Darius West

In my Glorantha I run Moonboats like this... The reason moonboats can fly is the same reason that the Red Moon was able to rise into the air, and has to do with Rufelza refuting gravity via a fusion of Illuminated mysticism and chaos sorcery (derived from the enigma of how the Crimson Bat can fly, and what the Bat's glow spot actually is), and taking a big lump of Glorantha with her, but fundamentally changing the nature of the lump of rock in the process. Now all the affected material has an affinity towards the moon, and has the potential to fly. This is a reverse of what Umath did. Umath broke the Sky Dome, but Rufelza broke the Earth. Obviously the Moon is contesting control of the Middle Air with the Storm gods etc. By way of engineering, a given weight of Moon Rock can lift 20 times its own weight, but structurally this will require a certain amount of reinforcing, as the rock will be comparatively small in comparison to the rest of the boat, and will have a lot of weight hanging on it. In terms of material science, it is like Egyptian pink granite. Moon rock can act as a "skyhook", that uses moonbeams to slide across the sky. Boats are used as the template for these craft due to their familiarity and the recent re-emergence of the Boat Planet. That being said, few of the boats are particularly large, being about the size of a small galley, based on the designs commonly used on the Oslir River. It is feasible that there are larger moonboats, and smaller one too, but there is a definite sense that the Lunar Empire has not equipped these vessels for war because they understand how vulnerable the design is. It is worth pointing out that there is a limited supply of moon rock to draw upon to build such craft too, and each piece of such rock is pretty sacred. Militarily, moonboats aren't used as bombers, as apart from dropped jugs of pitch and boulders (both of which are pretty heavy), the bronze age isn't big on technical munitions. They also make only fair arrow platforms. The real value of the moonboats is in combination with Lunar sorcerers, using combined magic and the resonance of the Moon Rock to provide a glow spot akin to the Crimson Bat. IN terms of the vulnerability of the craft, well, much depends on the moonstone, which needs to be pretty prominent in order to hang all that weight from it. There are any number of ways of crashing a moonboat. Even simply hacking at the supports with an axe will achieve it. Also the moon beams make the craft's trajectory predictable to an archer's eye. For this reason, the use of moonboats is for rapid transport, logistics and communications, and almost always deployed only well behind the front. This phenomenon also translates to smaller chunks of moon rock too. It is feasible for Lunar initiates who own a decent sized lump of moonrock to produce a harness that will allow them to fly as if they had access to the Orlanthi spell Fly/Telekinesis. This requires that they have a piece of moon rock that is at least 9 pounds, and should likely be of an order of 20 pounds to accommodate armor and reasonable speed. This is a cult secret magic item for the Red Moon Goddess.

Probably worth creating a separate thread to deal with this. The tradition is apparently modern (being the 4 winds of Pent), and thus likely a reaction to Sheng as you suggest. As to how it emerged and from where, well, Sheng conquered a lot of land and likely dragged plenty of slaves back to Pent. I suspect nobody is happy about the return of Sheng, ultimately not even Argrath.

I would point out that Shamans are likely to live on the outskirts of Orlanthi society because they don't want people stumbling into their spirit rituals and getting accidentally caught in spirit combat. Yes, the orlanthi will regard shamans as being weird, but they have their own shamanic traditions too. Importantly, as the Hero Wars heat up, the increasingly important role of the Sartar Magical Union will see shamans being more socially accepted among the Orlanthi as a matter of military and thus social necessity.

Don't shoot the messenger. I was drawing attention to just how unsavory this myth really is. This myth is effectively about the Gloranthan equivalent of date rape. I was simply calling it out for what it is. The fact is, generally such things have been censored out of the canon, yet here we have trickster molesting the otherwise extremely dangerous Barbeester Gor. I know Chaosium is trying to keep the setting away from such content, so what is this myth still around for? I also pointed out that it isn't in keeping with the lore in its present form, given that rape is always Chaos now.

As I recall you have scrunched up more unviable characters than most 😜 Agreed about the "discards" making their way in a hostile world though. The poor suckers who become stick pickers, mediocre artisans, dung gatherers, spear carriers, water drawers, haulers on ropes, seasonal labor, thralls, beggars, thatchers, and bean counters. The ranged weapon fodder of the Hero Wars when they get sent in as unwilling Fyrd levies, and the civilian casualties of the sacking of tulas.

