Adapting Hero Quest / Hero Wars scenarios to RuneQuest: yay or nay?

[smiorgan]

I was looking at my copy of Barbarian Adventures for the original Hero Wars rules. The idea of adapting some of the scenarios to RQ is very appealing. They do have a different flavor and style than typical RQ scenarios: some of them are story-like and sketchy, but maybe a more free-flowing narrative can be a welcome change of pace and instigate  better role-playing.

I'm thinking in particular of Hero Wars/ early Hero Quest scenarios. Later Hero Quest 2nd edition scenarios may be different. I don't know.

So, is it worth adapting Hero quest materials? How would you do it? Filling in the details? Or leaving things very free-form?

How would you manage non-combat contests? A mix of unopposed characteristic, skill, passion and rune rolls? Opposed rolls? Yes, but opposed to what?

Of course, you could import the Revolution d100 mechanics for contests  ( @RosenMcStern ). But I'm interested in your ideas on how to do it within the RQG rules.

  

 

     

[Akhôrahil]

Just stat things up and convert non-combat challenges, and then run it like any other RQG scenario. It's a decent amount of work, but quite doable.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, smiorgan said:

I'm thinking in particular of Hero Wars/ early Hero Quest scenarios. Later Hero Quest 2nd edition scenarios may be different.

Yes, of course they can be adapted to RQG including HQ2/HQG.  

3 hours ago, smiorgan said:

So, is it worth adapting Hero quest materials? How would you do it? Filling in the details? Or leaving things very free-form?

If you like the scenario, yes. Or like pieces of it, yes.

They are all just scenarios and provide fully workable stories.  You will have NPC's or situations you need to establish stats for, but much can be left as rather freeform.

Is there a Difficulty test?  Then is that an encounter with a person, or a situation? If a person, then they have some skill you can use Opposed rolls with (e.g. translate to some Communication or Knowledge or Magic skill). If a situation, then set a difficulty as a % and use Opposed rolls (e.g. climbing a steep incline). 

(Doesn't require using that of course - you can play it out more; but it's one option.)

4 hours ago, smiorgan said:

How would you manage non-combat contests? A mix of unopposed characteristic, skill, passion and rune rolls?

Yes when its largely internal to a character.

4 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Opposed rolls? Yes, but opposed to what?

Yes when its more external (which is easily handled now in RQG). Use an opponent's skill, or gauge the difficulty of the challenge.  Roughly you can figure that a test of Moderate difficulty will be somewhere around the same level as the character's skill. Hard difficulty might be 25-30% higher.  Very hard probably 50% higher, and likely over 100% so bumps down character's skill. Nearly Impossible should be double the character's skill or more, and always over 100%.

 

[soltakss]

All the Barbarian Adventures work as RQ scenarios as well as they did in HQ.

I used them in my last RQ Gloranthan campaign and they worked really well. I messed about with a few of them, for example the Sky Ship was instigated by the PCs and was a more active scenario than the "sitting around watching things" vibe as written. 

I use the plotlines for each scenario and adapt NPCs as needed. as my campaigns tend to be at a higher level than most RQ scenarios, I sometimes adapt NPCs anyway.

To make them fit in the Campaign, I used elements from each scenario and planned on how/where I could use them. Some of the external plots involved some scenarios and some were stand-alone.

[smiorgan]

37 minutes ago, soltakss said:

All the Barbarian Adventures work as RQ scenarios as well as they did in HQ.

Good to know they worked for you. I want to insert some in my planned Sartar campaign.

[David Scott]

On 4/11/2020 at 3:45 PM, smiorgan said:

So, is it worth adapting Hero quest materials?

Yes

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How would you do it?

I'd make sure I carefully read the scenario and note where HeroQuest abstractions clash with RQG (skills, characteristics, abilities needed, etc)

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Filling in the details? Or leaving things very free-form?

Major NPCs need attention, I use my RQG NPC cheat sheet. 

RQ NPC cheat sheet.pdf

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How would you manage non-combat contests?

