Post-Belintar Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death

[Scorus]

I seem to remember reading that there were multiple Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death after Jar-eel killed Belintar in 1621, but that survivors of them tell of intervention by outsiders believed to be lunars. Assuming that this is Jar-eel or her influence, did her death at the Battle of Heroes open any doors to a potential new Belintar?

[Joerg]

At the very least, we know that no new Belintar has emerged.

It isn't quite clear whether getting a new Belintar was the primary goal of the participants, though, as the reward was a god-like existence in that magical Holy Country parallel of the Tournament. If any of the tournaments had such a winner, good luck to them, but neither their bodies nor Belintar emerged from the tournament.

[Eff]

Jar-eel is also a goddess in her own right. Harrek tearing her body's heart out doesn't erase her mythological imprint on the Holy Country as dismemberer of Belintar, and it might even make her heartless in a symbolic sense. Granted, certain Hero Wars events might open up ways to deal with the Red Woman, standing in the way to the gate to Belintar's paradise, ready to give free lessons in putting yourself back together again...

[jajagappa]

5 hours ago, Scorus said:

I seem to remember reading that there were multiple Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death after Jar-eel killed Belintar in 1621, but that survivors of them tell of intervention by outsiders believed to be lunars. Assuming that this is Jar-eel or her influence, did her death at the Battle of Heroes open any doors to a potential new Belintar?

Jar-eel kills Belintar in 1616, the so-called "Evil Year" of the Holy Country.  A Tournament begins that year - it fails, many/most candidates die, and those who survived report attacks by red-clad intruders. 

There may have been a few attempts to start another Tournament.  IIRC, Jeff described it as immediately getting thrown back out of the Otherworld.  They don't even get the Tournament underway. 

There are no indications that her death in 1628 changes this.  In fact, it may be that the failure to get the Tournament underway has unleashed potent magical energy into the world beyond the Holy Country (i.e. the magic was no longer constrained there), and this abundant magical energy is now helping to fuel the Hero Wars. 

It is quite likely that Harrek's sack of the City of Wonders in 1625 (and its subsequent disappearance from the world) destroys the last chance for a Tournament to begin.

[David Scott]

18 hours ago, Scorus said:

I seem to remember reading that there were multiple Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death after Jar-eel killed Belintar in 1621, but that survivors of them tell of intervention by outsiders believed to be lunars. Assuming that this is Jar-eel or her influence, did her death at the Battle of Heroes open any doors to a potential new Belintar?

@jeff has written three articles around this:

• Look at Masters of Luck and Death I & II here, 2021-07 Jeff on Facebook
• Belintar here, 2021-02 Jeff on Facebook

Where it gives some thoughts on how to become Belintar and why he's not coming back.

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

@jeff has written three articles around this:

• Look at Masters of Luck and Death I & II here, 2021-07 Jeff on Facebook
• Belintar here, 2021-02 Jeff on Facebook

Where it gives some thoughts on how to become Belintar and why he's not coming back.

There's lots of great stuff there. Worth rereading!

[EricW]

I’ve always wondered why someone in the Holy Country didn’t perform a hideous seven mothers style quest to put their god king back together, with chaos as the glue and replacement for any missing parts. 
 

I mean they just seem to wither away, instead of the usual Gloranthan response to disaster of attempting something desperate.

[Darius West]

On 10/26/2021 at 5:57 AM, Scorus said:

I seem to remember reading that there were multiple Tournaments of the Masters of Luck and Death after Jar-eel killed Belintar in 1621, but that survivors of them tell of intervention by outsiders believed to be lunars. Assuming that this is Jar-eel or her influence, did her death at the Battle of Heroes open any doors to a potential new Belintar?

Unlikely that this would occur given that Belintar likely ended up in a Lunar Hell, at least until he escaped and was reborn as Harshax.

[Jeff]

52 minutes ago, EricW said:

I’ve always wondered why someone in the Holy Country didn’t perform a hideous seven mothers style quest to put their god king back together, with chaos as the glue and replacement for any missing parts. 
 

I mean they just seem to wither away, instead of the usual Gloranthan response to disaster of attempting something desperate.

This is what people don't get - the Seven Mothers didn't have a plan to revive the Red Moon any more than Harmast thought he'd be rescuing Arkat from Hell. The most powerful heroquests are always serendipitous.

[David Scott]

20 hours ago, EricW said:

I’ve always wondered why someone in the Holy Country didn’t perform a hideous seven mothers style quest to put their god king back together, with chaos as the glue and replacement for any missing parts. 

Ignoring the Seven Mothers style quest, what you are suggesting is effectively what Belintar did originally. But looking at Some Disassembly required, Jar-eel keeps his Moon part and on the following page releases the Spirit of Freedom. These pieces are likely harder to reacquire. Who do you se as the somebody doing this quest?

[Kloster]

36 minutes ago, David Scott said:

These pieces are likely harder to reacquire. Who do you se as the somebody doing this quest?

Argrath, just to annoy the Lunars.

[EricW]

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

Ignoring the Seven Mothers style quest, what you are suggesting is effectively what Belintar did originally. But looking at Some Disassembly required, Jar-eel keeps his Moon part and on the following page releases the Spirit of Freedom. These pieces are likely harder to reacquire. Who do you se as the somebody doing this quest?

Its the hero wars - why does it have to be someone we have heard of? But perhaps Belintar himself was the reason no hero came forward to restore Belintar, the stagnation of having Belintar in charge robbed his subjects of much of their initiative.

 

23 hours ago, Jeff said:

This is what people don't get - the Seven Mothers didn't have a plan to revive the Red Moon any more than Harmast thought he'd be rescuing Arkat from Hell. The most powerful heroquests are always serendipitous.

What were the Seven Mothers trying to do?
 

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, EricW said:

What were the Seven Mothers trying to do?

Find a magical way to break the Carmanian Bull Shah conquest of their lands, which had become harder after the son of Cartavar the Conqueror succeeded in the Ten Tests and wielded celestial Dara Happan authority.

[metcalph]

8 hours ago, EricW said:

What were the Seven Mothers trying to do?
 

Destroy the Carmanian Empire.