Young Dark Trolls and Trollkin

[Sumath]

I suspect this will be a YGWV answer, as I'm not aware of any images of immature dark trolls, but does anyone know if they look (facially) similar to mature trollkin? I'm sure they are stockier, and easily distinguishable from trollkin by other trolls, but not necessarily by humans.

The trollkin in the bestiary have flatter faces (rather like how young chimpanzees have much flatter faces than adults), and I'm thinking this is probably also true for young trolls, and that their elongated jaws develop as they mature. 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Sumath

[Sir_Godspeed]

Trollkin as neotenous trolls is a good observation.

[Sumath]

Neoteny would raise the potential for a young dark troll, somehow separated from their protectors (perhaps a troll caravan?), and discovered by humans who mistake it for a trollkin. I'm thinking of a similar scenario to the novel Gentleman of the Road by Michael Chabon, where a youth from foreign lands begs to be returned but lacks the language skills to explain their plight. Being the son/daughter of someone important would add the prospect of reward for their safe escort back to their tribe.

[soltakss]

Trollkin often have big eyes, but Troll children, as far as I know, don't.

Also, Trollkin tend to be misshapen and broken, in ways that Troll children aren't.

Mistaking a Troll child for a Trollkin is a sure-fire way of getting killed in Troll society.

[Sir_Godspeed]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Trollkin often have big eyes, but Troll children, as far as I know, don't.

Also, Trollkin tend to be misshapen and broken, in ways that Troll children aren't.

Mistaking a Troll child for a Trollkin is a sure-fire way of getting killed in Troll society.

Trolls almost certainly don't make that mistake, but non-trolls might.

Also, if I remember correctly, eyeballs stay the same size all through life, so a young dark troll probably does have disproportionally large eyes compared to an adult. Just throwing that out there if this is a place where realism is followed. Which it might not be, of course.

[Brootse]

Trolls are fat.

[Qizilbashwoman]

31 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Trolls are fat.

female trolls are because they give birth to LITTERS, which they then breastfeed, so females are fed top priority.

male trolls seem to be more ripped than fat.

enlo seem stupid, emaciated a lot, and that's likely because they are kept near starving as hunting pets or are barely surviving as feral children outrunning hunting packs. we don't really see what would happen if you took newborn enlo, raised them in an environment like a clan with sufficient foodstuffs and roles and initiations, and otherwise treated them like people. for all we know they're little different from darkness-rune humans! it's not like we'd have any way to tell, and certainly we know there are value-enlo even without any advantage or training whatsoever.

[Ian Absentia]

Technically, all twins born to Trolls are Trollkin, even if they're actually Uzko.  Because only Trollkin are born in litters...

Years back, a friend of mine and I played twin Great Troll brothers.  Biggest damned Trollkin you ever did see.

!i!

[Sir_Godspeed]

57 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

female trolls are because they give birth to LITTERS, which they then breastfeed, so females are fed top priority.

male trolls seem to be more ripped than fat.

I prefer to think of it as "musclegut". Lots of muscles, protected by a thick layer of subdermal fat, and maybe the capability of storing excess nutrients for a long time, much more efficiently than humans can.

Also, I'd like to think a troll's response to being called fat would be "Why thank you, I've worked very hard on it."

[Bill the barbarian]

2 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

Technically, all twins born to Trolls are Trollkin, even if they're actually Uzko.  Because only Trollkin are born in litters...

Years back, a friend of mine and I played twin Great Troll brothers.  Biggest damned Trollkin you ever did see.

 

Weren’t great trolls the result of an attempt at HQing a solution to the “Curse”? Too lazy to look it up at the moment.

 

2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Also, I'd like to think a troll's response to being called fat would be "Why thank you, I've worked very hard on it."

Homer Simpson's a troll!

<said in Bart Voice>
"Well, that would explain a lot!”.

[Ian Absentia]

19 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Weren’t great trolls the result of an attempt at HQing a solution to the “Curse”? Too lazy to look it up at the moment.

Yeah, that was Cragspider's attempt.  The multiple births were apparently the result of Naxili Garang's attempt to break it (Trollpak, Uz Lore).

To be clear, if any resulting twins are Mistress Race (in the unlikely event it should ever happen), they're recognised as such and accorded full Troll status, probably celebrated.  Twin Uzko and Uzdo get the fuzzy end of the lollipop, though, and are treated as Enlo by circumstance.  Superior Trollkin, though!