As you would in RQG and roleplaying

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A mix of unopposed characteristic, skill, passion and rune rolls? Opposed rolls?

Yes

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Yes, but opposed to what?

The relevant items you'd already noted when you read through.

I also put this up, Hero Wars scenarios will follow at some point:

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/issaries/issaries-heroquest-1-products-2003-20xx/heroquest-1-archive/

Edited July 8, 2022 by David Scott

[Akhôrahil]

Converting HQ to RQ is a completely different kind of beast than RQ to HQ. With RQ to HQ, the rules bits are trivial, but many RQ adventures aren't designed in a way that would pay off in HQ. Meanwhile, any HQ scenario fits RQ well, except that you need to do a lot of rules write-up.

[soltakss]

3 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Good to know they worked for you. I want to insert some in my planned Sartar campaign.

Looking at the Barbarian Adventures,  many of the scenarios are really scenario hooks and need NPCs. i would reuse NPcs, so one Lunar Patrol is the same as another.

 

Wealth Failure: Lots of roleplaying potential here, just slot these in as things that happen 

Craft Rivals: This might be a possible scenario, perhaps sent on a mission

Gored, Morale Crisis, Threats, Magic Failure, Ambushes, Rebellion and A healer's campaign : All of these might work well as random events

Stolen Kisses: This comes across as a roleplaying scene, perhaps to talk the cousin out of what he wants to do, or to try and get 25 cows. However, it could easily turn into a HeroQuest, where the PCs help the cousin to steal the woman away from her clan and carry her off.

Sheepless Nights: There is a scenario writeup for this, I think, in Ye Book of Tentacles 4. It would make a good one-session scenario.

Food Thief: Another one-session scenario

Hurry, Go Get Them: Works well in RQG, as a combat scenario

Dry Spell: An investigation, might work well with farmers

Riding Patrol: Can be used as a way to get into a Scenario

The Rebellion: This can be a series of random events or can be used as a background theme

Cattle Raiding: This kind of scenario can be slotted in whenever required, either with PCs as Raiders or being raided

A Year of Chaos: this has a number of events that happen and the adventurers can link them together, this is a standard scenario that would work with RQ

Blood Feud: Another long scenario over a period of time, with several events happening that can be linked together as a theme

These Women Need Help: This is more of a classic scenario, with linked events happening soon after each other. It should work as a RQ scenario.

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Good to know they worked for you. I want to insert some in my planned Sartar campaign.

For Sartar Rising 2: Orlanth is Dead, the emphasis is very different, on the Clan and on the Heroes, this makes it less satisfying in some ways.

Sartar Rising 3: Gathering Thunder goes back to having several scenarios.

Sartar Rising 2: Orlanth is Dead:

Lunar Units shows a number of units that can be used as foes. It describes magical keywords for each unit, but you need to convert them into RQG spells. I have done a lot of work on my website, but so have other people, there was a file loaded on BRP Central recently that converted Hero Wars cults into RQG format.

Rebel Leaders lists the leaders of the rebellion, presumably for PCs to interact with.

Orlanth is Dead shows a single epic scenario, this works in RQG.

 

Sartar Rising 3: Gathering Thunder:

The New Breathers: A standalone scenario that works well.

Getting a Guardian: RQG has Wyters, which work the same way as a Guardian in Hero Wars/HeroQuest. This would work to unite a Party and give them a Wyter.

Sheep, Clouds, Thunder: This is a cattle-raiding scenario that would work with RQG.

The Other Side of the Dragon: This is an interesting scenario, as it is partly diplomatic. Again, it works with RQG.

Final Days at Skullpoint: Another interesting scenario, this seems railroaded at the end of the previous scenario, but could be used as a one-off scenario.

Orane's Spindle: this scenario involves fighting Undead and has a HeroQuest, so could be used with RQG as a linked scenario or as a one-off.

