Classic Runequest II Chaosium could it be reprinted with a different name?

[Trifletraxor]

GlyphMaster will be a nice addition to the family!

[seneschal]

GlyphMaster will be a nice addition to the family!

But if the last applicable post was four year ago, is GlyphMaster still a going deal?  Especially since RQ 6 is out?

[Darkholme]

I saw a d100 RQ2e SRD kicking around somewhere, so someone completed a similar project, if nothing else.

[Mankcam]

I think RQ6 is the future of RQ, but good luck with this project in any case!

[nclarke]

The D100 SRD that is most commonly seen in the wild is based on the Mongoose version known as MRQI. It was released as OGL and someone stripped it down into an SRD and that got turned into Openquest and modified again into OQ2. RQ has a complex history through RQ, RQ2, RQ3 (produced by Avalon Hill and Games Workshop) RQ4 (which was never released AFAIK), MRQI, OQ1, OQ2, MRQII, and it then diverged into Legend and RQ6.

[Darkholme]

The D100 SRD that is most commonly seen in the wild is based on the Mongoose version known as MRQI. It was released as OGL and someone stripped it down into an SRD and that got turned into Openquest and modified again into OQ2. RQ has a complex history through RQ, RQ2, RQ3 (produced by Avalon Hill and Games Workshop) RQ4 (which was never released AFAIK), MRQI, OQ1, OQ2, MRQII, and it then diverged into Legend and RQ6.

I'm aware of the various RQ titles and where they diverged, I'm not describing MRQI, or Legend, or OpenQuest.

 

Here is the project I'm talking about.

 

(Disclaimer, I only skimmed it - retro gaming isn't really my thing, I too think the current versions of the system are generally improvements over the old ones, but that's not to say that nothing that got dropped would be worth reevaluating and considering reincorporating or taking ideas from for future iterations of the system).

[smjn]

The D100 SRD is also available on this site It may be based on MRQI but really it is a light version remake of the Chaosium RQ 2nd ed. I think it's an excellent resource for people who want to use classic Gloranthan material but don't have RQ2, whether they want to run them straight or convert to a more recent version of RuneQuest/BRP.

[Atgxtg]

I locwed RQ2, and there are some aspects of it that I prefer over RQ3, but I think Rosen raised some good points. 

 

Much of RQ2's popularity was due to Glorantha, (Cults of Prax was a big part of RQ2), and removing Glorantha from the game takes away much of it's appeal. And I'd say RQ3's rules were mostly better than RQ2.

 

I do think a streamlined version of RQ2, RQ3, or a hybrid could work as a alterantive to or as a introduction to BRP. Yes, I know there is a streamlined introductory set of BRP rules, but, frankly, I think that as BRP is closer to CoC/Stormbringer/Worlds of Wonder that RQ, it will strike out with some players. 

 

I know I'd be much more likely to run or play RQ2/3 than BRP.

[clarence]

Comparison with computer games: The latest [insert your favorite computer game] is superior in graphics, realism, controls, number of levels and so on. Still many people love playing Pac Man, Space Invaders and Marble Madness. And I don't think there is a simple answer why they/we do that. But I think we're slowly realizing that computer games, as well as role playing games, are a new part of our Culture (with a capital C). We need new games, new ideas, new images - but we also need to look back, take care of the old games/ideas/images, see what we lost along the way, appreciate simplicity, and see what we can learn from the pioneers.

[seneschal]

As games progress from edition to edition they tend to lose their elegant simplicity.  The nifty new additions of each version eventually snowball into an intimidating pile of options capable of baffling prospective GMs and scaring off new players.  I can't speak about early RuneQuest, but Champions began as a thin staple-bound paperback pamphlet accompanied by a similarly thin campaign book.  By 5th edition, Hero System was a tome capable of literally stopping small-caliber bullets.  Sixth edition consisted of two massive encyclopedia-like volumes.  Classic Traveller began as the "three little black books" and wound up a library of expansions, maps, board games, and deck plans.  The appeal of the "old-school renaissance" for D&D enthusiasts was a switch from a game that required a stack of hardbacks to a set of rules that weighed in at 100 pages or less.  For those players, all the accumulated bells and whistles weren't worth it anymore.  Basic Roleplaying used to be a 16-page booklet.  It is now 400 pages.

