Gloranthan Classics on DTRPG

[frogspawner]

Yes! And you could call it, oh, I don't know ... Glyphmaster?

Isn't it actually called BRP?

Or what essential aspects of RQ2 can't be satisfactorily modelled with various BRP options?

[Guest Vile Traveller]

I haven't tried, but you could probably model RQ2 using BRP. Well, maybe. There are quite a few differences once you start looking into it. But the point of Glyphmaster (working title) is just to provide something that can be used RAW to run RQ2 games (like Rick's Gloranthan Classics).

Okay, the real point is that it's great fun to write it, but still.

[wbcreighton]

So now I see that currently 4 of the top 11 best selling small press items are the Gloranthan Classics publications. What were you waiting for Rick ??

[Rick Meints]

I'm not sure what you mean. :-)

[RobP]

So now I see that currently 4 of the top 11 best selling small press items are the Gloranthan Classics publications. What were you waiting for Rick ??

Hardly surprising. I have all of Ricks stuff in hardback - all very good quality and use it to save my RQ2 originals from wear and to plug the gaps in my RQ2 originals set. When I get some more money together I will probably buy the PDF's so that I can use them with the Fantasy Grounds virtual tabletop.

I think what these sales say is that there is a real demand for Gloranthan supplements in general and Chaoism RQ2 in particular. I just wish all the copyright holders could bury their axes and get on and re-release an updated RQ2 rulebook and all the original supplements. Once they finished that they can then get to work on some new original material - I don't want much I'm sure all this would sell like hot-cakes.

Right now I get a choice of using my RQ2 rules - I'm one of the fortunate ones that have access to them - or try to adapt BRP - which I'm not sure works very well for RQ2 or alternatively try Heroquest which from what I hear sounds like too much of a departure from RQ2 or try Mongoose's RQII(4) which I have heard good things about, though I'm not too sure how well it deals with modelling Glorantha.

I've only been waiting since the late '80's for an RQ2 resurgance, but instead all we got was RQ3 - which I considered a disaster - just seemed completely soul less to me - probably because Glorantha got removed and the other pretenders that are out now.

Don't get me wrong about BRP, its a good system, but its hardly 'Basic' compared to RQ2, nor is it RQ2. (The BRP that came with RQ2 was Basic!)

RobP - Still waiting....

http://AncientArmies.co.uk

Edited September 13, 2010 by RobP

[Rungard]

I'd prefer to see any scenarios-reprint than any rules reprint. I think we have too many different rulebooks and too few scenarios! Most of all, I'd like to see NEW scenarios printed! :-D

Another issue completely different:

How is the cult of Irripi Ontor described in "Cults of Prax"? I'm looking for a description of this cult (as an independent cult, apart from the Seven Mothers), but I can find none...

[GianniVacca]

Just as a side note-- RQ2 is not only for grognards. We've been happily introducing new people to the hobby using RQ2 for years now.

[soltakss]

Another issue completely different:

How is the cult of Irripi Ontor described in "Cults of Prax"? I'm looking for a description of this cult (as an independent cult, apart from the Seven Mothers), but I can find none...

It isn't.

Irrippi Ontor is described as part of the Seven Mothers Cult in Cults of Prax, in the Hero Wars Rokeplaying in Glorantha book and in one of the the HeroQuest Imperial Lunar Handbook supplements (I can't remember which one). The description in the HeroQuest supplement is interesting, but radically different from a RuneQuest Gloranthan cult. It can be converted to something more like a RQ cult, but it takes a bit of work.

Since Irrippi Ontor is Third Age and Third Age Glorantha is HeroQuest, I wouldn't expect a RQ version of the cult to ever appear. I have a fan conversion of the spells and skills http://www.soltakss.com/hwconv02.html but that doesn't include the newest version and needs the original to add detail.

Your best bet would be to get Imperial Lunar Handbook I and II and convert the cults on the fly for NPCs or do a full conversion for PCs.

[sdavies2720]

...I think what these sales say is that there is a real demand for Gloranthan supplements in general and Chaoism RQ2 in particular. I just wish all the copyright holders could bury their axes and get on and re-release an updated RQ2 rulebook and all the original supplements. Once they finished that they can then get to work on some new original material - I don't want much I'm sure all this would sell like hot-cakes.

