Help me read the Entekosaid

[Videopete]

So the person who helped create Chronomancy has a holy text. Unfortunately it is not written with the more common names, or from what We can call a God Learner Perspective.  So let's read and try to bang out a understanding of what this is.

[Videopete]

So off the bat this thing is named after the Empress Goddess  Entekos and is pre Dara Hapa mythology. It was written by Valarie Addi, Sanct and Viatora.

 

For context Valarie Addi is the Lunar Empires top Heroe Questers, and figured out how to Greg the God Plane. Except the Lunars dont call Heroe Questing that. They call it Travelling and Journeying.  That distinction becomes important later. 

This is probably the easiest part of the read.

[Sir_Godspeed]

It's a *very* eclectic read, more understandable if you've familiarized yourself with the other background material first, but it never gets easy, per se. 

I'm not sure what kind of input you want here, but I'm here for it. It's definitely one of my favorite texts in that it gives us a kind of validation that other perspectives aside from the Monomyth-adjacent ones are of ancient provenance with something to teach us and not simply "misunderstandings."

[dumuzid]

welcome to the dancing grounds

[Videopete]

So what other background do we need. 

I am definitely going to need a notepad and sticky notes at least. And some flamewars if this reads like any religous texts I have tackled before.

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Videopete
Could not get picture to show.

[Videopete]

Entekos is the Goddess of Virtue, Atmospheric Air and Right Air. So that means she dwelt in the middle air and not the sky. Then there is Dendara, a planet, who is Yelms wife, just his wife. How ever Entekos is also the planet, but is not the wife, only a servant.  then it goes on how they may had been two separate gods, or they may had been one God but split due to Dara Hapan shenanigans.  How ever Entekos or Dendara can be used in godess rights because she is a Dara Hapan godess and she can do other rights for other Pelandan godesses, because Dara Hapan emperors said no foreigners can hold any sort of government or religious office, because Dara Hapan.

Okay, first half page was a dozy now only 93 more pages. 

So this requires some understanding of Dara Hapan culture, because this is wow, I haven't even gotten to the meat of this.

[scott-martin]

30 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

welcome to the dancing grounds

There will be blood. But this is how the world cycles.

[Bill the barbarian]

 

6 hours ago, Videopete said:

  Help me read the Entekosaid 

 

But why, you seem like a same individual who is not angry at me,  why would I wish to mess with that kind of a record?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Nevermet]

Following.

Have fun just trying to cross reference inside the text, nevermind the rest of the Glorantha corpus.

[Nevermet]

5 hours ago, Videopete said:

So this requires some understanding of Dara Hapan culture, because this is wow, I haven't even gotten to the meat of this.

Yeah

For cross referencing outside the Entekosaid, I found it handy to have The Guide, the Fortunate Succession, and the Glorious Reascent.  

Last time I read it carefully, I was more interested in figuring out Spol than Carmania, or perhaps I would have also had Revealed Mythologies handy too.

 

But yeah, it's one of the least Godlearner-y texts there is.

[Videopete]

35 minutes ago, Nevermet said:

Yeah

For cross referencing outside the Entekosaid, I found it handy to have The Guide, the Fortunate Succession, and the Glorious Reascent.  

Last time I read it carefully, I was more interested in figuring out Spol than Carmania, or perhaps I would have also had Revealed Mythologies handy too.

 

But yeah, it's one of the least Godlearner-y texts there is.

I just need to pick up glorious crescent and revealed myths, but I do have the lunar handbook, plus the glorantha sourcebook and guide.

Edited April 27, 2020 by Videopete

[David Scott]

May I suggest structuring this along similar lines to the Guide to Glorantha read.

• Define the book needed (there are a few versions)
• Set a reading goal (a chapter, x number of pages, etc) over a set time (a few days)
• some rules (no referring to stuff not yet read, proper references to external publications (name, version, date)

I had actually been planing on doing at some point.

[Minlister]

This is dangerous reading, but just the first step... at the very bottom of the Entekosiad lies the entrance to the Joergekosiad... 

[Videopete]

8 minutes ago, Minlister said:

This is dangerous reading, but just the first step... at the very bottom of the Entekosiad lies the entrance to the Joergekosiad... 

