Afati's people could be described as the New Artmali (in that they were forced to take up Artmali customs) but I think the usage odd. In any case it doesn't really matter as five wicked shamans/sorcerors/whatever killed Kendalamar to create Vovisibor. I'm assuming that one is Vadeli, one is Artmali, one is Genjeran, one is Afatite/proto-Fonritan/Tishamto and the last could be a yellow elf. Vovisibor wasn't really an invader as he came from Fonrit.

https://www.chaosium.com/revealed-mythologies-pdf/ It's in an unfinished form so may not be what you seek.

Revealed Mythologies (although it doesn't cover Umathela very well and it was a long time before I noticed that a large part of Pamaltelan mythology was actually a mythic struggle against Fonrit).

A word of advice. Avoid jargon like "advanced animist society". It doesn't tell us anything about what the Artmali were like (it's far from certain that they worshipped only spirits) and causes serious eye-glazing moments. Your theory of about the Artmali buildings could easily have been made without resorting to clunky Hero Wars jargon. That's the first recorded Doraddi contact with them, something slightly different. I'm not certain that it's wrong. The Artmali could have easily moved out and Tishamto moved in. Then many centuries later, Kungatu launches a war to restore Vendarahab. All this is taking place in the Storm Age which is over ten thousand years long. A RW parallel would be Justinian's wars of conquest in Italy and North Africa against the Vandals and the Ostrogoths. The Pamaltelan Great Darkness occurred in the Great Darkness. The many Pamaltelan battles against chaos (Jaranpur and Sporebore) occurred in the late Storm Age or the Lesser Darkness. You can refer to this as part of the Demon Period (as the Pamaltelans do) but to start calling it the southern Pamaltelan Great Darkness only confuses.

I divide the Artmali into three stages. 1) The early stage when they have just landed. 2) The classic stage in which they were united under the Jakaru the Indigo Conquerer 3) The late chaotic stage. I think the Artmali built from waterstone, transmuting water into rock. In the early stage, their buildings are quite simple in design with unadorned walls and so forth. Perhaps the Artmali had other senses by which they could appreciate things at the time. In the classic stage, their buildings come alive. There are huge statues, massive towers and the walls are adorned with petrogylphs that begin to resemble undeciphered writing. There are signs of external influences, the towers are probably based on the Vadeli towers of sorcery. The late phase is the worship of chaos. Very little survives from this time as the Firefall burned most of it. The Artmali ruins that survive were the long buried remnants of earlier stages that were uncovered (and partially razed) by the Firefall. But the spirits of the Firefall's victims still haunt these ruins seeking a return to life...

Boldhome fell pretty quickly. It was Whitewall that held out for some time.

Worship of Sheng Seleris.

Iron, I would have thought.

I think treating spell-learning as a cost-less activity is an error here. As far as I know most spirit magic spells are learned in worship ceremonies (based on the RQ3 model of one spell point every five years). To learn a spell outside worship is to do things out of season and that imposes a cost. The priest has to do special prayers and sacrifices to keep the gods happy and that is the cost of the spell. The spirits aren't in a box waiting to be picked up, they are on the otherside waiting to be called at the right time.

The Crusade no longer exists. There is the Thunder Mountain Jump (Guide p721) when he clung to the side of a Giant Ram to bypass the defences of Dorastor (Dorastor: Land of Doom p103) He slew Diamondonus He destroyed an army of Purple Men at the Ground Land. He also saved Kwaratch Kang's life at Inti Pardo where the Great Crocodile Man lives (these last three from the Gude p721)

p377 - the most surprising feature about the picture is that Alangellia was the last ruler in Ralios that I would have associated with Arkat. p384 - Irn is finally located. Was surprised to see it in Ralios when I had assumed from the mention of Elder Secrets that it was in Maniria. p385 - Tinaros has a pretty interesting religious setup. Argin Terror disdains all cults with equal disdain so that cults unwelcome in other cities have temples here. I wonder if that includes Chaotic cults?

p374 - the text sorts out a major confusion about Arkat. Namely his death at the hands of Palangio was not the same event as his confrontation at Kartolin.

