Snowstorms and their runes?

[Qizilbashwoman]

This might be a quick question, but ... what runes do we associate with snowstorms?

I know that Storm is a rune, but Heler the Rainstorm is Water. Storm is largely wind and thunder, not the rain.

Are snowstorm deities Darkness and Water?

[g33k]

22 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

This might be a quick question, but ... what runes do we associate with snowstorms?

I know that Storm is a rune, but Heler the Rainstorm is Water. Storm is largely wind and thunder, not the rain.

Are snowstorm deities Darkness and Water?

I think anything "storm" (the phenomenon) probably needs SOME sort of affiliation with Air or Storm (the rune).

Ygg, Valind...I don't recall, what Runes does the White Princess have in Prax?  She's the most explicitly-snowy deity I recall.

Edited March 15, 2020 by g33k

[Richard S.]

37 minutes ago, g33k said:

Ygg, Valind...I don't recall, what Runes does the White Princess have in Prax?  She's the most explicitly-snowy deity I recall.

If you're thinking of Inora, I believe she was Air and Stasis last I checked.

[soltakss]

There used to be an Ice Rune, owned by Valind, but I am not sure if that is used any more.

A snowstorm should probably have Air/Storm and Cold.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

There used to be an Ice Rune, owned by Valind, but I am not sure if that is used any more.

A snowstorm should probably have Air/Storm and Cold.

The Ice rune in Cults of Terror was later regarded as a wrong precedence that should be forgotten. The (single) element sub-runes of Light, Heat, Shadow and Cold however make sense, and I suggested something similar for Heler's vs. Nelat's waters. With Earth, we only get Dark Earth, unless you make use of some of the Ernalda rune variations in Thunder Rebels. For Storm, no such tripartite sub-runes have been on my horizon yet.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Wouldn't Cold and Storm make sense?

[Mirza]

"Another combatant there was Inora, also called the White Princess or Snow Goddess." -Glorantha Sourcebook, Page 115

"Inora, Goddess of Snow
When mountains extend their cold to the lowlands,
Inora, White Princess, dances among us.
When summer arrives, sends snow from the valleys,
Inora, Snow Queen, reigns still on the peaks." -Heroquest Voices, page 27

"With Himile, the God of Cold, she (Kero Fin) gave birth to Inora, the White Princess." -Smoking Ruins, Page 5

Yeah looks like Inora is more than just goddess of snowy mountaintops, and is the Snow Goddess for all snows (At least to the Heortlings/Theyalans as far north as Vanch). I haven't been able to get any identification of her runes so I can't corroborate Richards runes of Air and Stasis, which is slightly odd as she's the child of Himile, not a storm deity. But then again Yinkin has an Air Rune in RQG, and he's only Orlanth's half-brother by Kero Fin, same as Inora, though HQG says it's Mobility and Beast, and SKoH just gives him the Yinkin Rune.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Wouldn't Cold and Storm make sense?

That is Valind, who is the God of Winter.

Inora is Cold and Stasis - the cold snow that stays on the mountaintops.

[Sir_Godspeed]

13 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

That is Valind, who is the God of Winter.

Inora is Cold and Stasis - the cold snow that stays on the mountaintops.

So... Cold, Storm, and Motion? 

We can basically rule out Water, since if Inora doesn't need water to literally be solid water hunkering down on a big ol' mountaintop, snowstorms won't need water either, imho - even though that doesn't make a whole lot of RW sense. It apparently makes sense in Glorantha.

[Qizilbashwoman]

20 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

So... Cold, Storm, and Motion? 

We can basically rule out Water, since if Inora doesn't need water to literally be solid water hunkering down on a big ol' mountaintop, snowstorms won't need water either, imho - even though that doesn't make a whole lot of RW sense. It apparently makes sense in Glorantha.

i think it depends on the storm. Heler has a water rune as do the cloud sheep; if there's a cold version thereof it'd be Water and Darkness. Storm is not the rain, it's the thunder and lightning, the mythical Storm.

A flattening snowstorm without the howling gales wouldn't necessarily be Storm.

Inora in RQ would be Darkness and Stasis.

