Bless Champion questions

[Scorus]

"Any defensive spirit or Rune magic spell that the caster casts on the target has its effects extended to last one full day or until the effects of Bless Champion end" under this spell. Assuming it is cast by an Ernaldan, the only spells that I see that definitely would be able to be extended by this are Absorption and Protection/Shimmer/Countermagic (unless they had a second cult with access to other spells). Vigor seems a bit of a stretch, but I could see it. Earth Shield targets the shield and not the character, so wouldn't work. Earthpower is self only.

What other spells would qualify under this that an Ernaldan is likely to have (neither BG or MG have the spell)? Given that Absorption is incompatible with Shield, it seems like this would only result in an extended Protection spell (which ain't nothin', of course!).

[Runeblogger]

Ernalda can get Shield from Orlanth the Adventurer

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Scorus said:

What other spells would qualify under this that an Ernaldan is likely to have (neither BG or MG have the spell)?

Spirit Block.  Peace (from the Three-bean Circus).  Impede Chaos (from Storm Bull).  You might be able to treat Breathe Air/Water (from Magasta) as defensive if not targeting a foe. 

[HreshtIronBorne]

In our last campaign we absolutely allowed casting Earth Shield on the Blessed Champion. We figured it is the RuneSpell from Arming of Orlanth. Ernalda Giving him the Unbreakable Shield is a whole part of that right?

[Akhôrahil]

Shield, Vigor, Spirit Screen/Block. And Earth Shield is clearly intended even though RAW doesn’t allow it.

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

 Impede Chaos (from Storm Bull).  

Good call.

[Akhôrahil]

Oh, and Inviolable.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Oh, and Inviolable.

That one probably not as it has to be cast upon yourself.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

If the oppositon sucessfully dispels the 2 point Bless Champion, all the "buff" spells go away?

[Akhôrahil]

7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

That one probably not as it has to be cast upon yourself.

Yeah, you’re right, I just saw ”ranged” and forgot it’s effect area and not ranged targeting.

The same would go for your suggestion of Peace, I believe?

Edited July 4, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

If the oppositon sucessfully dispels the 2 point Bless Champion, all the "buff" spells go away?

Good question! Hard to say, really. I think the closest reading of RAW is that the spell that’s cast on someone with Bless Champion gains a one-day duration that’s part of that spell, so that dispelling Bless Champion doesn’t affect the spell’s duration because the increased duration is a one-time effect.

A reasonable option might be to say that if Bless Champion is dispelled, then the spells cast will start to run out their normal durations from that moment.

Edited July 4, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

If you’re buffing someone with Bless Champion, this is also the perfect time to use the Spell Traded spells you saved up for just this opportunity…

[Scotty]

Remember that Bless Champion can only be cast on a member of one of Ernalda‘s husband protectors. Each homeland has only one husband protector except Esrolia that has most of them. You're not going to get a range of husband protector rune magic except there. Here's what can be considered defensive or can be used defensively, although your GM may decide otherwise:

Common Rune Magic
Command (cult spirit)
Find Enemy
Soul Sight
Spirit Block

Ernalda Rune Magic
Absorption
Charisma
Command Snake
Command Swine

Associate Cult Rune Magic
Babeester Gor - Earth Shield.
Three Bean Circus - Peace (although unlikely as 1-use and High Priestesses only)

Husband-Protectors
Argan Argar - Create Shadow (Esrolia only)
Orlanth Adventurous - Shield
Storm Bull - Impede Chaos (Esrolia & Prax only)
Yelmalio - Catseye

14 hours ago, Scorus said:

Given that Absorption is incompatible with Shield

See RBM page 10 & 78, Absorption is compatible with Shield. It does not say it isn't.

14 hours ago, Scorus said:

Earth Shield targets the shield and not the character, so wouldn't work

Bless Champion says target, and as such would cover a fully armed and armoured target at the time the ritual took place. It's up to the GM to decide if they want to limit  the effect of the spell in their games.

6 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

If the opposition successfully dispels the 2 point Bless Champion, all the "buff" spells go away?

Yes

Quote

After the ritual, any defensive spirit or Rune magic spell that the caster casts on the target has its effects extended to last one full day or until the effects of Bless Champion end.

If they've been running longer than their normal duration they end. They do not act as though they have just been cast.

[Akhôrahil]

All Command spells affect the caster though, and hence can’t be used with Bless Champion?

(Also not confident that I think mind-controlling someone counts as "defensive", but that's more of a semantic question.)

Edited July 4, 2021 by Akhôrahil

[PhilHibbs]

I don't agree with these:

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

Common Rune Magic
Command (cult spirit)
Find Enemy

Ernalda Rune Magic
Command Snake
Command Swine

Associate Cult Rune Magic
Three Bean Circus - Peace (although unlikely as 1-use and High Priestesses only)

Husband-Protectors
Argan Argar - Create Shadow (Esrolia only)

Maybe if you cast Bless Champion on a cult spirit of a husband protector deity, then you could use Command on them and have it last all day, but do they count as worshippers? And can they take part in the 30 minute ritual, which I always imagined had a substantial, er, physical component? And does Ernalda give Command (husband protector cult spirit)?

