metcalph

It's now available to every Ernaldan and Eirithan High Priestess. There was some indication that the nature of the Three Bean Circus had changed when they showed up alongside Genert in the Green Age in the Eleven Lights Book.

Also it's from Cults of Prax.

There are several schools of illumination. 1) Yelmic Illumination, which includes Nysaloran and Arkati. 2) Draconic consciousness. 3) God Learner wisdom. 4) Vithelan Enlightenment 5) The Cult of Silence. I really don't see acceptance and understanding of chaos as being necessary to Nysaloran Illumination. It wasn't in the Empire of Light which became chaotic only in response to the threat of Arkat. Insofar as I understand things, Nysalor was intent on eliminating the boundaries between Men and Gods (the dissolution of the Cosmic Compromise has happened in the Battle of Night and Day), while Arkat saw in this an attempt to restart the Gods War (cf the Arkati mural in HeroQuest Glorantha p207). The Lunars have made chaos integral to their philosophy in order to heighten their illumination (ie when experiencing the worst, the Lunars accept no substitutes). Argrath's Warlocks, which you mentioned, are not draconically illuminated. They are illuminated from a wide variety of sources which as mentioned in HeroQuest Glorantha p30 sidebar include Draconism, Trickster, God Learnerism, Lunars, Orlanthi, Esrolian and the Many Suns. They are actively syncretic in their use of wisdoms. They do not use chaos but then they have no need to use chaos.

Hmmm. The Sprul-pa would be better known as Tupla. I can guess as what what one or two others might be.

The forthcoming Bestiary and the Gamemaster's Pack will probably have the desired information.

Not really a correction, but there's a CHA limit on the number of Rune Points with a single cult that one can have (RQG p313), which was surprising to me. I won't say its an error because I don't know if the Gamemaster Book will have any say on the matter (ie Hero rules).

Picture taken by artist on Moonboat from 10,000 feet.

I had an issue with the method of communication with spirits: However looking it up on HeroQuest: Glorantha, the magical method seems to be reciprocal - aiding the spirits in return for their aiding you. The necessity of trance inducing states for communion with spirits has been de-emphasized. So it's possible (despite my earlier musings) for an ancestor worshipper to interact with his ancestors in an almost confucian manner and still have spirit magic. The only caveat is that such worship be dependent on the family rune and be led by a spirit-talker (as opposed to a shaman.

The best example of an civilized animist society is the Mayans so the answer is yes. The Kolati in King of Dragon Pass spring to mind as they were far more comfortable in handling silver coinage than the average clan. I'm less convinced by the responses that ancestor worshippers are spirit magicians. We already have an example of a civilized ancestor worshipper in the form of Duke Raus of Rone and he does not strike me as the type to indulge in ecstatic communion with his ancestors. He is more like a sacrificial type so to speak. King of Dragon Pass/Hero Wars/HeroQuest 1.0 did make some stab at addressing this.

Thnking on it further. Except that the Slontans didn't hold onto Esrolia. By the time of the switch, it was in EWF hands. The text of the Guide p237 says "In 849, the Goddess Switch in Slontos caused widespread famine in Esrolia." meaning (to my mind at least) that the switch took place in Slontos and the mythic side-effects had a terrible cost in Esrolia. As for the other land involved, I think I may have found an answer. From the mention of the famine, Slontos has to be the country that suffered from the lack of fruit. So where is the land of the Great Divorce? My thinking is Teshnos. Why? There is a remarkable dearth of goddesses there. The Glorantha Sourcebook says the following about Teshna In addition the Zanozar bas-relief (Guide to Glorantha) p428 shows nine deities but names only five of them! So IMO Teshnos suffered a mythic divorce to such an extent that even the Gods were affected. They have since coped with new myths but half their pantheon is missing.