[jajagappa]

31 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

So... Cold, Storm, and Motion? 

Vallind? No, just Cold and Storm.  And if that's all he needs, it's all a snowstorm needs.

 

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

19 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Vallind? No, just Cold and Storm.  And if that's all he needs, it's all a snowstorm needs.

 

Well, then I was right all along! Gosh darn diddly dingedingdong! 

26 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

i think it depends on the storm. Heler has a water rune as do the cloud sheep; if there's a cold version thereof it'd be Water and Darkness. Storm is not the rain, it's the thunder and lightning, the mythical Storm.

 

Well, I suppose it's primarily the Wind, but otherwise I getcha.

[soltakss]

10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Inora is Cold and Stasis - the cold snow that stays on the mountaintops.

Cold and Stasis is fine for the blanket of snow left after a snowstorm, but for the storm itself Cold and Air/storm makes sense.

[g33k]

22 hours ago, soltakss said:

Cold and Stasis is fine for the blanket of snow left after a snowstorm, but for the storm itself Cold and Air/storm makes sense.

Not to mention the thing where Prax/etc mostly experience Inora from when she's NOT Stasis-ing on her mountain-tops!  Does she have some twin sister, or maybe a transformation myth?  Or ... ?

[Tindalos]

On 3/15/2020 at 9:46 PM, Mirza said:

Yeah looks like Inora is more than just goddess of snowy mountaintops, and is the Snow Goddess for all snows (At least to the Heortlings/Theyalans as far north as Vanch).

It's also likely there's another major centre of worship for her even further north. Her sacred Mountain (known either as Inora or the Maiden) is in the Rockwoods between Ralios and Fronela, and Arnmorn (eastern Jonatela) and maybe even northern Lankst would share a connection to it.

 

5 hours ago, g33k said:

Not to mention the thing where Prax/etc mostly experience Inora from when she's NOT Stasis-ing on her mountain-tops!  Does she have some twin sister, or maybe a transformation myth?  Or ... ?

Well it's a very interesting case, especially as the White Princess of Prax is more of a fertility goddess, bringing life to the Chapparal. (NG 47)

If it wasn't for their different seasons and such, I'd say she seems more like Voria than Inora.

[Jeff]

Air and Cold. 

[Akhôrahil]

Ygg is the Winter Wind, so he might be the most specific deity.

Doesn't Inora have Light? Picked up from Yelmalio in some way, and the reason the mountaintops sparkle?

[Qizilbashwoman]

7 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Ygg is the Winter Wind, so he might be the most specific deity.

Doesn't Inora have Light? Picked up from Yelmalio in some way, and the reason the mountaintops sparkle?

Inora is Cold, a subset of Darkness.

[Akhôrahil]

9 hours ago, Tindalos said:

It's also likely there's another major centre of worship for her even further north. Her sacred Mountain (known either as Inora or the Maiden) is in the Rockwoods between Ralios and Fronela, and Arnmorn (eastern Jonatela) and maybe even northern Lankst would share a connection to it.

100% chance you can find her on the top of the Hill of Gold as well.

[Qizilbashwoman]

22 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

100% chance you can find her on the top of the Hill of Gold as well.

who is she with and who is the Solar villain

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

who is she with and who is the Solar villain

http://www.soltakss.com/hog4.html#Full

[jajagappa]

6 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

who is she with and who is the Solar villain

The Hill of Gold quest has four rivals:  Orlanth, Zorak Zoran, Inora, and Yelmalio.  It's central to Yelmalio, so you can think of him as the "Solar villain" from Inora's perspective.  He spurns her, so she freezes him in the ice.  Actually turns out to be a good thing as he's able to survive the Chaos parasites and is alive to greet the Dawn (i.e. Yelmalio is one of the deities that does not die). 

Each quester has fights/encounters/stations with each of the other rivals.  The familiar sequence is that of Yelmalio:  defeated by Orlanth; ambushed by Zorak Zoran (losing fire); and then frozen by Inora.  But you can work out the sequences of the others, e.g. Inora is:  encounter with Zorak Zoran; encounter with Orlanth; encounter with Yelmalio. 

