Magic, not Sorcery, supplements

[Mark Mohrfield]

Just out of idle curiosity (I’m not running any games right now) are there any BRP supplements that use the Magic system from page 89 of the Big Gold Bookmas as  opposed to the Sorcery system from page from page 122?

Edited January 26, 2023 by Mark Mohrfield

[CussaMitre]

I don't the answer, as I have to admit I am quite new to BRP.

But what do you mean by "opposed"?

[Lloyd Dupont]

There are multiple power systems in BRP: "Magic" (that's the name), Sorcery, Psionic, Mutation, Superpower

Sorcery seems to be the most popular by virtue of being the single magic system found in the more popular franchise: Magic World (and Moorcock or something).

That said Magic and Sorcery are relatively similar (compare to the other 2).

Personally I like "Magic" more. But I somewhat dislike all D100 magic system, because how they majorly skew power in the hand of wizard right of the character creation phase (as long as one pick any reasonable spell they want). This is the one thing that bother me, not entirely sure yet how to solve it. Though I have some ideas! 🙂 

[Mark Mohrfield]

8 hours ago, CussaMitre said:

I don't the answer, as I have to admit I am quite new to BRP.

But what do you mean by "opposed"?

I meant “as opposed to”. Sorry for the confusion.

[Mugen]

On 1/25/2023 at 10:41 PM, Mark Mohrfield said:

Just out of idle curiosity (I’m not running any games right now) are there any BRP supplements that use the Magic system from page 89 of the Big Gold Bookmas as  opposed to the Sorcery system from page from page 122?

Well, there's the original Magic World frolm 1981 Worlds of Wonder, but it's the booklet in which the system was originally published. But I don't know any BRP supplement that uses it.

But, to be honest, the BGB is more a collection of systems that were used prior to its publication than a collection of systems that were used in games after it was published.

Drakkar och Demoner is said yo be based on that original Magic World, so I guess it can count as a game that uses that system.

French game BaSIC, which is a variant of BRP, uses it as the basis of its magic system. 

It also depends on whether you consider that RuneQuest 3 "Sorcery" is just an expanded version of this "Magic" system or not. Then RQ3, RQG use it, and games like Mythras or OpenQuest use modified versions.

[albesias]

Powers chapter in BGB shows magic systems in a sort of sample style fashion. You can get what you need and do the thing that fits better your setting. 

[smiorgan]

The original BRP version of Classic Fantasy had a magic system based on BRP Maagic. But then Classic Fantasy migrated to Mythras.

[Godlearner]

Seems that there are not too many BRP supplements coming out in the first place. My game tends to be quasi-Gloranthan with mostly BRP rules. So, I use what I feel like it should be for all adventures.

[g33k]

1 hour ago, Godlearner said:

Seems that there are not too many BRP supplements coming out in the first place. My game tends to be quasi-Gloranthan with mostly BRP rules. So, I use what I feel like it should be for all adventures.

Chaosium had previously said that -- in their experience (i.e. looking at sales over time, of different product lines) -- the products with rich, developed settings (e.g. CoC & RQ & Elric/SB &c) sold well, and the generic rules (BGB) and more-generic settings (MW) did not sell as well.

Now that WotC tossed their OGL-handgrenade, and the "ORC" license is a thing, and Chaosium looks to be making a genuine effort to market a new edition of BRP, we may see more BRP content coming out; only time will tell.

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

Chaosium had previously said that -- in their experience (i.e. looking at sales over time, of different product lines) -- the products with rich, developed settings (e.g. CoC & RQ & Elric/SB &c) sold well, and the generic rules (BGB) and more-generic settings (MW) did not sell as well.

Yeah it's been shown that well developed setting sell better, although I think that might have a lot to do with the fact that such settings tend to have greater scenario support. Many GMs want to use pre-written adventures, and developed settings get a lot more of those than generic settings. 

3 hours ago, g33k said:

Now that WotC tossed their OGL-handgrenade, and the "ORC" license is a thing, and Chaosium looks to be making a genuine effort to market a new edition of BRP, we may see more BRP content coming out; only time will tell.

I'm a little worried about that. While WotC has certainly done, and continues to do, damage to it's brand, I suspect a lot of angry D&Ders will go back to it if WotC doesn't do anything else to aggravate them.

Everybody seems to be making a new OGL RPG after the  D&D fiasco. I could easily see this ending up like the streaming wars with companies spending too much money and resources fighting for market share. I just don't see many D&D fans migrating to BRP. In my experience most D&D players like character classes, levels of experience, increasing hit points, experience points and the other stuff that goes with D&D like games. Only a small fraction seem to prefer skill based games.  Yes, now is a good time to draw attention to BRP, or any RPG that isn't D&D, but I doubt any RPG is going to be able to grab the sort of market share that D&D had, except maybe Pathfinder, but that is more of a lateral move for D&D players.

