Unicorns as initiates of Yelorna

[Russ Massey]

A Yelornan in my Sandheart campaign has successfully completed her unicorn quest, and now wants her mount to initiate into Yelorna. Her argument is that as unicorns are mythically associated with the goddess, and as there are entires tribes of unicorn-riding Yelornans, this should be an common-place and routine thing.

I'm not so certain. Using the guidelines from the otiginal cult write-up in Big Rubble it would seem to me that the unicorn would have to pass the normal tests for initiation (heavily disadvantaged here from the lack of thumbs), and be forbidden from ever progressing beyond initiate status as it is not a human or Aldryami. Am I being too harsh?

[PhilHibbs]

My take is that the cult writeups that we have are largely for humans, or humanoids who live in societies with individual responsibilities to the collective and all that goes with it. There was another thread that touched on this recently, about awakened companion animals like alynx and bears and such. Opinions there varied, but this was my opinion.

If awakened companion animals do join cults, I think that the nature of that cult, or at least the relationship of an awakened animal with the cult, will be very different from a civilized human.

Edited October 9, 2022 by PhilHibbs

[David Scott]

3 hours ago, Russ Massey said:

A Yelornan in my Sandheart campaign has successfully completed her unicorn quest, and now wants her mount to initiate into Yelorna. Her argument is that as unicorns are mythically associated with the goddess, and as there are entires tribes of unicorn-riding Yelornans, this should be an common-place and routine thing.

I'm not so certain. Using the guidelines from the otiginal cult write-up in Big Rubble it would seem to me that the unicorn would have to pass the normal tests for initiation (heavily disadvantaged here from the lack of thumbs), and be forbidden from ever progressing beyond initiate status as it is not a human or Aldryami. Am I being too harsh?

I suspect that a bigger problem is that Yelornans must be female and all unicorns are male per the Bestiary...

(Alternatively just add a Unicorn section (regardless of sex): They join automatically by spending a point of POW)

Per the article on Unicorns in the RuneQuest companion shamanism is their preferred religious route if any.

[Russ Massey]

27 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I suspect that a bigger problem is that Yelornans must be female and all unicorns are male per the Bestiary...

(Alternatively just add a Unicorn section (regardless of sex): They join automatically by spending a point of POW)

Per the article on Unicorns in the RuneQuest companion shamanism is their preferred religious route if any.

Males ARE allowed to initiate into Yelorna - they just get -10 to CHA when taking the entry test and cannot progress to runelevel.

[Bill the barbarian]

5 hours ago, Russ Massey said:

A Yelornan in my Sandheart campaign has successfully completed her unicorn quest, and now wants her mount to initiate into Yelorna. Her argument is that as unicorns are mythically associated with the goddess, and as there are entires tribes of unicorn-riding Yelornans, this should be an common-place and routine thing.

 

As GM you will have to weigh whether this is something you are willing to allow. Which seems a little unfair and a bit like a fiat, but really it is just deciding what level of power in a player's hand will overpower your game... MGF should apply to the GM as well as the player and if the GM is in a continual arms race with the players, well, that does not sound like fun to me. I am here for the stories. If the player is not looking to cause the GM grief, if the addition of a very powerful initiate attached to one player (a unicorn with rune spells and RPs and...) does not throw off the games balance (that hated word in Chaosium game circles), hell, if it looks to be fun and all at the table agree that having a initiated unicorn is MGF, go for it. Otherwise (or in any case) lay your cards on the table and explain your worries. This should be of benefit to the table, no matter how it decides.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Bill the barbarian

[David Scott]

14 hours ago, Russ Massey said:

Males ARE allowed to initiate into Yelorna - they just get -10 to CHA when taking the entry test and cannot progress to runelevel.

Males are mentioned specifically in the lay member section, but not the initiate section. My interpretation is that they could become lay members but not initiates.

[PhilHibbs]

Big Rubble p.13:

Quote

V. INITIATE MEMBERSHIP

...Those that are not female humans or female Aldryami subtract 10 from their Charisma for this test.