The earliest mention of the Goddess Switch (which got ignored for quite some time because it was not actually called the Goddess Switch) Thus the God Learners were not looking to exchange land goddesses but to recreate the Goddess Glorantha. Hence I do not think land goddesses such as Esrola and Slonta were involved. The targets of the switch are more likely to be Ernalda. The suggestion that Dendara and Ernalda was exchanged comes from the Ernalda cult writeup in the RQ3 rules. That information hasn;'t been repeated elsewhere and since the writeup contains a number of statements that have been superseded (such as Pamalt being Ernalda's husband throughout Pamaltela), it's probably incorrect if Dendara referred to the Pelorian Goddess for the simple reason that the God Learners were active there. Speaking of which, there is the statement in the Entekosiad Which suggests to me that Greg is still thinking that Dendara was involved in the Goddess Switch. Greg when asked about this said that he meant to say it was the type of thing they ruthlessly exploited. So in my opinion, the switch was between a Solar Pantheon Goddess such as Dendara and a Storm Pantheon Goddess such as Ernalda. From the mention of the famine in the Guide, Esrolia was the one of the lands involved.. There are only two Solar Pantheon lands that lay within the Middle Sea Empire that I know of - Fonrit and Teshnos. Kralorela was independent and the nature of other lands within the empire or even the precise extent of the empire is unclear.

Look at the Wastelands section p440-459 (Book 2)

I think in terms of memories of centuries-old calamities, we should be looking at its effects of the calamity to decide to determine its impact. What did the event cause that still frightens people ? For the effects of long ago battles, that usually means some despised ethnic group is living next to you or ruling over you. For distant magical events, such as the Dragonkill, I note that the Clan Generation questionnaire in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, a clan only receives the Fear Dragon trait if they decide that Dragons are Evil out of a number of other responses.

The Fiscal Anarchists were actually in the Genertela Book (p28 - Rare Tripolis Events). The Secret Police are first mentioned in Troll Gods p6 while the Spoken Word, the Entalothosium and the Kastokus still survive in the current canon (Coming Storm has references to all three).

I should correct myself. There *is* a Brithini migration of 632 ST of which some of the migrants went south of Jrustela to unknown destinations (Middle Sea Empire p12, Revealed Mythologies p53 although it's dated a few years later). So they were around to be known to the Sedalpists.

There isn't much. Basically she's mentioned as Malkion's daughter and that's the sum of it (I was going to cite Revealed Mythologies but she is not mentioned there!). The Daughters of Menena are engaging in revisionist heroquesting with their interpretation of her.

The Sedappists have more than one caste which distinguishes them from being Brithini Talars. Likewise Menena is part of Malkioni mythology and not just the exclusive property of the Brithini. The strongest Brithini connection to Umathela would be that the Vadeli, their bitterest enemies, are there. So in order to be strong against the Vadeli, one tens to adopt Brithini values.

Only if there is a distinct class of hero that could objectively distinguished from the rank-and-file hero in some manner other than "able to kick the living crap out of them six times before breakfast". The attunement to the infinity rune that was mentioned in RQ2 has been replaced by illumination (and is a much better fit, I dare say). In White Bear and Red Moon, Superheroes essentially had the following powers: Invulnerability to chaotic, spirit and adverse exotic magic. Able to protect other units from hostile magics. Immunity to fighting in adverse terrain. Better heroic escapes. Best Friends. None of these powers requires the superhero to be qualitatively different from an ordinary hero. They are powers an ordinary hero could have yet the superhero is able to do them on the battlefield. Hence while Harrek and JarEel are still bigger and badder than everybody else, I do not see any need for a distinctive status to denote their status.

I was asking about a replacement term for superhero. Demigod fails because it means a number of things besides that.

HeroQuest Glorantha describes Illumination in this term and that seems likely to be carried over into RuneQuest Glorantha. Hence I do not believe Superherohood to be related to the Infinity Rune given that Argrath and the Red Emperor are illuminated but not superheroes. It is a category in ONE strategic board-game. Greg was referring to hero units in general, not just superheroes.

It doesn't work as a replacement for Superhero because the Guide describes the following non-superheroes as demigods: A Great Tree p65 The Luatha p139 Cragspider p170 Ironhoof p171 Gold Wheel Dancers p189 The Red Emperor (HQG p19)

Many terms have come and gone in glorantha (misapplied magic etc) and have not been missed. Superhero by my reckoning has been used in three or four texts 1) White Bear and Red Moon/Dragon Pass 2) RuneQuest 2 3) Arcane Lore and 4) the Redline History. White Bear and Red Moon was over forty years ago. Arcane Lore is a collection of documents some of which are quite old. It useful as an archeology of Greg's thinking throughout the ages more than anything else. The RuneQuest 2 rules mention is the Infinity Rune. It is described there as being "characteristic of gods, superheroes, and dragons only." (RQ2 p58). This text has been reused in HeroQuest Glorantha where it now reads "characteristic of gods, True Dragons, and those whose consciousness knows no limitations." (HQG p18). I daresay the description in the RQG will read the same. The Redline History mentions Yanafal Tarnils as a Superhero. The updated version in the Glorantha Sourcebook does not. As for people wanting to use the term superhero, I really have not seen a meaningful use for it nor have I seen anybody bothering to use it outside the question "Wot's a superhero?". Hence its usefulness is poor and that coupled with the wider associations of the term means that it will be one of the first things to go when Thanos snaps his fingers.