[Godlearner]

11 hours ago, g33k said:

Chaosium had previously said that -- in their experience (i.e. looking at sales over time, of different product lines) -- the products with rich, developed settings (e.g. CoC & RQ & Elric/SB &c) sold well, and the generic rules (BGB) and more-generic settings (MW) did not sell as well.

Sure, I would agree with it. But, its also a the chiken vs. egg argument. Coming out with rules and not supporting it with gaming material is doomed. RQG currently has JC support, why not try something like that BRP?

[Ravenheart87]

24 minutes ago, Godlearner said:

RQG currently has JC support, why not try something like that BRP?

Isn't that the whole point of the ORC license?

[Godlearner]

2 hours ago, Ravenheart87 said:

Isn't that the whole point of the ORC license?

No, its a piece of it, but JC is a lot more.

[Chaot]

On 3/22/2023 at 1:01 PM, smiorgan said:

The original BRP version of Classic Fantasy had a magic system based on BRP Maagic. But then Classic Fantasy migrated to Mythras.

This is what I came to add. It was a neat system and you could level up your spells for different costs.

[g33k]

11 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

...

I'm a little worried about that. While WotC has certainly done, and continues to do, damage to it's brand, I suspect a lot of angry D&Ders will go back to it if WotC doesn't do anything else to aggravate them.

Everybody seems to be making a new OGL RPG after the  D&D fiasco. I could easily see this ending up like the streaming wars with companies spending too much money and resources fighting for market share. I just don't see many D&D fans migrating to BRP. In my experience most D&D players like character classes, levels of experience, increasing hit points, experience points and the other stuff that goes with D&D like games. Only a small fraction seem to prefer skill based games.  Yes, now is a good time to draw attention to BRP, or any RPG that isn't D&D, but I doubt any RPG is going to be able to grab the sort of market share that D&D had, except maybe Pathfinder, but that is more of a lateral move for D&D players.

I have similar concerns.  The 180-degree flip to CC-BY-4.0 was quite surprising from a Hasbro-sized company, and may well have taken the wind out of a LOT of sails departing Port WotC.

But still... Chaosium saw a HUGE surge in "Cthulhu-Curious" folk, in the Jan/Feb timeframe (I presume this is a mix of sales of Starter-Sets and/or numbers of brand-new accounts on their webstore and/or reports from GM's in their "Cult of Chaos" organized-play program and/or chatter-from-newcomers on social media and/or back-channel info from Roll20/Foundry/StartPlaying/etc ... but that's just my own inference).  If even 10% of D&D players become regulars of some BRP game, that'd be a huge win!  Back In The Day (1979-1981), RQ was the 3rd or 4th RPG that I tried... and the mechanics instantly made it my new favorite.  I think some of these D&D-players may have a similar experience...

I don't know if that "Cthulhu-Curious" interest has gone back to normal levels, or not.  But I think this moment of disaffection is an opportunity that Chaosium would be foolish to skip.  They seem to have jumped on it with remarkable speed (fast enough that I'm concerned the editing &c may suffer), so I think Chaosium also sees it as a unique opportunity.

I think they are likely to be vindicated in this (though maybe not to the degree they hope).  But honestly, "gamers" are IMHO a slightly-different buying population than many others.  We all know the somewhat obsessive & sometimes curmudgeonly manner this group can foster.  I've seen people carrying grudges, and not forgiving corporate actions (heck, I am one of them:  I enjoy Shadowrun tremendously, but will give zero $$$ and promotion to Catalyst, since they stiffed so many of their freelancers back in Loren Coleman's embezzlement fiasco around 2009/2010... until/unless I see that those freelancers who suffered now say they have been made whole.  TDM is similarly on my "will no longer buy, nor promote with social media up-chatter" list, because of their shitty non-response in the lee of Mythic Polynesia).

I think there are likely thousands of D&D players out there who will never again trust WotC and are looking for a new system to be their "forever home."  There may be a million who complacently go back to D&D, but... adding thousands of customers is a really worthwhile endeavor for Chaosium !

[Atgxtg]

5 hours ago, g33k said:

I have similar concerns.  The 180-degree flip to CC-BY-4.0 was quite surprising from a Hasbro-sized company, and may well have taken the wind out of a LOT of sails departing Port WotC.