Seems pretty clear to me.

p.14:

Quote

VII. STAR MAIDENS (RUNE PRIESTESSHOOD)

The great majority of Yelorna’s priestesses (called Star Maidens) are female.

If it's only "the great majority", then there must be a few non-famales.

But this is straying a little from the topic... as I've said before I don't think the cult writeup is suitable for unicorns. I'd certainly draw the line at a unicorn becoming a Unicorn Rider.

Edited October 10, 2022 by PhilHibbs

[Russ Massey]

And anyway, we haven't asked the Unicorn for his views. Maybe he wants to be a Ulerian ;)

[Godlearner]

My criteria is always: Is it cool and fun? If it is, go for it.

[Darius West]

On 10/10/2022 at 4:31 AM, PhilHibbs said:

If awakened companion animals do join cults, I think that the nature of that cult, or at least the relationship of an awakened animal with the cult, will be very different from a civilized human.

Yes.  For example Yelorna is a fertility deity akin to Uleria for unicorns. (jk, but spreading vile rumors is fun🙈🙉🙊)

[Russ Massey]

I think I may rule that the U. can only initiate when his companion achieves rune level, and at that point takes the place of the Allied Spirit. That should keep down the power-gaming aspect a little.

[Godlearner]

7 hours ago, Russ Massey said:

I think I may rule that the U. can only initiate when his companion achieves rune level, and at that point takes the place of the Allied Spirit. That should keep down the power-gaming aspect a little.

From our earliest forays into RQ gaming, our rule of thumb was "Parry the rider, kill the mount." Having the unicorn as an initiate, may actually help it to survive past teh first combat. Honestly having it become an initiate is not a power-gaming at all, at least IMO.

[Russ Massey]

4 hours ago, Godlearner said:

From our earliest forays into RQ gaming, our rule of thumb was "Parry the rider, kill the mount." Having the unicorn as an initiate, may actually help it to survive past teh first combat. Honestly having it become an initiate is not a power-gaming at all, at least IMO.

The rider is already researching the cost of barding....

[Joerg]

7 minutes ago, Russ Massey said:

The rider is already researching the cost of barding....

Is there an equivalent of bikini armor for unicorn barding?

[soltakss]

On 10/9/2022 at 2:24 PM, Russ Massey said:

A Yelornan in my Sandheart campaign has successfully completed her unicorn quest, and now wants her mount to initiate into Yelorna. Her argument is that as unicorns are mythically associated with the goddess, and as there are entires tribes of unicorn-riding Yelornans, this should be an common-place and routine thing.

Yelorna is the goddess of archers, of unicorn riders, of night hunters. A unicorn is none of these.

I don't think that Yelorna suits unicorns as all.

On 10/9/2022 at 2:24 PM, Russ Massey said:

I'm not so certain. Using the guidelines from the otiginal cult write-up in Big Rubble it would seem to me that the unicorn would have to pass the normal tests for initiation (heavily disadvantaged here from the lack of thumbs), and be forbidden from ever progressing beyond initiate status as it is not a human or Aldryami. Am I being too harsh?

Not at all.

The Cult Compendium says:

Quote

Lay Membership
Lay membership is unrestricted to females of the human and Aldryami races. Females from any race untainted by chaos or Darkness, except for dwarfs and dragonewts, may join by passing a test. Males must pass this same test. This test is abstracted as rolling (STR + CHA) x 2 or less on D100. Males must subtract 10 from CHA for this test. Few males attempt to join the cult.

Initiate Membership
Lay members that have served with distinction for at least a year may be invited to become initiates. They must pass a test abstracted as the average of POW + CHA times 5 or less on D100. Those that are not female humans or female Aldryami subtract 10 from their Charisma for this test.

So, a unicorn, being male, can join but subtracts 10 from CHA for the tests.

Similarly, there are penalties for males to become Star Maidens or Star Ladies. It is possible, but difficult.

Of course, the new Cults books might make Yelorna a female-only cult.

On 10/9/2022 at 6:35 PM, David Scott said:

I suspect that a bigger problem is that Yelornans must be female and all unicorns are male per the Bestiary...

Not according to the cult write up in the Cult Compendium,. This surprised me when someone pointed it out to me.

