Red Book of Magic - Cult reference?

[BrentS]

Finally got my hands on the Red Book (thanks Santa) and the nice Rune/alphabetical table that came with the Bricks & Mortar pdf.

One thing I immediately noticed as I started to browse was that there is no identification of what are obviously cult specific Rune spells. I know there is some listing in the brief cult descriptions in RQG but as the Red Book is a comprehensive spell listing there are obviously a bunch of spells here that are exclusive to specific cults. The first I noticed was Attract Attention, which I know from RQII Trollpak is an exclusive Xiola Umbar Rune spell but that cult doesn't even appear in the RQG core book. I assume the coming Cult Compendium will address this but I thought it would be very handy to have an aplhabetical document that indicates which Red Book Rune spells are associated with which cults. It would probably also be nice to have an alphabetical Spirit magic taught/prohibited by cult list. If using the book not just as reference but as an inspiration for gaming hooks, it would be handy to know the context in which a particular spell could be introduced to the game (what cult does the NPC need to be for me to use this magic as a plot device?) Also handy for players deciding on cult affiliation.

Does anything like this exist out there for the Red Book?

Thanks,

Brent.

[Bill the barbarian]

24 minutes ago, BrentS said:

Does anything like this exist out there for the Red Book?

 

The only thing I know about is a doc compiled by Austin Conrad and available at chaosium.com. Its breaks spells down by runes required to cast em.
https://www.chaosium.com/content/FreePDFs/RuneQuest/CHA4034 - Red Book of Magic/RuneQuest - Rune Spell Reference.pdf

This being a fan item, it might just take a fan to put together what you are looking for Brent.

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[BrentS]

Thanks Bill. That was the spell-by-Rune reference that came with my Bricks and Mortar pdf. Quite handy but not as a cult reference (although of course there is a vague correlation with cult Rune affinity).

What I was asking about may not be a possibility until the Cult Compendium comes out and the cult homes of these spells are clearly identified. It might be possible to compile by trawling the various RQ II publications but we can't be sure that those legacy cult affiliations will be exactly the same in RQG. As it stands, the Red Book feels like a reference for other books, including unreleased ones like the Cult Compendium. It's awesome and its utility will obviously increase when the Cult Compendium is released but at the moment it feels a bit disconnected, at least as far as the Rune spells are concerned.

Brent.

[Bill the barbarian]

22 minutes ago, BrentS said:

What I was asking about may not be a possibility until the Cult Compendium comes out and the cult homes of these spells are clearly identified.

Yes, the Cults of Glorantha or the Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha or... the Cult Compendium... one of ‘em, eh? That will make the job a lot easier. But again, Austin is simply a JC author (I suppose that is the wrong way to put it... JC authors rock!). It was Chaosium folk who took that great work and and made it look very official... (do I have the right of it @Crel). 

22 minutes ago, BrentS said:

It might be possible to compile by trawling the various RQ II publications but we can't be sure that those legacy cult affiliations will be exactly the same in RQG.

Yes, starting now would be a crap shoot.

22 minutes ago, BrentS said:

s it stands, the Red Book feels like a reference for other books, including unreleased ones like the Cult Compendium. It's awesome and its utility will obviously increase when the Cult Compendium is released but at the moment it feels a bit disconnected, at least as far as the Rune spells are concerned.

And the way this will probably (just a guess, so we will have to wait and see) play out is starting as a fan piece, like the above mentioned thang... but as you sagely say, that can wait until we have all of our ducks (whether they are in a row or not is immaterial).

It is looking more compleat as we go along anyway. I seem to recall you are an old hat at this RQ stuff. Ya gotta admit that it has not looked this good since the brief renaissance of the 90s.

Edited January 1, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Yes, the Cults of Glorantha or the Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha or... the Cult Compendium... one of ‘em, eh?

My money's on "The big book of Runequest Glorantha culty-type things: What you never realised you did - and didn't need to know."

[Bill the barbarian]

Nah

 

[soltakss]

11 hours ago, BrentS said:

Does anything like this exist out there for the Red Book?

If you get the PDF of the Gloranthan Classic: Cult Compendium, it details the spells available to the cults.

However, Cult Compendium is going to be superseded by Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha, when that comes out.

[jajagappa]

On 12/31/2021 at 8:03 PM, BrentS said:

One thing I immediately noticed as I started to browse was that there is no identification of what are obviously cult specific Rune spells. I know there is some listing in the brief cult descriptions in RQG but as the Red Book is a comprehensive spell listing there are obviously a bunch of spells here that are exclusive to specific cults. The first I noticed was Attract Attention, which I know from RQII Trollpak is an exclusive Xiola Umbar Rune spell but that cult doesn't even appear in the RQG core book. I assume the coming Cult Compendium will address this but I thought it would be very handy to have an aplhabetical document that indicates which Red Book Rune spells are associated with which cults. It would probably also be nice to have an alphabetical Spirit magic taught/prohibited by cult list. If using the book not just as reference but as an inspiration for gaming hooks, it would be handy to know the context in which a particular spell could be introduced to the game (what cult does the NPC need to be for me to use this magic as a plot device?) Also handy for players deciding on cult affiliation.

Does anything like this exist out there for the Red Book?