The Sky Ship: This is more problematic. On the one hand it is an epic scenario covering an important event in Glorantha, but on the other hand all the PCs do is sit around and watch other people do things. In some ways it is similar to The Cradle, in that the PCs are on something big and important and must stop those intent on stopping or capturing it. What I did, in my last Gloranthan Campaign, was to link this in to the River Voices and get them to be the instigators. so, instead of being asked to go on a mission, they searched for a Golden Barge and HeroQuested to find it in Hell, they found it embedded int a gigantic Dragonship, ten miles long. so, they repaired it, released the spirit of an Inhuman King to power it, released Dormal to steer it and so on. They managed to get it going and then we did The Sky ship Scenario as the culmination to a year-long arc. Same with the Cradle, the PCs befriended the Giants, found out that their Cradles had been stopped, guided a Dead Cradle to Hell, then helped the Giants to bring forth a new baby and guided the Cradle downstream to become The Cradle scenario. rather than being bystanders or participants under someone else's control, they took control of the whole thing.

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by soltakss

[soltakss]

4 hours ago, smiorgan said:

Good to know they worked for you. I want to insert some in my planned Sartar campaign.

So, how would I use them if I ran a similar campaign to my last one?

I would thematically link the scenarios together.

So, there are Clan-based scenarios, Rebellion Scenarios and one-off scenarios. I would link the  scenarios together in a rough and ready plot, so that I would expect to do a series of scenarios in order. I would then take the long-running scenarios and insert different events from those scenarios into the rough plotline. I would have random events every so often and use those as scenarios lasting a session.The actual way this would work depends entirely on what the PCs do, as their actions in the earlier scenarios have an effect on what happens in the later scenarios. if i thought that a certain scenario would be perfect for what is happening now, I'd drop it in out of sequence. Similarly, if one scenario just doesn't fit, I might drop it or move it to a different place in the queue.

What this doesn't mean is the PCs do this scenario, then that one, then that one, rigidly in the order of scenarios in the campaign. Instead, the scenarios are things that happen if they don't know what to do next.

 

[smiorgan]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

For Sartar Rising 2: Orlanth is Dead, the emphasis is very different, on the Clan and on the Heroes, this makes it less satisfying in some ways.

Sartar Rising 3: Gathering Thunder goes back to having several scenarios.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Sartar Rising 2: Orlanth is Dead:

Lunar Units shows a number of units that can be used as foes. It describes magical keywords for each unit, but you need to convert them into RQG spells. I have done a lot of work on my website, but so have other people, there was a file loaded on BRP Central recently that converted Hero Wars cults into RQG format.

Rebel Leaders lists the leaders of the rebellion, presumably for PCs to interact with.

Orlanth is Dead shows a single epic scenario, this works in RQG.

 

Sartar Rising 3: Gathering Thunder:

The New Breathers: A standalone scenario that works well.

Getting a Guardian: RQG has Wyters, which work the same way as a Guardian in Hero Wars/HeroQuest. This would work to unite a Party and give them a Wyter.

Sheep, Clouds, Thunder: This is a cattle-raiding scenario that would work with RQG.

The Other Side of the Dragon: This is an interesting scenario, as it is partly diplomatic. Again, it works with RQG.

Final Days at Skullpoint: Another interesting scenario, this seems railroaded at the end of the previous scenario, but could be used as a one-off scenario.

Orane's Spindle: this scenario involves fighting Undead and has a HeroQuest, so could be used with RQG as a linked scenario or as a one-off.

The Sky Ship: This is more problematic. On the one hand it is an epic scenario covering an important event in Glorantha, but on the other hand all the PCs do is sit around and watch other people do things. In some ways it is similar to The Cradle, in that the PCs are on something big and important and must stop those intent on stopping or capturing it. What I did, in my last Gloranthan Campaign, was to link this in to the River Voices and get them to be the instigators. so, instead of being asked to go on a mission, they searched for a Golden Barge and HeroQuested to find it in Hell, they found it embedded int a gigantic Dragonship, ten miles long. so, they repaired it, released the spirit of an Inhuman King to power it, released Dormal to steer it and so on. They managed to get it going and then we did The Sky ship Scenario as the culmination to a year-long arc. Same with the Cradle, the PCs befriended the Giants, found out that their Cradles had been stopped, guided a Dead Cradle to Hell, then helped the Giants to bring forth a new baby and guided the Cradle downstream to become The Cradle scenario. rather than being bystanders or participants under someone else's control, they took control of the whole thing.