Peace is just an area of effect spell, you don't cast it on someone. Same for Create Shadow. Find Enemy is self only.

Edited July 4, 2021 by PhilHibbs

[soltakss]

16 hours ago, Scorus said:

Earth Shield targets the shield and not the character, so wouldn't work.

I would allow Earth Shield. It seems silly that it would not benefit a Champion.

16 hours ago, Scorus said:

What other spells would qualify under this that an Ernaldan is likely to have (neither BG or MG have the spell)?

Ernalda's spells are shown below.

• Ernalda Cult Magic: Absorption, Arouse Passion, Bless Champion, Bless Crops, Bless Pregnancy, Charisma, Command Snake, Command Swine, Dismiss Earth Elemental (any size), Earthpower, Gnome to Gargoyle (one-use), Heal Body, Inviolable, Regrow Limb, Reproduce, Restore Health, Summon Earth Elemental (any size), Summon Household Guardian.
• Associate Cult Magic: Accelerate Growth, Hide Wealth, Earth Shield, Healing Trance, Bless Animals, Seal Soul, Blast Earth, Peace, Bless Grave
• Husband Protector Magic: Cloud Call, Shield, Create Shadow, Bear Fruit spell, Breathe Air/Water, Impede Chaos, Cloud Clear, Catseye

So, looking at this spells:

• Combat spells: Arouse Passion, Charisma, Inviolable (Maybe), Earth Shield, Shield, Breathe Air/Water, Impede Chaos, Catseye.
• For stopping violence: Arouse Passion, Charisma, Peace, Inviolable, Reproduce
• Other useful effects: Accelerate Growth, Bear Fruit, Regrow Limb, Healing Trance

 

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

So, looking at this spells:

• Combat spells: Arouse Passion, Charisma, Inviolable (Maybe), Earth Shield, Shield, Breathe Air/Water, Impede Chaos, Catseye.
• For stopping violence: Arouse Passion, Charisma, Peace, Inviolable, Reproduce
• Other useful effects: Accelerate Growth, Bear Fruit, Regrow Limb, Healing Trance

Inviolate and Peace are self-targeting (or in the case of Peace, possibly area-targeting - it's not clear whether it's focused on the caster or on the initial point of casting).

Reproduce, Accelerate Growth, Bear Fruit, Healing Trance and Regrow Limb don't gain any effect (I think?) from a different duration.

Arouse Passion is an excellent catch - it's correctly targetable, benefits from the duration, and makes sense in the context. It should probably be limited in what passions can be inflamed - Honor, Love or Loyalty make sense, while Hate is perhaps no longer defensive in nature?

[Scotty]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I don't agree with these:

Never trust a list made by one of your players. You are likely right.

[PhilHibbs]

14 hours ago, Scotty said:

Never trust a list made by one of your players. You are likely right.

And, I just saw that you presented that as a list of spells that could be considered defensive, not necessarily as spells that can benefit from Bless Champion which is the context that I assumed. So I don't necessarily disagree with the list as it was intended.

[Dragon]

Don't discount Charisma. It is incredibly powerful in a few contexts. It doubles the champion's CHA. The champion is likely, but not always, a Rune Lord and thus has 18+ CHA. Adding 18 CHA increases their skills in communication and magic by 20-25% depending on breakpoints. This includes Spirit Combat and Meditation (e.g. overcome Befuddle) skills.

It likely increases their spirit combat damage 1d6 (with a chance of adding 2d6+1 for e.g. POW 19/CHA 19 1d6+3 to POW 19/CHA 38 3d6+4). Meaning, if spirit combat is even remotely possible, the Ernaldan caster should definitely include Charisma in the spells cast. Champions should end in the 2d6+3 or 3d6+4 area if they are worthy of the title Champion (cough).

Of course if Spirit Combat is the main concern, include Spirit Screen and/or Spirit Block on the defensive side as well. In my mind 3d6+4 damage in spirit combat is better than that one RP going for 2 more spiritual armor. Of course, Spirit Screen and/or Spirit Block are incompatible for Champions who may need melee protections where Protection and/or Shield may be more necessary. I am pretty sure everyone knows I mean Spirit Screen/Protection are incompatible and Spirit Block/Shield are incompatible (by RBoM).

As stated above, Earth Shield makes mythical sense. As GM, I would definitely allow it. YGMV.

[Akhôrahil]

The GM will have to decide what "defensive" means - it could be just "non-offensive" in which case a lot of spells will work, or it could mean literally defensive, in which case Charisma wouldn't count. I would probably say "non-offensive".

[Shiningbrow]

On 7/7/2021 at 6:22 AM, Akhôrahil said:

The GM will have to decide what "defensive" means - it could be just "non-offensive" in which case a lot of spells will work, or it could mean literally defensive, in which case Charisma wouldn't count. I would probably say "non-offensive".

I'm offended by that!!!