I didn;t find it all that surprising, WotC is hemmoraging money these days. They over saturated MTG to the point that cards are going into landfills, and the shift away from OGL did a job on D&D. But then, they were always going to do something like that. The whole OGL thing was becuase D&D's dominance was slipping (World of Darkness was getting better penetration in book stores), and OGL got everybody producing D&D stuff. But the plan was to replace OGL with a closed edition once thier dominance was securred. It just didn't turn out that way though. 4E led to Pathfinder, and WotC recent actions alinated a lot of people.

 

5 hours ago, g33k said:

But still... Chaosium saw a HUGE surge in "Cthulhu-Curious" folk, in the Jan/Feb timeframe (I presume this is a mix of sales of Starter-Sets and/or numbers of brand-new accounts on their webstore and/or reports from GM's in their "Cult of Chaos" organized-play program and/or chatter-from-newcomers on social media and/or back-channel info from Roll20/Foundry/StartPlaying/etc ... but that's just my own inference).  If even 10% of D&D players become regulars of some BRP game, that'd be a huge win!  Back In The Day (1979-1981), RQ was the 3rd or 4th RPG that I tried... and the mechanics instantly made it my new favorite.  I think some of these D&D-players may have a similar experience...

Great. People have to look at BRP in order to give it a chance. Same for the other RPGs. The problem in the past was that a lot of people just played D&D/D20 RPGs and didn't look at other RPGs, or worse blamed those other RPGs when their D&D tactics didn't work in those RPGs. I slaughtered quite a few groups of D&D players in RQ2 and RQ3 who thought that charging the archers was a great tactic because it worked from them in AD&D. 

5 hours ago, g33k said:

I don't know if that "Cthulhu-Curious" interest has gone back to normal levels, or not.  But I think this moment of disaffection is an opportunity that Chaosium would be foolish to skip.  They seem to have jumped on it with remarkable speed (fast enough that I'm concerned the editing &c may suffer), so I think Chaosium also sees it as a unique opportunity.

Good> I think it is a unique opportunity. It is possible for some else to supplant D&D, or better yet, just open up the gaming market for other games. I think a fast response is key, too. A year from now whatever is going to happen, will have already happened. Once people find their replacement to D&D they will stop looking at other RPGs.

5 hours ago, g33k said:

I think they are likely to be vindicated in this (though maybe not to the degree they hope).  But honestly, "gamers" are IMHO a slightly-different buying population than many others.  We all know the somewhat obsessive & sometimes curmudgeonly manner this group can foster.  I've seen people carrying grudges, and not forgiving corporate actions (heck, I am one of them:  I enjoy Shadowrun tremendously, but will give zero $$$ and promotion to Catalyst, since they stiffed so many of their freelancers back in Loren Coleman's embezzlement fiasco around 2009/2010... until/unless I see that those freelancers who suffered now say they have been made whole.  TDM is similarly on my "will no longer buy, nor promote with social media up-chatter" list, because of their shitty non-response in the lee of Mythic Polynesia).

Yeah, I think they should pick up some new fans. I just worry that the might commit more resources that the returns would warrant. As for grudges, yup. I think it goes with the hobby being something of a niche. A lot of old timers had some grievances against the old TSR.

5 hours ago, g33k said:

I think there are likely thousands of D&D players out there who will never again trust WotC and are looking for a new system to be their "forever home."  There may be a million who complacently go back to D&D, but... adding thousands of customers is a really worthwhile endeavor for Chaosium !

I think so too, but I suspect most of them will end up playing Pathfinder or some other derivative of D&D. It's the devil they know. After all, most of them were happy with the game system, just not with the move away from OGL. I'm probably a good example of this. I am not a fan of RQG, nor do I like the direction that Pendragon 6 seems to be heading, and I certainly do not get along with a certain member of the Chaosium staff, yet while I won't play RQG or KAP6, I have no plans to switch to D&D/D20 over any of this, and instead will stick with the older editions. 

 

In fact, I'm sort of surprised about the uproar, as I thought it was a golden opportunity for other companies to dominate 5E. If the player refuse to move to 6E there was nothing WotC could have done about it.  

[Questbird]

On 1/26/2023 at 8:41 AM, Mark Mohrfield said:

Just out of idle curiosity (I’m not running any games right now) are there any BRP supplements that use the Magic system from page 89 of the Big Gold Bookmas as  opposed to the Sorcery system from page from page 122?

 

I didn't even realise there were two 'magic' systems listed in the Big Gold Book. Sorcery is the one most familiar to me from Elric!/Magic World. The magic system seems to be similar, but involving 'levels' of spells where the magician puts more power into certain spells. And no I haven't heard of supplements that use that system.