The identification of Rune spells by cult will largely depend on the release of the upcoming Cults/Gods of Glorantha book.  While you can find some of the spells in older material particularly the Moon Design Cults Compendium, there are spells that belong to gods only seen in the RQ3 Gods of Glorantha (e.g. Magasta, Wachaza), or not previously seen (e.g. Dayzatar, Ourania). 

Once that work is available, if it does not include a reference of spells by cult, then it will be easy enough for someone to prepare such a list, much like Austin did for spells by Rune.

[Byll]

Yeah, I took me ages to spot who uses the Peace rune spell even in the RQG main book. The Three Bean Circus grants it to the High Priestesses of Eiritha and Ernalda. It would be nice to have a look-up table of some sort.

[Cloud64]

On 1/1/2022 at 1:03 AM, BrentS said:

One thing I immediately noticed as I started to browse was that there is no identification of what are obviously cult specific Rune spells.

Odd that cult references are in the Starter Set Rune spell descriptions, yet not the RBoM. Cult specific Rune spells are listed for each cult in the Core rules so it's not like the info isn't there. One rationale I can see is that cult info would easily go out of date in the RBoM if new cults become available and share some cult specific spells already in the book, so best leave it out. Then again, they may have new spells that won't make it into the book until it is revised.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Cloud64

[David Scott]

2 hours ago, Byll said:

Yeah, I took me ages to spot who uses the Peace rune spell even in the RQG main book. The Three Bean Circus grants it to the High Priestesses of Eiritha and Ernalda. It would be nice to have a look-up table of some sort.

Peace is a good example of how complex this is, as the 3BC are an associate spirit cult of Eiritha and Ernalda that only provides the spell to High priestesses. The spirit cult is mentioned as part of Eiritha (in CoG), but that's it, they only give one spell. You'd likely need to list who the spell is available for within the cult, its relationship (sub, associate, hero cult) and cult reference. Here's an example of just a few spells, multiplying it up would produce a huge doc.

 

[Jeff]

4 hours ago, Cloud64 said:

Odd that cult references are in the Starter Set Rune spell descriptions, yet not the RBoM. Cult specific Rune spells are listed for each cult in the Core rules so it's not like the info isn't there. One rationale I can see is that cult info would easily go out of date in the RBoM if new cults become available and share some cult specific spells already in the book, so best leave it out. Then again, they may have new spells that won't make it into the book until it is revised.

They aren't in the Red Book of Magic because it is a companion to the forthcoming Cults of Glorantha which has over 100 cults. It is easier doing that for a self-contained list of a dozen cults.

[BrentS]

On 1/4/2022 at 2:46 AM, David Scott said:

Peace is a good example of how complex this is, as the 3BC are an associate spirit cult of Eiritha and Ernalda that only provides the spell to High priestesses. The spirit cult is mentioned as part of Eiritha (in CoG), but that's it, they only give one spell. You'd likely need to list who the spell is available for within the cult, its relationship (sub, associate, hero cult) and cult reference. Here's an example of just a few spells, multiplying it up would produce a huge doc.

 

Thank you, David.

I know you posted this as an illustration of what a mammoth task and huge document this would be.....but that's exactly the sort of thing I was asking about and I think would be well worth the effort, maybe as a group community project given the size of the task. It would be an invaluable companion to the Red Book. It would obviously need to wait until the Bumper Book of Cults is available (sorry, I might have confused things by giving it the label of the previous Gloranthan classics publication).

Brent.

Edited January 5, 2022 by BrentS

[Bill the barbarian]

27 minutes ago, BrentS said:

I know you posted this as an illustration of what a mammoth task and huge document this would be.....but that's exactly the sort of thing I was asking about and I think would be well worth the effort, maybe as a group community project given the size of the task.

I'd be happy to give the project my efforts, I can edit, proof or enter data. The real trick will be finding a coordinator for the task. You in Brent? This could and should be a multi person effort. Hey @Crel one more time? Then all we need is the blessing of Chaosium to allow it to happen, like Austin's last reference doc mentioned above. 

27 minutes ago, BrentS said:

the Bumper Book of Cults

The BBoC... does not sing to me...

Edited January 5, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[BrentS]

21 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I'd be happy to give the project my efforts, I can edit, proof or enter data. The real trick will be finding a coordinator for the task. You in Brent? This could and should be a multi person effort. Hey @Crel one more time? Then all we need is the blessing of Chaosium to allow it to happen, like Austin's last reference doc mentioned above. 

The BBoC... does not sing to me...

Yes, I'd certainly put my hand up.

Brent.

[Scotty]

You may find these useful for the slipcase set books:

• Rune Magic by Cult and Associate Cult
• Spirit Magic by Cult and Associate Cult

[brionl]

On 1/5/2022 at 1:41 PM, BrentS said:

Thank you, David.

I know you posted this as an illustration of what a mammoth task and huge document this would be.....but that's exactly the sort of thing I was asking about and I think would be well worth the effort, maybe as a group community project given the size of the task. It would be an invaluable companion to the Red Book. It would obviously need to wait until the Bumper Book of Cults is available (sorry, I might have confused things by giving it the label of the previous Gloranthan classics publication).

Brent.

 

If spells were previously cult specific, like Attract Attention and Xiola Umbar I really doubt it will suddenly be removed from them and given to, say, Yelmalio or something. The RQC Cult Compendium should be a good starting point for a rough draft.