Skiing in Glorantha

[Brootse]

Does anyone else other than the humans near Valind's Glacier use skis or snow shoes?

[Akhôrahil]

Skis and skiing is pretty high-tech (period, but specialised), so I would expect them to be less common. Uncolings might ski? Maybe northern Hill Orlanthi?

Snow-shoes I would expect all over the place. Rathori canonically use snow-shoes.

While we’re at it, skating might pop up in places with cold weather and extended water systems - there’s a 50-mile race in Sweden in the Lake Mälaren system when the weather allows.

 

[Sir_Godspeed]

I wouldn't put it past trolls to ski or use snow shoes. They'd get tired of trudging through three feet of snow too, I'd imagine.

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Skis and skiing is pretty high-tech (period, but specialised),

As far as I remember, archeological examples of skis appear 5000 to 6000 BC in Russia and China. They are perfectly OK for a bronze age setting.

[Akhôrahil]

7 minutes ago, Kloster said:

As far as I remember, archeological examples of skis appear 5000 to 6000 BC in Russia and China. They are perfectly OK for a bronze age setting.

That's what I said, wasn't it? But you don't get skiing unless it's cold and snowy enough to warrant the investment and practice, while snowshoes are simple and can be used by anyone.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[Kloster]

In that case, I misunderstood what you meant.

[Brootse]

32 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I wouldn't put it past trolls to ski or use snow shoes. They'd get tired of trudging through three feet of snow too, I'd imagine.

The Guide specifically mentions that the Snow Trolls don't use them, but perhaps Dark Trolls might.

 

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Rathori canonically use snow-shoes.

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about them.

[Akhôrahil]

5 minutes ago, Brootse said:

The Guide specifically mentions that the Snow Trolls don't use them, but perhaps Dark Trolls might.

Maybe Snow Trolls are biologically adapted, with large feet to spread the weight, similar to bears?

[Brootse]

17 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Maybe Snow Trolls are biologically adapted, with large feet to spread the weight, similar to bears?

Iirc this was mentioned in some older book.

[metcalph]

6 hours ago, Brootse said:

Does anyone else other than the humans near Valind's Glacier use skis or snow shoes?

There's been a mention of skiing elves in RQ3 book5 but that's it

[Brootse]

16 minutes ago, metcalph said:

There's been a mention of skiing elves in RQ3 book5 but that's it

Like, one elf using two other for skis?

[Bill the barbarian]

6 hours ago, Brootse said:

Does anyone else other than the humans near Valind's Glacier use skis or snow shoes?

Don’t know canonically, but in my world the Torkani use ‘em. A tribe with members that worship darkness (troll deities) and motion (orlanthi) would have to do something to get the most of the great outdoors in winter. They use a set up similar but far older to the one used in the RQ 3 Viking Box. 

Quote

When the cross-country skiers push off for the 50 kilometer race at the Winter Olympic Games in Pyeongchang, they will glide across the groomed track on slender skis, propelling themselves with lightweight poles in their pursuit of a gold medal. But the high-tech equipment used by the athletes in Pyeongchang is only the latest step in a long tradition of ski technology. The “Rødøy Man” skier, the inspiration for the 1994 Olympic pictogram, was scratched into rock in northern Norway about 4,500 years ago.

From A Brief History of Skiing

6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Skis and skiing is pretty high-tech (period, but specialised), so I would expect them to be less common. Uncolings might ski? Maybe northern Hill Orlanthi?

 

High tech I wil agree with, but also thousands of yers old here on the Marble. The Sami (a peoples indigenous to scandinavia)have used them forever. 

5 hours ago, Kloster said:

As far as I remember, archeological examples of skis appear 5000 to 6000 BC in Russia and China. They are perfectly OK for a bronze age setting.

Yes

 

 

Quote

 

SKIING HISTORY 101:

• 6300 BC: The world’s oldest skis were discovered in Russia, near Lake Sindor.
• 4000 BC: Rock carvings of a skier from this period were discovered in Norway.
• 3300 BC: Skis from this time period were discovered in Finland. They were 180 centimeters long and 15 centimeters wide. These skis had five grooves.
• 2700 BC: Two skis and a pole were dug out of a bog in Sweden.
• 2500 BC: Archaeologists discovered rock drawings that depict a man on skis holding a stick. The drawings were discovered on a Norwegian island.
• 200 BC to 200 AD: First documented reference to skiing in China.
• The word “ski” comes from the Old Norse word “skíð”, which means split piece of firewood

 

From The Origins of Skiing? | 8,000 Years Ago…

https://snowbrains.com/the-origins-of-skiing-7000-years-ago/

•  

Edited January 18, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[Akhôrahil]

17 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

High tech I wil agree with, but also thousands of yers old here on the Marble. The Sami (a peoples indigenous to scandinavia)have used them forever. 

This was the point I was trying to make as well. There's nothing wrong with skis in the setting - the tech is more than period - but it's probably only people who need to ski who make the investment. I could easily see it being universal among Uncolings (Glorantha's version of the Sami, after all).