 

 

 

Orlanth is dead looks much harder to convert to RQ. The iceland battle in particular.

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, smiorgan said:

Orlanth is dead looks much harder to convert to RQ. The iceland battle in particular.

It sort-of works OK. You have to take some liberties and put the PCs in the heart of the action, but it is better for a highish level campaign.

 

[Gamesmeister]

I'm currently playing through Eleven Lights, and while still early in the campaign, it plays very well using Runequest. In fact, in many ways it's more satisfying that your classic RQ scenarios, as you get to use all those non-combat skills that adorn your character sheet but rarely see play.

[Lordabdul]

3 hours ago, Gamesmeister said:

In fact, in many ways it's more satisfying that your classic RQ scenarios

It's funny because my understanding was that, from very early in the life of RQ, it actually differentiated itself by being a lot more than just a series of fight scenes, on account of (1) fights being deadly, and therefore players avoid them as much as possible, seeking non-combat solutions more than in other games, and (2) all creatures in Glorantha being pictured as living and breathing, as opposed to being monsters meant to be killed to get loot. Of course, I might misunderstand RQ's original philosophy since I'm a fairly newcomer.

On 4/11/2020 at 7:45 AM, smiorgan said:

How would you do it? Filling in the details? Or leaving things very free-form?

I haven't done it (yet) but I would frankly leave things free-form indeed. Whether I'm running Savage Worlds or GURPS, I actually almost never stat things up. I prepare my NPCs mostly by writing up a description of who they are, what they want, what faction(s) they belong to, what they're good at, etc. Then as the PCs interact with them, I come up with stat scores on the fly based on what this mental picture of the NPC is... you could consider that, basically, I've been doing the "prose method, on the go" character creation from HeroQuest, without knowing it. It does have the downside that I sometimes come up with not quite the correct scores (especially when I'm not totally familiar with how a game system scales up and down), but I don't sweat it, especially since it saves me a fuck ton of preparation, which I can reinvest in focusing on the story.

On 4/11/2020 at 7:45 AM, smiorgan said:

How would you manage non-combat contests? A mix of unopposed characteristic, skill, passion and rune rolls? Opposed rolls? Yes, but opposed to what?

I'm not sure I understand... if the PCs need to dance to impress some King, roll Dance, with maybe some Augment with Charm or whatever. If they need to trade, roll Bargain. If they need to investigate something, roll Scan and Listen and such. And so on... I mean, that's what just using the game system for what it's for. Do you have particular situations to present that you have trouble translating to RQ rolls?

[Darius West]

On 4/12/2020 at 12:45 AM, smiorgan said:

I was looking at my copy of Barbarian Adventures for the original Hero Wars rules. The idea of adapting some of the scenarios to RQ is very appealing. They do have a different flavor and style than typical RQ scenarios: some of them are story-like and sketchy, but maybe a more free-flowing narrative can be a welcome change of pace and instigate  better role-playing.

I'm thinking in particular of Hero Wars/ early Hero Quest scenarios. Later Hero Quest 2nd edition scenarios may be different. I don't know.

So, is it worth adapting Hero quest materials? How would you do it? Filling in the details? Or leaving things very free-form?

How would you manage non-combat contests? A mix of unopposed characteristic, skill, passion and rune rolls? Opposed rolls? Yes, but opposed to what?

Of course, you could import the Revolution d100 mechanics for contests  ( @RosenMcStern ). But I'm interested in your ideas on how to do it within the RQG rules.

The stat blocks do not easily translate between HQ and RQG, but the plots and the settings certainly should. 