[Darkholme]

Not all new games are massive. I've seen some that weigh in under 60 pages.

 

But yeah, the norm for RPG books these days is around 400 pages, with not all of that being rules - prebuilt NPCs, selectable options, etc - and the actual "rules" are typically 100-150 pages of the 400 page book. I can't see myself paying $40-$60 for an RPG book with less than 100 pages of content - but I'm not one of those gamers looking for really really slim rules.

 

I like to see the rules for the core mechanic, skills, character creation, and combat weighing in at a low page count, and then lots of prebuilt content and character options.

[Atgxtg]

 Basic Roleplaying used to be a 16-page booklet.  It is now 400 pages.

 

Yeah, but it really ins't Basic Roleplaying. Even Jason said that he wished they would have let him change the name. It's probably the least "Basic" RPG that Chaosium has ever printed. More like Comprehensive Roleplaying. 

 

And let's not forget that modern RPGs use larger font's. Nobody's used 8 point font (or smaller) in a rulebook in years. 

 

I really think a 30-50 page streamlined version is possible. Especially it if has no setting, or tried to just one setting. 

[Darkholme]

Yeah, but it really ins't Basic Roleplaying. Even Jason said that he wished they would have let him change the name. It's probably the least "Basic" RPG that Chaosium has ever printed. More like Comprehensive Roleplaying.

It is a somewhat ironic name for an RPG book with so many rules.

 

Like the 48 page BRP Quickstart rules, which are free, and cover the rules in 30 pages?

 

Okay, 8 is a little on the small side. But once you get to the font size and white space employed in 4e and (a bit less so) 5e D&D, I just feel like I'm being cheated, like, "They're charging me for a 400 page book, but they're only giving me 200 pages of content" cheated. A viewpoint that makes me inclined to buy very few of their products, since I go into the purchase thinking "I'm being greatly overcharged for this much content, the content had better damn well be fantastic". Needless to say, I bought very few 4e books.

[MatteoN]

Okay, 8 is a little on the small side. But once you get to the font size and white space employed in 4e and (a bit less so) 5e D&D, I just feel like I'm being cheated, like, "They're charging me for a 400 page book, but they're only giving me 200 pages of content" cheated.

For me it's even worse when a large part of the text is composed of supposedly inspirational "fluff" (in my experience often just awful prose) and accounts of what must happen in my game, according to someone who is neither the GM nor a player in my game.

[Darkholme]

For me it's even worse when a large part of the text is composed of supposedly inspirational "fluff" (in my experience often just awful prose) and accounts of what must happen in my game, according to someone who is neither the GM nor a player in my game.

Ugh; yeah. That might as well just be empty white space. Useless. Same with endless droning on with unneeded or overly long examples, or–the thing that drives me crazy with Pathfinder content, character options that are absolutely awful. They're not useful to anyone who wants to be at all effective, they're an unwanted surprise to newbies, and they only serve to block the development of good options in the future. Annoying clutter to sift through to get to the real content, which gives the developers the unfortunate impression of "We've Already Adequately Covered this Niche". These are my pet peeves in RPGs.

 

Real Content™ is the reason I buy RPG books, not white space and filler text.

 

But when I get a concisely written, well designed chunk of RPG content, with fluff that's useful content rather than worthless filler, using a reasonable font size and amount of white space; oh man–that's the stuff.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

But if the last applicable post was four year ago, is GlyphMaster still a going deal?  Especially since RQ 6 is out?

I still tinker with GLYPHMASTER™ from time to time, but it's a low priority: http://gringlespawnshop.proboards.com/board/8/glyphmaster

 

For the rest of this year I will be busy with BLUEHOLME™, then I will get back to AEONS™ in 2015. But GLYPHMASTER™ is a sort of little treat that gives me guilty pleasure when I'm in danger of RPG burnout. I'll get there eventually. 