The what?

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

May I suggest structuring this along similar lines to the Guide to Glorantha read.

• Define the book needed (there are a few versions)
• Set a reading goal (a chapter, x number of pages, etc) over a set time (a few days)
• some rules (no referring to stuff not yet read, proper references to external publications (name, version, date)

I had actually been planing on doing at some point.

That's what I am planning to do. And plan to do, unfortunately all my Standford Library stuff is on a phone, and the stupid virus has left me unable to head to the print shop to make a hard back to relax in the comfy chair with some tea. Well onward and inward to this self inflicted madness, and wierd conversations at work.  They can get a taste, after all I suffered thier sports news and Tiger King excitement.

[Minlister]

Quote

This is dangerous reading, but just the first step... at the very bottom of the Entekosiad lies the entrance to the Joergekosiad... 

The what?

Ah... this is the ultimate well of knowledge... We know that Lhankor Mhy lost part of his knowledge, devoured by Jolsedar the Brain Flayer but until you reach the Joergekosiad you will not discover who ate Jolsedar the Brain Flayer... The Joergekosiad is where lies the secret of Hero Posting... When all your questions are answered and suddenly you don't understand your questions anymore!

[Videopete]

Okay who and what of this book, I had to dive in and review the Glorantha Source Book's Red Line History for context.

So again it was written by Valare Addi during the Zero Wane, must of been hard with the Carmanians being bigger dinks than the at the time oppressed Dara Hapan, tiny violin,. She wrote this book by doing  the Lunar version of Hero Questing called Traveling and Journeying, this is an important distinction later as it relates to the God Time shenanigans they pull off later.  Also the damn thing is incomplete, because Greg never finished it.  Also it doesn't use the Dara Happan spelling. It uses the Pelandan system of spelling because reasons. Those reasons are thanks to our old buddy Sheng Selaris, isn't he grand. More specifically the Lunar empire got reamed in the 4th and 3rd Wane, and had a phase of restoration in the 5th. 

So quick guide Pelandan to Dara Hapan 

UlEria = Uleria

Turos= Lodril

History, or what happend for some context. The book originally came out in the First Wane in a shorter version called "Travel and Journey of Addi".  In the Second Wane the Red Goddess isn't as important during the second wane edition because she's more of a guide, literacy the book  spreads in the Lunar Empire from the Priests and Nobility to the middle class, this causes conservative elements of the Dara Happan to restrict access to sacred rights only to Dendara Cult aka Yelm's Wife, how ever later the Dara Happan elements of the Lunar Empire lose importance because by the Fourth Wane, when Sheng Selaris was being a massive headache.  So by the Fifth Wane after his defeat, the Entekos cult start to take more power from the strictly Dendara priestesses. 

Also this isn't the only version of the book ,because of course it isn't Greg, just the 5th Wane edition, but we only get this one cause though because Sheng Selaris was being the best Sheng Selaris and ruined every thing.

Soon the book it self. Boy Howdy, pray for me.

[Videopete]

So I have no idea who the börk the Pelandan are, there are the Pelorians of the Peloria region, but then again my point of reference is the Gloranthan Sourcebook.  At least I know who Sheng Selaris is from Prince of Sartar.

[Videopete]

14 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

It's a *very* eclectic read, more understandable if you've familiarized yourself with the other background material first, but it never gets easy, per se. 

I'm not sure what kind of input you want here, but I'm here for it. It's definitely one of my favorite texts in that it gives us a kind of validation that other perspectives aside from the Monomyth-adjacent ones are of ancient provenance with something to teach us and not simply "misunderstandings."

Color commentary, encouragement, and clarifications if I go way out side interpitation, ie let's drink cool aid before the reticulans arrive cause I read 50 shades of grey, and that was a prophesy I think.

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, Videopete said:

So what other background do we need. 

For me, the most important thing to remember about the Entekosiad is that it is wrong.

It tries to prove something and ultimately fails.