I agree that it should be a spirit cult with shamans. Used with spell barrage, soulfire is a low caliber machinegun, and a good fit for the Hero Wars.

If we are dealing with wealth I need more information about the economic situation to provide the best answer I can. What are the city's primary exports? Are those exports primary or secondary industry? How many trade routes feed into it? How strong is the domestic economy as opposed to the cities around it, and its reliance on external resources? How heavy is the class divide within the city? The obvious answer is that the local wealth god is linked with the production of the primary export. If the city is trade heavy, acting as a "middle man" then spells for negotiating favorable terms become important, i.e. a spell that doubles your bargain skills within city limits. If the city has a habit of being over-run by enemies periodically, then maybe Asrelia is the best deity, given that she allows for the creation of magical caches. It could be that the primary export is agricultural, in which case, the cult will revolve around land ownership and crop management. On the other hand, you may want a deity that is less about wealth acquisition and more about conspicuous consumption. The notion being that if the city is a fun place to party, that more people will want to go there and spend their money.] As a rule of thumb, most city deities/spirits will not be overly strong, and will muster perhaps 1 cult specific rune spell, a couple of associated cult spells, and a few common rune spells, but not more than 12 spells in total as a rule of thumb. If you are dealing with Timnits, it is quite likely that their local deity is a Timnit hero founder who worked with the God Learners, and is quite possibly a sorcerer, who provides a unique sorcery spell to help with wealth. In Ancient Greece there was a secret society of merchants who swore an oath to cheat and defraud all non-members (just a thought). It is quite possible to create a merchant cult that is utterly unscrupulous and quite willing to deal with thieves and bandits, or which engages in predatory intrigue and intelligence gathering to maintain their commercial edge. The Japanese Imperial Family's central ritual is widely assumed to involve the success of the rice crop, but more in-depth anthropology reveals that the Yamato era rituals were actually for the success of the silk harvest. This is more of a mystery cult approach, and one that invokes a blessing rather than adding commercial acumen, or expertise. Asrelia is a hoarder, as is Argan Argar, and that has its place. Issaries, Lokarnos and Etyries are essentially teamsters who make their money through taking goods from point A to point B that they know wants those goods. Gustbran is a deity who offers technical expertise magic. Ernalda, Dendara and the Grain Goddesses provide agricultural magic. Pavis is primarily about maintaining Green Age peace and tolerance within city limits. The mindset of managing power through wealth should be a primary concern for the cult. The aim is to provide subordinates enough resources to keep them loyal, but not so much that they become a challenger. A good leader often rewards subordinates with things they want to get rid of, such as underperforming assets. Wealth can be used to dazzle, but it is often safer to be completely invisible (but where's the fun in that). While some wealth is about being miserly, the more successful model is to create a higher rate of local transactions, and become the spider in the middle of the web of those deals.

This seems like a double standard. The Unholy Trio get rapey and suddenly all rape is chaos. Trickster date rapes Barbeester Gor, and everyone is okay with it. The notion that Barbeester Gor was consenting is absurd. Clearly the hero cult involves rohypnol, and the ability to replace severed body parts, and given that the entire incident follows BBG's massacre of healers, the idea that the hero cult would involve soporifics and replacement of lost parts seems all the more likely, given the blood drinking and the inherent life runes involved in that.

I would answer your concern this way. The problem was about having a Great Temple of the Trickster. Too many tricksters in one place and too many shrines with too many different spells. Trickster isn't big on organized worship (or organized anything). Too many pranks spoiled the temple.... A LOT! As to individual tricksters using their powers for personal gain, isn't that the whole point? Trickster enjoys having a live in the moment, short term advantage view of life, without consideration of long term consequences, or tries to anticipate the negative consequences with further negative consequences. An illuminated trickster is liberated from many of the limits tricksters impose on themselves. Remember that every trickster is their own spirit of retribution.