 

Yep, that's an old post you're linking to there, Darkholme. The D100II SRD is in version 1.3, which will probably be the last one. You could use it to write gateway-type scenarios if you know the ins and outs of the OGL. It's here on the site, too, as smjn says, as well as in the downloads section on my blog: http://dreamscapedesign.net/downloads/

 

That's a cool user name, by the way, reminds me of a game. What was it, now ... ? 

[Darkholme]

Yep, that's an old post you're linking to there, Darkholme. The D100II SRD is in version 1.3, which will probably be the last one. You could use it to write gateway-type scenarios if you know the ins and outs of the OGL. It's here on the site, too, as smjn says, as well as in the downloads section on my blog: http://dreamscapedesign.net/downloads/

Ah. my bad. My point still stands though, that it exists.

 

I have no idea what game Darkholme reminds you of. I happen to be a longtime fan of X-Men Comics & Cartoons, and Darkholme is Mystique's surname (Raven Darkholme), and it was a name I just always thought was cool. It's on the list of surnames I've been considering for about a decade (I've never really liked any part of my legal name, and have long considered changing it, but have yet to come up with the money to make it a reality or decide on what my new name would be).

[Charles VA]

Maybe I shouldn't say this, considering the nerd rage against it, but I used RQ2 (Chaosium) to introduce, with success, numerous groups of players (new players) to gaming in general. The Chaosium version has served me well with a major campaign being played out every 5 years or so with the current one being stalled only by 1500 miles of distance between group and GM. This includes Gloranthan, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms and homebrewed worlds. I'm not so sure about the defunct nature of those rules or their codependency on one world being the backdrop. It has been said by one of the best storytellers I ever had the pleasure of gaming with, its all about the GM not the system. The system can help but it is not the main determining factor in anything beyond the flavor.

 

Ok, so how much hate/rage do I get for going against the party line.

[lawrence.whitaker]

None from me.

 

RQ2 is still and excellent set of rules. And your friend was right: it's not the rules that make the game, but those who are using them.

 

I agree with you 100%.

[Charles VA]

Wow, did not expect that. Thank you.

[seneschal]

^{I agree.  A creative GM and enthusiastic players trump game system every time.  You can have a lot of fun despite a clunky rules set, and award-winning rules don't guarantee a good game.}

[p_clapham]

Not all new games are massive. I've seen some that weigh in under 60 pages.

 

But yeah, the norm for RPG books these days is around 400 pages, with not all of that being rules - prebuilt NPCs, selectable options, etc - and the actual "rules" are typically 100-150 pages of the 400 page book. I can't see myself paying $40-$60 for an RPG book with less than 100 pages of content - but I'm not one of those gamers looking for really really slim rules.

 

I like to see the rules for the core mechanic, skills, character creation, and combat weighing in at a low page count, and then lots of prebuilt content and character options.

I've got the old Avalon Hill "quick start" box sets for Runequest, they've got a fairly low page count.

[p_clapham]

^{I agree.  A creative GM and enthusiastic players trump game system every time.  You can have a lot of fun despite a clunky rules set, and award-winning rules don't guarantee a good game.}

Very true.  I've had a hard time with the Champions and Rolemaster rules, but I've had some really great GMs that more than made up for it.  They walked me through character creation, and ran some really fun games.  In contrast I've had some pretty awful GMs for fairly simple and intuitive systems.  To this day I refuse to have anything to do with Legend of the Five Rings.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

I have no idea what game Darkholme reminds you of.

Heh, that would be BLUEHOLME™.

[Darkholme]

Heh, that would be BLUEHOLME™.

Haha. okay, I never would have gotten that. Most OSR D&D isn't really my thing. I was interested in Myth and Magic, but I think that Fizzled; and I may look into ACK or LoFP at some point in the future, but I have not played them as of yet.