I think that Mongoose is finding something similar. In their "Signs and Portents" they always put in a pie chart of where the bulk of their time is going. In S&P84 (Sep 2010) it was:

• a little over half on Wraith Recon (new setting for MRQII)
  
• about 30% on RuneQuest II
  
• about 20% on Elric (MRQII)
  

If your math is as good as mine, that means RuneQuest is taking up more than all their time. Now, much of this is driven by release schedules, but it sounds like MRQ is working for them.

[Edit: I'm not trying to say MRQII is the same as RQ2, just that there does seem to be a real demand out there for BRP-based games, especially if they can be well packaged and executed, as RQ2 was]

Steve

[lawrence.whitaker]

...I think what these sales say is that there is a real demand for Gloranthan supplements in general and Chaoism RQ2 in particular. I just wish all the copyright holders could bury their axes and get on and re-release an updated RQ2 rulebook and all the original supplements.

What makes you think there are axes to be buried? There's no rancour between Issaries and Chaosium; Issaries licenses RQ and Glorantha to Mongoose and Moon Design simultaneously. Mongoose and Moon co-operate heavily on projects by sharing information and ensuring consistency of product across the two lines, even though they're for different game systems. You have an updated RQ2 rulebook in the form of MRQII. Moon Design has the Classics line that has reprinted a great deal of the original Chaosium RQ2 material.

What I think you're really asking for is for Chaosium to republish RuneQuest and Gloranthan material. I honestly don't see that happening. The license and copyright belongs to Issaries, for one thing, and, for another, I don't think Chaosium has the appetite to return to something it relinquished 25 years ago. If it did have, Charlie and Greg would no doubt have hammered something out by now. The world has moved on...

If you want to replicate the old RQ2 feel you can do so with BRP. I know that Gringle's Pawnshop has its Glyphmaster project underway, which aims to produce an OGL set of rules that are, essentially, RQ2 with the Gloranthan references removed. So, if you consider what's out there between Mongoose, Moon, Chaosium BRP and now Glyphmaster, there's an abundance of riches. More Glorantha material, that is broadly cross-compatible with whatever system you want - any of the RQ variants, BRP and/or HeroQuest - has (probably) been produced in the past five years than at any point in RQ and Glorantha's history.

[RobP]

What I think you're really asking for is for Chaosium to republish RuneQuest and Gloranthan material.

I guess that is what I really mean

I had presumed that because the original team haven't collaborated in such a long time, that there may have been 'issues' - I guess not.

From an RQ standpoint there is a lot published right now, but I'm guessing many people focus on just one version of the RQ/HQ ruleset and stick with that. Which means that to get the full benefit of all the material lots of tweaks have to be made.

I think it would be much better for everyone involved to try and produce one ruleset, so that all the Gloranthan material is released for that set, thus eliminating any potential incompatibilies. Plus, the publishers could tweak all the existing materials for this new ruleset and get ready to reap the bonnaza! I suspect it would attract many more people too, seeing a coherent system with many supplements available for it.

It could just be me, but I don't think the current fragmented approach is a good thing for RQ. I suspect for newbies it causes more than a bit of confusion! About the only benefit of the fragmented approach is that if a company goes down - heaven forbid - material will still be available from the other companies.

I love Rick's books, but I suspect that owning the RQ2 ruleset makes them all the better. What about people that can't get hold of the original RQ2 ruleset? There are significant differences between RQ2 and RQ3. Don't know about MRQ2, but I guess this is substantially different too.

I was being naive to expect Chaoism to carry on as they were 20 odd years ago, but one can only dream

Also, as another poster said, some more released adventures or campaigns wouldn't go amiss!

RobP

http://AncientArmies.co.uk

[lawrence.whitaker]

I think it would be much better for everyone involved to try and produce one ruleset, so that all the Gloranthan material is released for that set, thus eliminating any potential incompatibilies. Plus, the publishers could tweak all the existing materials for this new ruleset and get ready to reap the bonnaza! I suspect it would attract many more people too, seeing a coherent system with many supplements available for it.