Superhero is an obsolete term that hasn't been used for quite a while.

But its not actually correct My original statement is still correct. There are better ways of voicing disagreement than labelling things wrong. According to what source? They are still descended from Gebkaren and unlike Humakt they cannot sever the connection. Except that the Eastern Islanders in order to identify certain gods as antigods give them fictitious descents from Gebkeran which they do for Pamalt, Genert and Malkion. It may be misleading to you but it is how the Eastern Islanders classify their gods. See for example Prosandara who is described as the Goddess of the Animals of Above (Revealed Mythologies p74). See also the glossary for the contrasts between Imad and Ferezed. You are not clarifying anything that which is misleading. You are saying certain statements are wrong in a line-by-line rebuttal which inflames rather than enlightens. I don't care if you have a different interpretation of the material, you could have just responded to the original poster and giving your own views of the nature of antigods and allowed him to choose. My response was correct and helpful. Your debating style is not. But the Eastern Islanders do view their ontology as being the same as their ancestry! That's why Gebkaren is the Mother of the Antigods. Given that I've specifically stated descent from Gebkaren who is female the last time I looked, I fail to see why patrimony (descent from a male ancestor) should be relevant here. Govmeranen's mother is Yothenara, one of the Parloth. In the very myth of Govmeranen's origins (Revealed Mythologies p75), she points out that Dogsalu's nature has been changed. Dogsalu is rewarded with the love of Yothenara (which had previously been denied him) and three days later Govmeranen is born. Govmeranen is descended from the Parloth and so is a Parloth himself. All methods of magic were known everywhere. It is part and parcel of being a gloranthan. There is no difference between the original and modern meaning of antigod as the Eastern Islanders themselves use it. Yes, the genealogy of some antigods would be patently absurd but it works for the Eastern Islanders and that is all that it matters for them. As for why I point out the origin of the definition rather than the modern shorthand (Gods that oppose mystical awareness), it is to sever the erroneous assumption that antogods are chaotic or heavily tainted with chaos. and why the Eastern Islanders tolerate the presence of antigods and andins.

Rather than going through other people's explanations and risk adding nothing, you would be better off responding to the original question. My statement "The Anti-Gods are what people outside the eastern isles consider to be the Gods of Night and Below." is still correct. Vith has two wives - Laraloori who is associated with day and Gebkeran who is associated with night. From Laraloori came the Gods/Parlothi and from Gebkeran came the Antigods. That's the original division - the rest is theological development through mythology and history. I feel the Noble Wrongs were not among the original antigods but people and gods of neighbouring lands to Vithalash who contested with Vith. They were confounded and their lands became part of the Eastern Isles and at the same time interpreted as other parts of Glorantha. Their identification as antigods is the first modification to the original definition of antigods. I do not feel it meaningful to speak of a non-mystic magical path at this point of time when the Eastern Isles own mythology makes it clear that mystical introspection only really began much later in the late Golden Age (the Sages Rivalry). It also embeds the outdated HeroWars terminology in a particularly inelegant manner within glorantha. A better way to look at it would be to consider Vithelan mythology as revealed in Revealed Mythologies as being the end product of their theological development from the original Early Golden Age understanding of Vith being the progenitor of the Gods of Night and Day. Martalak for example would not be the god of Orthodox Sorcery but more likely IMO to be the God of a culture that lived in the west parts of Vithela (or even Teleos) which was noted for sorcery, alchemy and charm-making. It is only much later that he becomes synonymous with the Malkioni. Similarly for Festanur and Ombardaru. Later when the Sages started developing the foundations of their mysticism, they projected the unbalanced forms of magic (magic that precludes contact with Vith or Oorduren) as being the magic of the Noble Wrongs even though many of these practices may have been used by the original followers of Vith.