According to the "scriptures", Elusu the little shit (Argrath's trickster) is an illuminate. Oddi the Keen (Dorastan Uroxi hero) is on record as having stayed up long into the night riddling with tricksters before becoming an illuminate the following Sacred Time. For the record others have travelled the path of the illuminated trickster before, even in canon. I suspect that illumination is probably more use to tricksters than almost anyone else. Tricksters, if independent, are constantly having to hide their allegiance, so that is nothing new when they illuminate, but tricksters more than any other cult are able to benefit from not being subject to spirits of retribution. Using their Lie spell, they can insinuate themselves into pretty much any cult they choose, and because they are illuminates, they no longer feel the compulsion to take reckless chances and liberties in their new position. Stack that with membership in a Lanbril outfit so they have access to Divination Block and they can become invisible heroes of intrigue, up until they emerge from the shadows as rulers. It's a hideously effective combination, and one that I would happily adopt as a God Learner back in 2nd Age due to it being such a terrifying exploit. As to what the tradition is like, well, arguably there are more trickster illuminates than any other cult in Orlanthi lands, save for among the Lunar invaders. After all, what is the harm in asking a few riddles? People love riddles, don't they? And tricksters are always up to something quasi-malicious.

More psychological projection given magical weight. You get the Arkat you ask for imo. If you fear Arkat, that is the Arkat you get. If you think Arkat is trolling, you get troll Arkat. 😉

I just read that entry. Lopers are puzzling. How do you make a saddle for a creature that has eyes all over its back? They seem to come from Pamaltela, so perhaps they arrived in Prax with the Agimori?

Let's talk about the Ostrich Tribe for a while. I believe there was an article about them in one of the editions of Heroes magazine back in the day. I don't know if that info remains current. Now, my understanding is that Ostriches are not Eiritha beasts, and the menfolk of the tribe follow their own version of Yelmalio rather than Waha, and they don't follow Eiritha either, but they are clearly an accepted "tribe" (there are only around 1000 of them, which would generally qualify them as a clan, not a true tribe). Now on the other hand, the Ostriches clearly haven't received the ruthless persecution and hatred than the Pure Horse people copped, and are in fact a part of the Two Legged Alliance. (For the record, the Two Legged Alliance is comprised of three tribes, the Ostrich Riders, the Bolo Lizard People, and a third tribe who is unnamed, but I will propose that it is the Morokanth). So, my question is this... What is the relationship between the Ostriches and the Eiritha hierarchy at the Paps? Is the Ostrich tribe seen as Praxian by adoption? How are they seen? All Praxian tribes are pretty hostile to one another, do they reserve any special hatred for the Ostrich riders, as they do for horse riders? Are the Ostrich tribe simply too small in number to be concerned about? What are people's thoughts?

You are quite correct. Noice!

Five projections of seven misapprehensions of Arkat, and each one is a Gbaji, sent to deceive and to test. Nysalor knew there was only one Arkat, but in the third age people project the Arkat that they want or fear as their Arkat, but there is still only one Arkat. He changes his methods, but he is still only one. These are but the echoes of people's needs and fears of what is to come in the Hero Wars.

So that means that beer is now gender fluid in Glorantha?

Bah! Written like some filthy illuminate. You say chaos isn't evil, but everything touched by it soon becomes evil. You say it can give rise to amazing beauty, but the chances of seeing such a thing are slim to none, and even if you do it will be some POW guzzling succubus. Now while a lion isn't evil for eating an antelope, a lion broo that rapes the antelope is pretty evil. Life takes life to renew itself, but chaos simply flings life into an endless screaming void. The gullet of the Crimson Bat is the true face of chaos, and I hope you chaos lovers all get fed to it and get properly "illuminated" about what chaos is really all about.😜

I'm definitely looking forwards to reading this.

