Looking for a god of Liberation

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

Death rune is same as severance. I view it in that context.

So, Fertility Rune is "pro" slavery?

I see Stasis / Mobility and Harmony / Disorder as more relevant, but the Runes are fuzzy and everybody views them differently.

[Eff]

4 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

So, Fertility Rune is "pro" slavery?

I see Stasis / Mobility and Harmony / Disorder as more relevant, but the Runes are fuzzy and everybody views them differently.

Why would it be? @Godlearneris talking about Death used as a transient thing to cut bonds and ties, rather than Death being a consistent symbol of freedom. I'd even argue that it's entirely appropriate for Death to be present at both ends, shearing away the ties of previous social existence in order to render the enslaved person symbolically less than fully human, partially an object, but also breaking the ties of enslavement and producing freedom. 

[radmonger]

Some Lunar philosophers claim that the true god of liberation is Gark the Calm. Only his magic can truly free the souls of those who labour. All lesser forms of liberation leave the job the slave was doing undone. Which only requires someone else to work the mine or plantation; the quantity of freedom does not increase.

Admittedly, zombification is currently an expensive process involving imported exotic magical specialists. Many of whom have fervent, and frankly unsavory, views. However, the College has made considerable progress towards the goal of training locally-sourced practitioners. Meanwhile, even a small fraction of zombified workers turns out to have a salutary effect on the enthusiasm to which the remainder approach their assigned tasks.  While not full liberation, this has decreased the number of those required to perform such spiritually-degrading heavy labour considerably.

Sadly, that doesn't stop the local Yanafal-knockoffs talking ignorantly about 'undeath'. I hear in some cases they have attacked plantations, and slaughtered everyone working the fields, zombie or not. Apparently, they call that _liberation_.

[Eff]

13 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Some Lunar philosophers claim that the true god of liberation is Gark the Calm.

Impressive work on their part intuiting the existence of a god that seems to have a cult in Fonrit and maybe Umathela. 

[dumuzid]

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

In my game, the PCs are actively trying to fight off an Afadjani invasion. So, this would work.

Then you should look into the Zaranistangi, aka the Yranian Leapers, who combine Blue Moon magic with the worship of Storm powers and Tolat, and claim descent from the Blue Moon and the god of the star Orlanthi associate with Mastagos.  Some of them appeared in Afadjann around the same time the Red Moon was reborn in Peloria, and seem to have wielded the same counter-slavery magic the Artmal and Blue Moon artifacts hold, but on a reliable and repeatable basis.  They led a war of liberation in Afadjann that saw whole slave populations freed of Ompalam and Darleester magic and brought the Afadjanni slaving system to its knees, before they mysteriously disappeared back into the otherworlds.

[Godlearner]

13 minutes ago, Eff said:

a god that seems to have a cult in Fonrit and maybe Umathela. 

I believe it is prohibited even in Fonrit as it is a prevertion of the basic tenant of freedom through slavery. Even though he is associated with Chaos, Omplam does not suffer other chaotics. as far as I know.

[Godlearner]

2 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

Then you should look into the Zaranistangi, aka the Yranian Leapers, who combine Blue Moon magic with the worship of Storm powers and Tolat, and claim descent from the Blue Moon and the god of the star Orlanthi associate with Mastagos.  Some of them appeared in Afadjann around the same time the Red Moon was reborn in Peloria, and seem to have wielded the same counter-slavery magic the Artmal and Blue Moon artifacts hold, but on a reliable and repeatable basis.

Interesting, do you have a source for this?

[dumuzid]

4 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

Interesting, do you have a source for this?

There's a few big blurbs of Zaranistangi lore on p. 429 of the Guide to Glorantha, and the war of the Yranian Leapers is covered in the last paragraph of p. 553 and the first page of p. 554 of the same book.  There's more information on the Zaranistangi in the sections of the Guide on Teshnos and the Gods World.

[dumuzid]

24 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

I believe it is prohibited even in Fonrit as it is a prevertion of the basic tenant of freedom through slavery. Even though he is associated with Chaos, Omplam does not suffer other chaotics. as far as I know.

Fonrit's the heartland of Gark worship, the city Shun Mun is entirely owned by the cult and corpses are sent there from all over fonrit to serve in Gark's temple.

[Godlearner]

6 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

Fonrit's the heartland of Gark worship, the city Shun Mun is entirely owned by the cult and corpses are sent there from all over fonrit to serve in Gark's temple.

Ok, but what is his relationship to Omplam? Should I open a new thread for it?

[dumuzid]

Just now, Godlearner said:

Ok, but what is his relationship to Omplam? Should I open a new thread for it?

Ompalam is the source of the Fonritian social system, as interpreted by Garangordos and his successors, then augmented by Fonrit's experience with the God Learners.  I would expect that Gark's relationship with Ompalam is the same as that of every other cult accepted by the janns as legitimate, that Gark is one of Ompalam's slaves.

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I see Stasis / Mobility and Harmony / Disorder as more relevant

Mobility in particular, I would say.

Ompalam has Harmony though, so it’s at least not fundamentally opposed to slavery.

[radmonger]

1 hour ago, Eff said:

Impressive work on their part intuiting the existence of a god that seems to have a cult in Fonrit and maybe Umathela. 

Dormal's voyages were about 50 years ago, plenty of time for people to hear stories and Get Ideas. 