But, as I said, the world's moved on. You can't un-invent HeroQuest and a lot of old RQ players have embraced it wholeheartedly because it does emulate some of the epic magic and feats found in Glorantha with greater ease than RQ can. OTOH, many RQ fans remain fond of the grittiness of RQ and can't get to grips with HeroQuest - so which ruleset would you use as the base or inspiration? Also, bear in mind this: Greg, whilst being interested in RQ (any version) feels that HQ far better reflects his version of Glorantha, and as its creator, he would have to feel comfortable with, and sanction, this 'One System to Bind Them All'.

Revising all the existing material to bring it into line with the One System would also take forever - meaning that new material would take a back-burner. And how many people really would spend money on revised supplements? I'm not sure there is a bonanza to be reaped.

It could just be me, but I don't think the current fragmented approach is a good thing for RQ. I suspect for newbies it causes more than a bit of confusion! About the only benefit of the fragmented approach is that if a company goes down - heaven forbid - material will still be available from the other companies.

Well you're right there: it IS confusing. The best we can do is keep spelling out the differences and pros and cons. But surely introducing yet another system, that makes all others redundant and useless, would add even more to the confusion?

OTOH, the fragmented approach has had the benefit of a lot of new material, with very different focuses, appearing in recent years. And, to be honest, a lot of it can be stripped of stats and used with whatever system you prefer to use. Its not difficult to convert RQ materials to HQ, and HQ materials are almost stat-free, so I don't think the fragmentation has harmed Glorantha at all. I think its strengthened it.

I love Rick's books, but I suspect that owning the RQ2 ruleset makes them all the better. What about people that can't get hold of the original RQ2 ruleset? There are significant differences between RQ2 and RQ3. Don't know about MRQ2, but I guess this is substantially different too.

I won't go into MRQII's differences here, but the old RQ2 from Chaosium can still be got for not hideous sums of money. I recently paid $40 CAD for an almost mint boxed edition of the American printing of RQ2. And, if the Gringles Pawnshop team produce their OGL Glyphmaster, then there'll be a free version of RQ2 available, solving this particular issue quite neatly.

I was being naive to expect Chaoism to carry on as they were 20 odd years ago, but one can only dream

Alas, I think so. But its great to dream, and great fun to speculate.

Also, as another poster said, some more released adventures or campaigns wouldn't go amiss!

Watch out for 'Pavis Rises' then...

[Trifletraxor]

I had presumed that because the original team haven't collaborated in such a long time, that there may have been 'issues' - I guess not.

Biggest issues would be copyright issues, but Greg was never fond of RQ for his Glorantha, even killed RQ4 dead in the tracks because of it.

I love Rick's books, but I suspect that owning the RQ2 ruleset makes them all the better. What about people that can't get hold of the original RQ2 ruleset? There are significant differences between RQ2 and RQ3. Don't know about MRQ2, but I guess this is substantially different too.

eBay is your friend! Or BRP with the correct options. MRQ2 would be even more different.

OTOH, the fragmented approach has had the benefit of a lot of new material, with very different focuses, appearing in recent years. And, to be honest, a lot of it can be stripped of stats and used with whatever system you prefer to use. Its not difficult to convert RQ materials to HQ, and HQ materials are almost stat-free, so I don't think the fragmentation has harmed Glorantha at all. I think its strengthened it.

I'm going to buy Kingdom of Sartar and the Sartar Companion when it's out and give it a go. But I am sceptic. I've tried converting some of the older Hero Wars scenarios before without luck. The type of play was just not what RQ is meant for. And HQ Glorantha is so monumentally different to the "old" Glorantha.

Watch out for 'Pavis Rises' then...

I'll be giving MRQ another chance when it's out.

SGL.

[RosenMcStern]

I think it would be much better for everyone involved to try and produce one ruleset, so that all the Gloranthan material is released for that set, thus eliminating any potential incompatibilies. Plus, the publishers could tweak all the existing materials for this new ruleset and get ready to reap the bonnaza! I suspect it would attract many more people too, seeing a coherent system with many supplements available for it.