Considering that effectively a skill of 1W is 105%, most HQ characters are ridiculously OP by RQG standards.  It should be pretty obvious that if you can automatically choose which skills to improve after each adventure rather than rolling ups, you can get very powerful very quickly in a most munchkinesque fashion.  RQG is about playing people of a more ordinary level of ability than HQ.  It isn't unusual for HQ to have characters without any major cult allegiance who have skills in the 250%+ bracket.  That isn't possible in RQG, and shouldn't have been quite so possible in HQ imo if it were a well written system.  In RQG, it is quite an accomplishment to have even 1 skill with a mastery.

In terms of Opposed rolls, the rules are on p142, and the results are simple, whoever got the better result wins to a degree that their roll determines, based on the table provided.

Now, no doubt the forthcoming Game Master's Guide to Glorantha will have plenty of info on hero questing in Glorantha and will make the process a lot easier.  Presently, as you are likely well aware, there are no conversion rules for HQ into RQG. On the other hand, that makes many situations easier not harder to GM.  You don't have players saying "Well, I have 15W2 in Warrior, and that implies an ability to notice things and avoid ambushes, and Travis Tee the Giant Supermunchkin remembers the feat of "Supermunchkin Sees Out his magical HQ ass" at 4W2 so I will augment my warrior ability with that.  Nope, instead you have your simple Scan, and perhaps, if something relevant is actually on the line, you might be able to augment the skill with a passion, but only if it is situationally obvious that your character has a major emotional involvement in the outcome.  So, yeah, think of it like HQ is superheroes in spandex and RQG is police procedurals, perhaps?

[Stephen L]

On 4/12/2020 at 5:20 PM, soltakss said:

many of the scenarios are really scenario hooks and need NPCs

I’m not so keen on ident-a-kit NPCs, but don’t have time to generate large numbers of NPCs, so I’ve a programme for it.  If they’re any use, I’ve posted some NPCs from my campaign, which can be found on the downloads (Home >Downloads >RuneQuest in Glorantha >NPC-Squads-txt.zip, NPC-Squads-pdf.zip). 

I’ll add any more I generate, but my campaign’s quite slow moving, and what’s there (Lunars and Olranthi, and the odd mount) will do for the next few scenarios.  However, at some point they’re going into the Upland Marsh, so I’m guessing some undead will appear in due course

[Joerg]

22 hours ago, Darius West said:

The stat blocks do not easily translate between HQ and RQG, but the plots and the settings certainly should. 

HW / HQ1 stat blocks are lists of abilities that the character uses. 

Quite a lot of the major NPC abilities are followers, i.e. Loyalty "follower(s)" X%, and then a stat block for the follower.

HQ2 / HQG 

Quote

Considering that effectively a skill of 1W is 105%, most HQ characters are ridiculously OP by RQG standards. 

I think that is a mis-understanding. 1W in a rune is what allows you to initiate into the cult. What's that in RQG? 50%+.

 

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

I think that is a mis-understanding. 1W in a rune is what allows you to initiate into the cult. What's that in RQG? 50%+.

There is simply not an immediate "translation" of an HQ ability level to an RQG percentage.  If I was to roughly gauge 1W it would be at 90% - the RQG level that is nominally considered "mastery".  But 7W or 14W certainly do not directly translate to 135% or 160%.  The whole HQ scale is based on levels of difficulty, not a generalized skill.

It's better to work from the idea of what the HQ character is:  if a Priest, then identify what RQG skills are needed to be an RQ Priest.  If the HQ ability is over 1W, then incrementally bump the closest RQG skill by some amount (1d2 or 1d3 perhaps?) per increment over 1W (e.g. if 7W, then increment by 6d2 or 6d3 since RQ increases slow dramatically as you achieve mastery levels).

[Gamesmeister]

It's fairly pointless trying to convert characters from HQ to RQ, as their is no direct equivalence. Many of the later books, such as Kingdom of Heroes, don't even give stats to the HQ characters as HQ is more about resistance levels and the pass/fail cycle than actual stats. 

Instead, if you want to see how a high level character appears in RuneQuest, take a look at the stats for Leika Black Spear or Asborn Thriceborn in the Adventure book of the GM Screen pack. That should give you an idea of the scale you're looking at, the rest is just creative effort on your part.