[Jeff]

On 10/13/2022 at 2:29 PM, Nick Brooke said:

OK, you're coming at this from the "If you don't get a specific Rune spell for it, it doesn't really matter much to the cult" perspective. Jeff has explained why that's a mistake, esp. re: Yelmalio, proud provider of exactly zero Phalanx-related Rune magics since the year dot.

It may be the wrong way to approach the question. But YGWV, of course. From a fan perspective, I'd look to Beat-pot Aelwrin as a prominent slave rebel and liberator, much like Spartacus. (Except he's a Mirror Universe take on Spartacus, who joined the Roman Legions and eventually rose to the top)

Beat-pot was recorded for having a great deal of bitterness towards how he was treated as a kitchen slave, and although he was completely devoted to the Red Goddess (through Jar-eel), he had notable contempt and righteous disdain for much of the Lunar elite and nobility. As the right-hand of Jar-eel the Razoress, much of that Lunar elite and nobility tried to curry favor with Beat-Pot, which just reinforced his contempt and disdain for them.

[Zit]

You may consider that following a god is a kind of slavery as well, in which case Daka Fal may be a candidate ?

[Godlearner]

7 hours ago, Zit said:

You may consider that following a god is a kind of slavery as well, in which case Daka Fal may be a candidate ?

Initiation is a bond between oneself and a higher power. An agreement sure, slavery not really. unless you consider every form of contract to be slavery.

[Darius West]

On 10/14/2022 at 4:31 AM, Godlearner said:

Looking for a diety (spirit) associated with Liberation, Freedom or anti sclavery for my campaign. What are the choices? I do not think that a major diety like Orlanth or Humakt works.

One of the main things you will need to do to fight off Ompalam is to destroy his Slave Bracelets.  That requires a strength of 45 according to the old rules.  As Orlanth has Odayla as an associate, Bear's Strength is available to him which double's base Strength.  Orlanth also has all those Mastakos teleport spells for conducting guerilla warfare.  Not to mention that control over weather is a huge advantage in a battle, and thieving is very useful in asymetric warfare. I think you are too quick to dismiss Orlanth. 

By comparison, the Lunars mainly have spells for addling your mind, and madness isn't liberty, but a grim and endless prison. 

[PhilHibbs]

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

One of the main things you will need to do to fight off Ompalam is to destroy his Slave Bracelets.  That requires a strength of 45 according to the old rules.  As Orlanth has Odayla as an associate, Bear's Strength is available to him which double's base Strength.

And it's stackable with the Strength spirit spell (+8), so if you have 16 base STR then that's 40 vs 45 which is getting up to a decent chance with an augment.

[Godlearner]

8 hours ago, Darius West said:

By comparison, the Lunars mainly have spells for addling your mind, and madness isn't liberty, but a grim and endless prison. 

Slavery is as much a confinment of ones mind as it is confindment of ones body. In at least my world, Ompalam's Slave Bracelets cannot be overcomed with Strength alone. As to Orlanth, if memory serves since I am too lazy to look it up at the moment, I believe Ompalam had subdued him and he is now a member of of his pantheon.

[Darius West]

16 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Slavery is as much a confinment of ones mind as it is confindment of ones body. In at least my world, Ompalam's Slave Bracelets cannot be overcomed with Strength alone. As to Orlanth, if memory serves since I am too lazy to look it up at the moment, I believe Ompalam had subdued him and he is now a member of of his pantheon.

I think you are making problems for yourself by overthinking things.  Any claims Ompalam makes against Orlanth are likely very geographically limited, and not true in the longer term.  Admittedly they are almost certainly dealing with a watered down and inferior Malkioni version of Orlanth that lacks all the associated cults, subcults and thunder brothers.

[Eff]

Generally, in the real world, the internal perspective and folkloric memory of slavery focuses on the ability of the enslaved person to trick the slaver into setting them free, rather than through becoming swole enough to bust open a manacle. I would suggest that Gloranthan contexts probably could stand to draw from that as an inspiration. 

[Godlearner]

11 hours ago, Darius West said:

Admittedly they are almost certainly dealing with a watered down and inferior Malkioni version of Orlanth that lacks all the associated cults, subcults and thunder brothers.

Right, the real version of Orlanth 😈

At least the version which exists in my Glorantha at the location where the game is taking place (closer to Pamaltela than Genertela). Orlanth is just not the answer for what I seek. I pretty much have it figured out. Will likely do a short write up post it here, as soon as I get a chance.

[Godlearner]

2 hours ago, Eff said:

Generally, in the real world, the internal perspective and folkloric memory of slavery focuses on the ability of the enslaved person to trick the slaver into setting them free, rather than through becoming swole enough to bust open a manacle. I would suggest that Gloranthan contexts probably could stand to draw from that as an inspiration. 

You are quite correct. I see the path you mention working as somethign more akin to Eurmal type aspect with slaves being "secret" initiates for a long time before becoming free. The path I am looking at would require pretty much self initiation which would likely lead to a rebelion.

[PhilHibbs]

5 hours ago, Eff said:

Generally, in the real world, the internal perspective and folkloric memory of slavery focuses on the ability of the enslaved person to trick the slaver into setting them free, rather than through becoming swole enough to bust open a manacle. I would suggest that Gloranthan contexts probably could stand to draw from that as an inspiration. 

Depends on the story, if it's Samson or Cú Chulainn or Arnie's Conan then maybe he does bust his bonds, but you're right that there are plenty of other more interesting options than brute force.

[Godlearner]

Lets see what you think of this

.Cult - Vilne Vollya.docx