Once you realise that, it is easy to understand.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Videopete said:

So I have no idea who the börk the Pelandan are, there are the Pelorians of the Peloria region

You definitely want to reference some of the text in the Guide to Glorantha.  I've included some of the most important references here:

Guide p.38: "most notably the Pelandans of the Oronin river valley, have their own tradition of urban civilization"

Guide p.292: "Oronin River: This wide, slow tributary of the Poralistor meanders some 190 miles from Lake Oronin in the south to its confluence with the Poralistor in the north. The Oronin Valley is the home of the ancient Pelandan culture and was the core of the old Carmanian Empire."

Guide p.316: "Oronin
This satrapy is a great rich region covered with fields of wheat and barley, fruit orchards, and liberally dotted with the ruins of bygone empires. The western half of this satrapy was once the heartland of Old Pelanda and Carmania, and is the source of many Lunar secrets."

Guide p.316: "Jernotius, Mount: The seven peaks of this Sacred Mountain show the faces of the Seven High Gods, the ancient pantheon of Pelanda. Its slopes are inhabited by the mountain sages, ascetic devotees of the god Jernotius, an avatar of Rashoran who taught Illumination in the God Time. An elect number become wandering monks, embodiments of mystical peace and perfection. They are professional priests of the High Gods, respected throughout Pelanda."

Guide p.317: "Pelanda: When the barbaric Andam Horde attacked ancient Wendaria from the south, they were beaten off by Daxdarius of Pelandre, who invented warfare and forged an empire of city-states called Pelanda. The Pelandan Empire’s culture flowered under the legendary King Garthemius the Wise, but collapsed during the Great Darkness and was only reconstituted at the Dawn by the great Hero Lendarsh."

Guide p.317: "The High Gods of Pelanda
These seven deities are worshiped together around Mount Jernotius, while temples to individual gods are found in most Pelandan cities. The Prophet Idomon taught the rituals of the High Gods, and though some of them were slain or displaced in the God Time. Lendarsh reinstituted their rites when the world was reborn at the Dawning.
The High Gods are: Jernotius the Liberator; Dendara, Goddess of Virtue; Idovanus, God of Order; Uleria, Goddess of Love; Bentus, God of Pleasure; Oria, Goddess of Success; and Turos, God of Power."

[jajagappa]

Also see the material on the Oronin River Valley by Nick Brooke and Greg here: http://etyries.albionsoft.com/etyries.com/carmania/oronin.html 

[Nevermet]

6 hours ago, David Scott said:

May I suggest structuring this along similar lines to the Guide to Glorantha read.

• Define the book needed (there are a few versions)
• Set a reading goal (a chapter, x number of pages, etc) over a set time (a few days)
• some rules (no referring to stuff not yet read, proper references to external publications (name, version, date)

I had actually been planing on doing at some point.

I will not suggest a reading group
I will not suggest a reading group
I will not suggest a reading group...

 

Heh, sounds like we should make a reading group!

Dammit!

[Nevermet]

Also, why are you reading this?  What do you want to get out of it?

[Joerg]

8 hours ago, Minlister said:

This is dangerous reading, but just the first step... at the very bottom of the Entekosiad lies the entrance to the Joergekosiad... 

Did I hear my name abused?

 

Before doing a head-dive into the Entekosiad, I would suggest to take a dip into the much more accessible Fortunate Succession, especially the Carmanian mythology there. It gives you a frame of reference that may become familiar once you have blazed a trail through numerous Green Age names of goddesses which I found hopeless to even memorize on the first readthrough of Entekosiad.

If you want to do cross-references between all those names, you might start with the index, creating entries out of each of those terms there, and then just interlinking those entries and noting your understanding of these entities, possibly mixing quotes with your own words, may help you organize the text.

Just reading the stories from paper doesn't quite do them justice. I witnessed a number of readings by Greg which gave these texts a different quality. Perhaps read some of this into a recording device, and then listen to your own reading may alter your reception of these stories.

 

There is quite a bit of cosmogony and theogony in the early bits of the core Entekosiad, with names that leave even a certified Gloranthaphile go "huh?" and scratching their beards (natural or artificial). The extra bits are a lot easier.

Getting a sense of continuity or something resembling a timeline (or the monomyth laid out in the God Learner Maps in the Guide) is extremely hard. There are stories that feel like a dystopian Green Age... 

Edited April 27, 2020 by Joerg

[Minlister]

@Joerg

Quote

Did I hear my name abused?

With all due respect! 🍻