The Metals of Acos, an essay in Elder Secrets Book of the Elder Secrets Boxed Set. Were it to be reprinted again, I daresay many of the extraneous details about Bertalor would be changed to fit in what is now know about him (for instance, he would be referred to as a King rather than a sorceror-prince etc)

The Guide has a list of the Nine Great Gods on p373. They are: Matches up well with Bertalor's names. The same names appear in the Glorantha Sourcebook in the Xeotam Dialogue. Flamal is a minor God according to the Guide and Eurmal may be known as Yomat, the Friend of Men.

That's nice but I intentionally didn't offer any evidence for such creatures but conjectured their existence as a simple gloranthan explanation for salt in glorantha. It works for me. It may work for others. I offered it solely in that spirit. I merely gave my opinion and can see no value in giving further detail merely to satisfy your tart demands, considering that you've already decried it as bollocks. The whole question has too little information to settle matters either way so it's not worth the bother of thrashing it out point-by-point or offering evidence which you won't accept.

There you go again, using real world science in a place where it doesn't belong. Chalk comes from a different type of microscopic creature obviously.

Salt is the bones of tiny sea creatures slain during the Gods War. It is analogous to metal being the bones of the earth. Magasta is important because his death magic helps the merfolk survive in the presence of death.

Merely forming a triaty would have been Big News in the first two centuries after the Dawn as there sign of the Theyalans making new tribes. The only other example are the Yoke Clan which is settling Dorastor and the Skanthi. Yet three clans decide to break with the social order that Heort left us and form a brand new tribe? Where's these people coming from? The tribe is specified as Theyalan which means Heortlings. Otherwise they would have been noted as Esrolians or Ditalings or whatever. And there's a big leap between the lightbringer missionaries as described as a whole tribe being created to propogate the lightbringer way. I don't think they went west to spread the good news but were in it for less ideal motives (land, fame, fortune etc). This and what follows smacks far too much of social engineering to my eyes to be at all a plausible account for the formation for the formation of the Vathmai.

I'm really not interested in parading one's knowledge of real world geology or chemistry. This is Glorantha. Simply stating that the heat is from vulcanism is boring. Simply stating that the salt is from mineral baths is also boring. The lack has three unusual features 1) heat 2) salt 3) dinosaurs. You should focus on mythic and supernatural explanations rather than RW scientific ones. Which would make velociraptors not dinosaurs in that they are neither big or hulking. Yet they have been in Glorantha as far back as Borderlands. I really don't buy your narrow definition considering that ichthyosaurs and plesiosaurs are as recognizably saurian as pterodactyls. Modern scientific classifications have no place in glorantha considering that it's all about the look and feel. The Vanekauan sea doesn't fit as all that is said about it is that there are troll fleets. The Dereledon is not that far from the Shan Shan considering that the map on p74 has Suvaria well to the west of where it actually is.

Except that Sir Ethilrist mentions the High Pools as a battle already fought while he was traversing the Mislari Mountains in a northwards direction (The actual text says to the Arrolian Properties but Greg was probably using an old map at the time)

The amount of salt produced by mineral springs isn't enough to make what should be a freshwater lake into a saltwater one (two big lakes exist in the North Island here, both are modestly heated yet are freshewater). Moreover volcanic activity is a boring explanation. This is glorantha. What definition of dinosaurs are you using? Or it could be a remnant of the Dareledon Sea (Book of Heortling Mythology p75)

The Esvulari are descended from the Ingareens of Jon Barat obviously (whether through the Gansafvuli or the Denavuli is interesting but not relevant to the matter at hand). What I find unusual about the Vathmai is that the tribe appears to have been created since the Dawn and are the only new Theyalan tribe known in that time. There is a big difference between the Esvulari (who are first mentioned 400 plus years after the Dawn) and the Vathmai who a described as a tribe just over 100 years afterwards. If the Vathmai were described as a clan or an Esrolian house *then* it wouldn't seem so strange. But they are described as a Theyalan tribe.

p372 - surprised that the Hot Lake is salty and contains dinosaurs.