The Hero Wars, New Gods, Praxian Renaissance?

[Erol of Backford]

4 hours ago, EricW said:

it might not be Genert you resurrect

This was discussed and could be really interesting... really bad. How would one prevent the repaired Genert from being an evil twin?

17 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

still crazy scary it could turn into a mummified mass of destruction as Mr. Brandi described...

I was wondering that, could the repaired Ernalda mirror be brought to the cleansed Bog, along with some/all the other items discussed above, which would attract 1000's of snakes, who are actually small parts of Genert, recreating his lower body skin/scales. Hyena skins for upper torso and snakes for the bottom. Maybe the mirror needs to be at a new Great Earth temple in the cleansed Bog or near there. It's a decade long process?

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

was in the Rainbow Mounds

The shining metallic sculpture, roughly a meter in diameter... was always part of our campaigns, even used as a shield at one time... that could easily become part of Genert and a long lead into this campaign. The person carrying it starts to see visions... leans towards becoming a member of the Ernalda or some other earth cult, Babeester Gor, etc. this is a great early plot link.

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

The Adventurers cleansed Genert's Throne, on the Plateau of Statues, and brought him back in Genert's Hall, also on the Plateau of Statues.

Somewhere per Mr. Scott I think: The "missing" head is effectively the fertility of the Erno Arkozal Grasslands (the yellow centre) which has the best grazing in the Wastes, the same as Sacred Ground in Prax. The Erno Arkozal Grasslands were the site of Genert's Throne. Seolinthur's Fall smashed the throne (a cool looking rock outcrop) with his head. It would of been the same as the other Palace grassland, were it not for this. (red arrow) I do like the tie to the Hills and Platteau however.

 

21 hours ago, soltakss said:

Adventurers in my campaign had practice bringing Pavis back from the Green Age

We have it set that one PC is an actual physical daughter of Pavis and a Pavis Garden Dryad but doesn't know who her father is... Visions and all that, Pavis meets her in her dreams... didn't sort all that out yet.

5 hours ago, Manunancy said:

Who where the sacrificed ? Something on that scale feels fraught with risks, especially if the sacrificed didn't volunteer for the job.

No one will, it will be 1000's of snakes attracted by the repair Ernalda mirror. They are not being sacrificed but rather rejoining Genert's body which they have all been part of... the hyaena skins stitched by silver thread made by forgotten Ty Kora Tek magics to be discovered in the lower levels of some forgotten Wastelands ruins?

 

 

[EricW]

5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

This was discussed and could be really interesting... really bad. How would one prevent the repaired Genert from being an evil twin?

I was referring to Wakboth. Casting a divinity scale resurrection spell in Prax has its potential pitfalls.

Edited April 30, 2023 by EricW

[Erol of Backford]

55 minutes ago, EricW said:

I was referring to Wakboth

Any idea as to how the process to bring Genert back could go wrong or be influenced by chaos and or evil, physically or spiritually? Knowing that 100's perhaps 100's or even 1000's of creatures are working to a positive outcome?

It'd need to be on a huge scale to have Genert raised as Wakboth, could happen but how do you see it occuring? Sounds pretty interesting and adds sub plotmotives for chaotics anywhere in the Wastes I suppose?

[French Desperate WindChild]

but you don't know (well as a gm you know of course) how many people and what kind of people (spirits ? mortals ? evils ? sea worshippers ? air worshippers ? earth worshippers ? etc.. ) would try to at least stop this process

there are a lot of reason to not see him back (and who knows if his remnants are not corrupted by all the chaos weeping in the region

 

but let's say he's back and he's not chaotic

what will happen ?

Will he request to become the king of the earth pantheon ?

How will the ernaldan and other priestesses react ?

How  Orlanth will react if his wife is no more the leader of the ground(meaning that is less king than previously in addition of any love passion) ?

Worst, the "usurpater" is one of his bad uncles, one who sent him to the pits trap !

and probably same for other gods but i don't know enough the myths to find some grievance.

 

the question is why did no one tried to resurrect him (well no one I know ^^)

How many gods and goddess are satisfied to not see him any more. Oh I m not saying he is bad, I m not saying the other gods (and their worshippers), in particular the earth goddesses will not accept to submit if he requires it but they seems to me satisfied by their "actual" situation

 

 

[EricW]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Any idea as to how the process to bring Genert back could go wrong or be influenced by chaos and or evil, physically or spiritually? Knowing that 100's perhaps 100's or even 1000's of creatures are working to a positive outcome?