[Ladygolem]

Something to consider: like the modern sport of cross-country skiing, skis were invented for travelling long distances over snow. So if you're trying to figure out if a given clan or culture would likely use them, then considering whether or not they would often have a need for Dark Season travel would be a good place to start. Keeping up with migrating herds (for instance, of reindeer, as mentioned above) is one such reason. I'm sure the imaginative writer could come up with more.

[Akhôrahil]

1 minute ago, Ladygolem said:

Something to consider: like the modern sport of cross-country skiing, skis were invented for travelling long distances over snow. So if you're trying to figure out if a given clan or culture would likely use them, then considering whether or not they would often have a need for Dark Season travel would be a good place to start. Keeping up with migrating herds (for instance, of reindeer, as mentioned above) is one such reason. I'm sure the imaginative writer could come up with more.

Winter hunting could be another.

[Ladygolem]

Just now, Akhôrahil said:

Winter hunting could be another.

Which begs the question: why don't they hunt in warmer weather? Maybe there's rare prey that only shows up in winter. Maybe winter is the only time that the Brown Elves, which guard the local game-filled woods, hibernate...

[Akhôrahil]

3 minutes ago, Ladygolem said:

Which begs the question: why don't they hunt in warmer weather? Maybe there's rare prey that only shows up in winter. Maybe winter is the only time that the Brown Elves, which guard the local game-filled woods, hibernate...

Winter pelts would be one simple reason. Moose can be easier to hunt in snow (they’re not nearly as good at running in it). Just doing something instead of just sitting in the hut.

My Odaylan hunters sleep a lot in winter, though.

[Kloster]

14 minutes ago, Ladygolem said:

Which begs the question: why don't they hunt in warmer weather?

Because you need food all year long, you hunt all year long, including cold weather. Meat is difficult to keep for long duration, and you need bones, skins and sinew for making clothes and tools. It is also possible that some game can only be hunted in winter (migrating species) and are needed for such or such reason.

[Akhôrahil]

11 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Because you need food all year long, you hunt all year long, including cold weather. Meat is difficult to keep for long duration, and you need bones, skins and sinew for making clothes and tools. It is also possible that some game can only be hunted in winter (migrating species) and are needed for such or such reason.

I'm sure it can be really scary though - not just the cold, but trolls and ice demons abroad.

[Kloster]

7 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I'm sure it can be really scary though - not just the cold, but trolls and ice demons abroad.

Completely true. The cold in itself is enough to make hunting dangerous, some of the game can also be, but trolls and demons add another layer of potential troubles.

[soltakss]

The Snow King's Bride SoloQuest used skiing, I seem to remember, but I am not sure if that was Gloranthan.

6 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I'm sure it can be really scary though - not just the cold, but trolls and ice demons abroad.

Yes, so most people hunt in groups. The lone hunter braving the cold is either foolish or heroic.

6 hours ago, Kloster said:

Completely true. The cold in itself is enough to make hunting dangerous, some of the game can also be, but trolls and demons add another layer of potential troubles.

Generally, if you wear the right clothing and have somewhere to hole up then cold is fairly easy to handle.

I have been out in -20C and barely felt it. -30C burnt my face a bit, but a scarf or balaclava fixed that. People regularly work outside in -40C (and -40F) as long as they can get back to shelter and hot drinks/meals. I am not sure about -50C and so on, but they handle this in Siberia. -60C and -70C would be tricky, but the recent ascent of K2 in winter was at those temperatures, so it is possible for short period of time.

But, the combination of -40C, snow pixies removing your clothing and then facing Hollri might be tricky.

[pachristian]

7 hours ago, Kloster said:

Completely true. The cold in itself is enough to make hunting dangerous, some of the game can also be, but trolls and demons add another layer of potential troubles.

Not as scary as starving to death.

[Bill the barbarian]

8 hours ago, Ladygolem said:

Something to consider: like the modern sport of cross-country skiing, skis were invented for travelling long distances over snow. So if you're trying to figure out if a given clan or culture would likely use them, then considering whether or not they would often have a need for Dark Season travel would be a good place to start. Keeping up with migrating herds (for instance, of reindeer, as mentioned above) is one such reason. I'm sure the imaginative writer could come up with more.

It’s winter and there is snow on the ground impeding travel, I will aver that should be sufficient. Ergo, most of Sartar should ski, I will say the Torkani with their loves of darkness and movement will most definitely do so.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Bill the barbarian

[Akhôrahil]

12 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

It’s winter and there is snow on the ground impeding travel, I will aver that should be sufficient. Ergo, most of Sartar should ski, I will say the Torkani with their loves of darkness and movement will most definitely do so.

Something we don't hear a lot about but that must surely be super common is sledging. In many real-world areas, winter travel was actually easier due to frozen ground and sledges. A lot of wood-cutting transportation in pre-industrial Scandinavia took place using sledges in wintertime. You can get sleds into places where a wagon would never work. Plus rivers become highways.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[dumuzid]

Now I'm imagining troll sledges pulled by lashed-together teams of trollkin