[Qizilbashwoman]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Hill of Gold quest has four rivals:  Orlanth, Zorak Zoran, Inora, and Yelmalio.  It's central to Yelmalio, so you can think of him as the "Solar villain" from Inora's perspective.  He spurns her, so she freezes him in the ice.  Actually turns out to be a good thing as he's able to survive the Chaos parasites and is alive to greet the Dawn (i.e. Yelmalio is one of the deities that does not die). 

Each quester has fights/encounters/stations with each of the other rivals.  The familiar sequence is that of Yelmalio:  defeated by Orlanth; ambushed by Zorak Zoran (losing fire); and then frozen by Inora.  But you can work out the sequences of the others, e.g. Inora is:  encounter with Zorak Zoran; encounter with Orlanth; encounter with Yelmalio. 

oh i didn't realise she was from the most famous one. "Hill of Gold" is kind of a mytheme, I didn't realise you guys meant literally the Yelmalion one

[jajagappa]

4 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

oh i didn't realise she was from the most famous one.

🙂 Yep! She's from that famous, "Yelmalion" myth!

I always felt she got the short end of the story though. Everyone thinks of her as the Ice Princess (which of course she is), but Yelmalio had the chance to melt her heart, and failed, but ultimately proved his loyalty.... Perhaps they were even the Three Suitors of the Ice Princess, and the Hill of Gold has a whole other dimension we haven't paid attention to.

[jajagappa]

11 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

"Hill of Gold" is kind of a mytheme

Btw, here's some of the relevant Inora bits out of Arcane Lore p.73+

Quote

 

For Participants:  Inora: Any friendly darkness, water, or air cultist (the 3 components of winter). They can easily lose their Dark powers, as Inora did.

First Day: The Journey
The first day pits Yelmalio against Orlanth and Inora against Zorak Zoran. Yelmalio lost much power here, for Orlanth wrested the Lightning Spear from him. Inora lost her Darkness ties but remained independent, while Zorak Zoran lost his Cold powers but gained Inora's troll worshippers for his own.

Zorak Zoran vs. Inora
May fight as above, or optionally, if both sides agree (they usually do), they may trade gifts instead. This is done by each side donating and receiving either a skill or magic. The skill or spell is lost by the donator, and gained by the recipient. They are allowed to bargain.

Second Day: The Base of the Hill
The second day pits Yelmalio against Zorak Zoran and Inora against Orlanth. Yelmalio lost all of his Fire and Heat, as is well-known. Inora traded with Orlanth, gaining the Mountain Winds as her cult avengers in return for giving up the right to prevent winds from playing in her mountains.

Orlanth meets Inora
This is the same as between Zorak Zoran vs. Inora, except Orlanth is allowed to trade instead of fight if both agree.

Third Day: The Ascent
The third day pits Zorak Zoran against Orlanth and Yelmalio against Inora. Yelmalio and Inora each defeated the other: Yelmalio gained the right to cast light upon the mountain peaks (and
so they catch the light first and release it last), while Inora was able to resist the Sun (and thus her mountains remain covered with snow all year).

Yelmalio vs. Inora
Inora and Yelmalio fight, or can trade if both sides agree.

Fourth Day: The Summit

The victor may now climb the Hill of Gold. For this purpose, he is returned to the Physical Plane. His group may spend as many days as desired on the Hill, to a maximum of one week, except Yelmalio, who has no restriction. On each day there is a small chance for each member of the party that they will find a magic crystal.... each day the party must battle a parasite group [i.e. Chaos].

 

There's also an alternate bit re: Inora vs. Yelmalio

Quote

5. Inora: The Test of Loyalty
After Zorak Zoran, the Yelmalion is met by Inora, the Ice Queen. She offers to give Yelmalio the powers of ice and cold to replace his lost Fire. If Yelmalio succumbs, all his Sky fame is replaced by Cold fame. If he resists, she demands that he join her or stay forever crippled she will brook no rivals. The Yelmalion's loyalty is now tested. If he fails, he becomes a lesser snow god in Inora's entourage and that's the end of him. If he succeeds, Inora lays a blanket of ice over him, which he must resist as best he can.