I have to disagree MOB. Based on what the overwhelming anthropological studies on Bedouin hospitality suggests, travelers were generally treated to hospitality in the Classical Era model, including 3 days of protection (hence the 71 hour Ahmed joke by Pratchet courtesy of Akhorahil). The Bedu were not overly keen on using water as a weapon, even against members of enemy tribes passing through their territory on apparently peaceful purposes, and reserved withdrawing water only in times of warfare. Obviously if someone broke that hospitality code they were fair game for terrible retribution. This is not to suggest that there weren't some ways you could break hospitality that seem pretty arcane to outsiders. There was also the understanding of the reciprocal arrangement that a good guest would throw in their arms to defend their host, even if the guest's own tribe was attacking the host as well, but one wonders how often such things occurred irl. In truth they would most likely be rounded up as spies and then used as hostages, unless they made a ridiculously favorable impression on their hosts; let's face facts. It is seldom if ever that case that people do things for no reason. This is especially true of people who live in extreme environments where miscalculating one's logistics or the turn of local politics can lead to death. Just because the reasons for a people's actions are not apparent to the author, doesn't mean that they were acting without reason, but more likely that the author, as an outsider, had failed to understand the emerging situation. Comments like this one from Thesiger are amusingly patronizing, but likely actually belie an ignorance on the author's part. ----- I would suggest that the Bedu are certainly not above the military pragmatism of using water as a weapon, as the victories of Khalid ibn al-Walid against the Sassanids amply demonstrates, but that they are disinclined to do so (for reasons laid down in religious tradition). By comparison, I think the Praxians are a lot more aggressive and pragmatic that the Bedu. I think the Praxians actively use control of oases, rivers, and hidden wells as a means of limiting the range and activities of enemy tribes, and perpetually use water as a weapon, literally every day of their lives, often calculating their entire clan and tribal survival strategies around such control. I doubt the Praxians have hard rules about 3 days of hospitality, but may well extend hospitality to a guest well in excess of any limit if there is a good reason to do so, or leaders may cut hospitality abruptly, giving the former guest a certain head start if they are honorable, or simply binding them as slaves if they are not honorable. While impala riders of Prax are described as angry and excitable imsmc, other tribes are not.

I suspect that Praxian attitudes towards hospitality are quite different to those of Arabia and Mongolia, which are very forgiving. I suspect their hospitality customs are also less formalized than those of the Heortlands. Praxians are a seriously violent raider culture, where small groups of strangers represent a special threat, as if they are Praxians they will make off with a portion of your herd if they can. In Cults of Prax we see that Biturian Varosh effectively has to bribe local Khans with gifts in order to receive their protection while in their territory. The tribes probably have times when they are allied and will relax a bit in the presence of their allies, but most Praxian alliances tend to be brittle, based on their history of frequent betrayals. If meeting non-Praxians, there is probably some impetus to be seen to "gain honor" by offering them hospitality, if only because the outsiders are understood to be vulnerable in Prax and not seen as much of a threat. It is possible that such travelers also provide advantages such as news of the wider world, trade opportunities, or unique cult skills they might be hired to provide. Of course it is also perfectly reasonable to take these people as slaves before they come seeking hospitality. Praxians are likely to gear their hospitality to the reputation of the people they will host, in a very pragmatic fashion. The good news is that even slaves will be given water and shelter from the dust of the Bull Wind.

Most of the problems can be solved with strict discipline, and judicious use of Detect Chaos and Befuddle spells. Strict discipline so that fumbled detect chaos skill rolls are deferred up the chain of command, Detect chaos for perfect verification of actual chaos, and befuddle to insure that would-be berserkers who break the rules are all buffed up with nowhere to go.

I'll see you and raise you seven mothers.😜

Just another sad example of Heroquester on Heroquester violence. 😉

To clarify, I mean in RQ, not Disney. With caveats, given that they have a lot of differences, that's fair enough. Vis the nerfing of sorcery, I think that common spells (given that they rely on CHA) shouldn't affect Free INT. Apart from that, sorcery is a bit of an aside in RQ as you say. I suspect that there will be efforts made to properly place the Malkioni in Glorantha. They won't be like Conan the Barbarian sorcerers, who in many ways are more like Call of C'thulhu sorcerers.

Well, it is true that Orlanth stripped him of many things, including kinship relations, but I doubt that is the end of the story. I mean Gagarth rides around on a beaked horse with hellhounds, perhaps we should consider the possibility of adding Hippoi or one of the Griffin deities plus Narangros to the list? I also think that for someone called the Wild Hunter, Gagarth seems to lack much in the way of hunting abilities. I would add that many of the deities in question I listed aren't strong on kinship ties themselves, e.g. Lanbril, Black Fang and Trickster. I also think that potential ties to chaos, especially Malia, are likely, as the bad winds bring disease.