I can't stress enough how much fun it was to play the Gruntfartt Twins, Allecks and Oddo.  Big as houses, dumb as rocks, and good-naturedly violent in the extreme.

!i!

Edited October 4, 2019 by Ian Absentia

[Minion1stClass]

On 10/4/2019 at 10:56 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

enlo seem stupid, emaciated a lot, and that's likely because they are kept near starving as hunting pets or are barely surviving as feral children outrunning hunting packs. we don't really see what would happen if you took newborn enlo, raised them in an environment like a clan with sufficient foodstuffs and roles and initiations, and otherwise treated them like people. for all we know they're little different from darkness-rune humans! it's not like we'd have any way to tell, and certainly we know there are value-enlo even without any advantage or training whatsoever.

This is something very close to my Xiola Umbar's heart. And she's had much the same thought. In fact, after being sent out among humans and observing the ones she travels with closely, she now wonders what would happen if enlo were treated like other uz. DM mentioned heretical thoughts and now I want to pursue it even more. LOL But she is choosing to interpret words given her by a mistress race in her own way, as we all do, and has IDEAS now. Some of which she is going to be sharing to her mentor when she arrives back at the temple to become a rune lord. 'Ware the troll told to find new steps right before sending her out to hang out with Orlanthi and especially Ernaldans.  

[Qizilbashwoman]

1 minute ago, Minion1stClass said:

This is something very close to my Xiola Umbar's heart. And she's had much the same thought. In fact, after being sent out among humans and observing the ones she travels with closely, she now wonders what would happen if enlo were treated like other uz. DM mentioned heretical thoughts and now I want to pursue it even more. LOL But she is choosing to interpret words given her by a mistress race in her own way, as we all do, and has IDEAS now. Some of which she is going to be sharing to her mentor when she arrives back at the temple to become a rune lord. 'Ware the troll told to find new steps right before sending her out to hang out with Orlanthi and especially Ernaldans.  

well I also am the kind of gamer who likes to use prompts like

"GOBLINS HAVE MOVED NEAR THE TOWN! the townsfolk are worried their water source is polluted by mining runoff and about the wargs that come during winter and are asking you to help the goblins build a proper filtration system and set up defenses to protect their settlements! They are sending an engineer, a priest, and a trader to establish good relations! Maybe they can offer fish, grain and beer for fine quarried stone!"

rather than "the villagers want you to kill the goblins!"

[AndreJarosch]

On 10/4/2019 at 5:19 PM, Brootse said:

Trolls are fat.

Uz are BIG, not fat (even if some of their mass is a layer of fat)!
Think Wrestlers or Strong Man competitors, rather than sumo ringers. 

[Akhôrahil]

On 10/3/2019 at 10:31 PM, soltakss said:

Trollkin often have big eyes, but Troll children, as far as I know, don't.

Also, Trollkin tend to be misshapen and broken, in ways that Troll children aren't.

Mistaking a Troll child for a Trollkin is a sure-fire way of getting killed in Troll society.

On the other hand, it’s canonical that the rare Dark Troll twins are frequently mistaken for trollkin, correct? So it doesn’t seem like an exact science.

[Ian Absentia]

19 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

On the other hand, it’s canonical that the rare Dark Troll twins are frequently mistaken for trollkin, correct? So it doesn’t seem like an exact science.

It's not a matter of science so much as a matter of dogma after 612 ST.

!i!

[Qizilbashwoman]

10 hours ago, Ian Absentia said:

It's not a matter of science so much as a matter of dogma after 612 ST.

Troll society says: "if you birth twins, they are enlo. except if they are Mistress Race, when they are a miracle."

Outsiders who understand trolls at all beyond "they are all krjalki!" find this confusing, because enlo look only vaguely similar to other kinds of trolls. The first rule is usually "the small weird ones are called enlo, or trollkin, and are slaves. Or food. Or both. And they don't really count as trolls."

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

On the other hand, it’s canonical that the rare Dark Troll twins are frequently mistaken for trollkin, correct? So it doesn’t seem like an exact science.

They are actually trollkin, by the multiple birth definition of trollkin. However, they should be able to go through the Rebirth Ritual, to become full trolls, fairly easily.

[Sheliak]

Given that Dark Troll offspring are so prized, I have to wonder if some troll mothers fudge things a little when it comes to twins.  

"Twins? Oh no, my sister and I just had our (clearly uzko, and I will eat you if you say otherwise) children at the same time. So lucky! Clearly Kyger Litor favors our family."