It has already been done. This system is called HeroQuest, it is streamlined, and a lot of supplements were published for it. You can judge by yourself if it was a good move or not.

I love Rick's books, but I suspect that owning the RQ2 ruleset makes them all the better. What about people that can't get hold of the original RQ2 ruleset? There are significant differences between RQ2 and RQ3. Don't know about MRQ2, but I guess this is substantially different too.

Honestly, I do not see any real problem in running the old Gloranthan classics with BRP. You have to choose the right mix of options to emulate RQ2, but I do not think it is so difficult.

Besides, using the current, in-print version of BRP has one great, unsurpassable advantage over any RQ2 retro-clone. It allows you to insert into it, seamlessly, the myriad of advanced options that have been developed in the last thirty years. And I stress it: allows, not forces.

Admit it: would you play RQ2 by the rules, now, or would you houserule a lot of stuff? Is it not better to have a usable corpus of customizable rules that can more or less emulate the "beloved system of the seventies", rather than a verbatim copy of it where you have to tweak every other paragraph?

[Baron]

I

Admit it: would you play RQ2 by the rules, now, or would you houserule a lot of stuff? Is it not better to have a usable corpus of customizable rules that can more or less emulate the "beloved system of the seventies", rather than a verbatim copy of it where you have to tweak every other paragraph?

You make a very good point. However, I think there is something to be said for being able to hand a complete rules set, *for the game you're going to be playing,* to the players. And that's not always an easy thing to do under any version of any system.

'Admit it,' --

Handing the yellow brick of BRP to a player, then saying, "We'll be using options blah-blah-blah-blah, but not options blah-blah-blah, just read up on it," is a bit of a big ask, as well as confusing. Also opens the door to players coming back with, "But gee whiz, options blah-blah-blah-blah look SO COOL, can't we use those?"

I don't have all the answers that are best for everyone, and I think fragmenting the consumer base is usually a bad thing. And I like having the big BRP book. But I can see the other perspectives, too.

[frogspawner]

...and I think fragmenting the consumer base is usually a bad thing.

Right. But I think the Big Gold Book is actually an attempt to de-fragment - by drawing together the rules for all the BRP-related games that were out there - and then hoping a consistent 'concensus' version would appear. And what options-set are these coming books going to be using?

[skull]

I agree a runequest clone would be awesome! And i think it would make access, and new material available for Chaosiums classic Runequest2. I would definitely be interested in contributing to such a project as long as it is not a problem for Chaosium.

I would prefer Chaosium was involved in such a project ,as i prefer to support Chaosium. i think it could be a good way to get others into BRP as well , i am constantly in search of Chaosium RQ2 material adventures, monsters etc. i have lots of Runequest 3 material but it has to be converted which can be a pain!

Now we need a clone of RQ2.

[skull]

I Have Vol. 2 Griffin Mountain , 4 1/2 stars out of 5 the book is huge tons of detail, loads of stats for the locals, monsters, adventures. i want the other books but i have yet to find them available any where. ARE the Gloranthan classics currently out of print, was it a limited print number?

Issaries has now published some Gloranthan Classics as PDFs on Drive Thru RPG:

Vol. 1: Pavis & Big Rubble

Vol. 2: Griffin Mountain

Vol. 3: Cult Compendium

Vol. 4: Borderlands & Beyond

and also Stafford Library: Heortling Mythology.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=79

[skull]

I prefer the book format of the Glorantha Classics, PDF version would be my last choice!

[RosenMcStern]

Rick Meints could have some copies left. Contact Moon Design directly.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

I think there is something to be said for being able to hand a complete rules set, *for the game you're going to be playing,* to the players.

That's the whole point of the thing, there. I expect you can pretty much run the Gloranthan Classics with the BGB (but I think you'd have to do a lot of small conversions of SRs and bonuses and whatnot), but it's a bit much to ask of a bunch of players who might never have played the game before to go through the BGB picking out the right options. I fully expect players who are introduced to the game via a good bit of Griffin Mountain or The Big Rubble to develop an interest in BRP. Expanding the customer base and all that.