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by soltakss

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

So, a unicorn, being male, can join but subtracts 10 from CHA for the tests.

in addition I would add another 10 cha penalty (-20 in total)

- 10 because male

-10 because not human / aldryami

[PhilHibbs]

5 hours ago, soltakss said:

Yelorna is the goddess of archers, of unicorn riders, of night hunters. A unicorn is none of these.

I don't think that Yelorna gits unicorns as all.

Not at all.

The Cult Compendium says:

So, a unicorn, being male, can join but subtracts 10 from CHA for the tests.

Similarly, there are penalties for males to become Star Maidens or Star Ladies. It is possible, but difficult.

This is crazy. The rules are written for adventurers. Applying them mechanistically to a unicorn is just bizarre.

[svensson]

In the Allied Spirits discussion, it's generally agreed that an Allied Spirit is an initiate of the granting deity, that being in service to a Rune level of the deity 24/7 counts as 'cult service', and that the spirit cannot progress beyond initiate.

Using that as a basis, it's not unreasonable for an intelligent mount to become an initiate of a deity. We have the Lunar Coders' wyvern mount that was raised to initiate status in 7M as an example.

If the mount were an awakened beast, I would say that they're automatically an initiate of their racial spirit [an awakened bison being an initiate of Grandfather Bison, for example] and can choose to initiate into a larger 'more two-legged' cult if they wish. Storm Bull, Waha, Eiritha all are good candidates.

But since unicorns are an intelligent race in and of themselves, we can skip that step and let them initiate into Yelorna automatically with the sacrifice of 1 POW.

[MOB]

9 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

This is crazy. The rules are written for adventurers. Applying them mechanistically to a unicorn is just bizarre.

Unicorns have a whole other set of Unicorn-centric rules for their own progression in the Yelorna cult. Humans could try those too I suppose, but they would be severely limited by their inability to fart rainbows, which I understand is a major component in convincing the examiners. 

[soltakss]

11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

This is crazy. The rules are written for adventurers. Applying them mechanistically to a unicorn is just bizarre.

Crazy and Bizarre - You have just described my Glorantha.

[Russ Massey]

I've decided the Unicorn cannot initiate until his rider achieves runelevel, and at that point the U. is effectively the embodied allied spirit of the rider. That should preven the rider having effectively 2 allied spirits, and not over-power the rider at initiate level.

With the Unicorn effectively ruled out of cave and dungeon scenarios I don't think it becomes a scenario breaker, and the point about thin-skinned mounts being very vulnerable to missile fire is well taken. The rider is already looking at protection spells and casting shield on his mount as well as trying to persuade sceptical Sun Dome armourers of the feasilbility of barding under the unforgiving heat of Yelm.

Should be no real problem in Prax temperatures for at least half of the year, but in Fire season I think it would be a no-no. In real life I assume barding was only put in in preparation for battle, but limits the possibility of it being useful in most RQ encounters.

[Godlearner]

28 minutes ago, Russ Massey said:

The rider is already looking at protection spells and casting shield on his mount as well as trying to persuade sceptical Sun Dome armourers of the feasilbility of barding under the unforgiving heat of Yelm.

Don'r forget that even if it is not initiated, it can still caast spirit spells and there is a possibility that there are other cult options for it other than Yelorna.

[Russ Massey]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

Don'r forget that even if it is not initiated, it can still caast spirit spells and there is a possibility that there are other cult options for it other than Yelorna.

Yes, it already knows Firehorn, Ignite, Light, Spirit Screen and Binding Enchantment (so likely not a Yelmalio sympathiser then) - generated randomly from the summon ancestior spell list.

[svensson]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Crazy and Bizarre - You have just described my Glorantha.

Well, yeah.... That probably all of us, really

[svensson]

5 minutes ago, Russ Massey said:

Yes, it already knows Firehorn, Ignite, Light, Spirit Screen and Binding Enchantment (so likely not a Yelmalio sympathiser then) - generated randomly from the summon ancestior spell list.

'Not a Yelmalio sympathizer'

Well, givin' all them-thar girl-chillin' high falutin' ideers jus' ain't raht....