It'd need to be on a huge scale to have Genert raised as Wakboth, could happen but how do you see it occuring? Sounds pretty interesting and adds sub plotmotives for chaotics anywhere in the Wastes I suppose?

The block of Truestone holding Wakboth only just holds him. His minions continue to fight Storm Bull’s armies in the Eternal Battle, a contest so close to the mundane world  it can easily be visited. And the devil has repeatedly demonstrated his power to intrude into the world, such as his final conflict with Argrath and the death of the gods, which occurs after or as the moon is being torn from the sky.

The point is the devil is magically close to Prax.

it would be a near certainty that an attempt to resurrect a major god in Prax would attract the devil and his minions, who would attempt to pervert the ritual. And there is a solid mythical foundation for that perversion, instead of the ritual stopping with the resurrection of Genert, the traitors could attempt to push the ritual forward to the battle of Earthfall, when chaos gods murdered Genert and dissolved his armies in a display of forces never before seen.

Such a major eruption of chaos would be extremely dangerous so close to the block.

[soltakss]

12 hours ago, EricW said:

I was referring to Wakboth. Casting a divinity scale resurrection spell in Prax has its potential pitfalls.

In my campaign, there were factions from the Lunar Empire who were working with Ogres and Broos to actively bring Wakboth back. They were going to replicate the Thousand Souls Ritual at the Block to enliven Wakboth. Fortunately, a Dragon had wrapped itself around the Block to guard it, so all they needed to do was to get it to pull the Block down, give Wakboth back his soul and bring it back. Unfortunately, the campaign ended before that could happen.

[soltakss]

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

but let's say he's back and he's not chaotic

what will happen ?

All I can say is what happened in our campaign.

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Will he request to become the king of the earth pantheon ?

Yes he did, as he was the Earth King.

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

How will the ernaldan and other priestesses react ?

They didn't like it at all. They were pushed out of the Oasis Folk completely, and were given a vastly reduced position in the Paps. Pavis allowed both Genert and Ernaldan worship and they competed against each other. 

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

How  Orlanth will react if his wife is no more the leader of the ground(meaning that is less king than previously in addition of any love passion) ?

We reconciled it so that Ernalda was Queen of the Earth Deities and Genert was King of the Earth Deities, and they sort-of got on, thanks to the intervention of the Adventurers.

Orlanth was fine, as he was still King of the Gods and Ernalda was still Queen of the Gods, just that Genert was Earth King in the same way that Yelm was Emperor.

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Worst, the "usurpater" is one of his bad uncles, one who sent him to the pits trap !

and probably same for other gods but i don't know enough the myths to find some grievance.

It definitely caused some problems and shifting allegiances. For example, the primal Land Goddesses are all daughters of Genert but were pretty much subservient to the Grain Goddesses and to Ernalda, that changed and most of them came back under Genert's sway.

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

the question is why did no one tried to resurrect him (well no one I know ^^)

Because it is really difficult. The people at the Growing Ground have been trying for centuries. The difference was that the Adventurers brought in new ideas and techniques.

11 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

How many gods and goddess are satisfied to not see him any more. Oh I m not saying he is bad, I m not saying the other gods (and their worshippers), in particular the earth goddesses will not accept to submit if he requires it but they seems to me satisfied by their "actual" situation

I am sure that the Ernalda cult actively sabotaged attempts to resurrect Genert.

 

[soltakss]

8 hours ago, EricW said:

Such a major eruption of chaos would be extremely dangerous so close to the block.

One problem at a time, please.

[French Desperate WindChild]

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

All I can say is what happened in our campaign.

Yes he did, as he was the Earth King.

They didn't like it at all. They were pushed out of the Oasis Folk completely, and were given a vastly reduced position in the Paps. Pavis allowed both Genert and Ernaldan worship and they competed against each other. 

We reconciled it so that Ernalda was Queen of the Earth Deities and Genert was King of the Earth Deities, and they sort-of got on, thanks to the intervention of the Adventurers.

Orlanth was fine, as he was still King of the Gods and Ernalda was still Queen of the Gods, just that Genert was Earth King in the same way that Yelm was Emperor.

It definitely caused some problems and shifting allegiances. For example, the primal Land Goddesses are all daughters of Genert but were pretty much subservient to the Grain Goddesses and to Ernalda, that changed and most of them came back under Genert's sway.

Because it is really difficult. The people at the Growing Ground have been trying for centuries. The difference was that the Adventurers brought in new ideas and techniques.

I am sure that the Ernalda cult actively sabotaged attempts to resurrect Genert.

 

yes we agree !

[DrGoth]

19 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

This was discussed and could be really interesting... really bad. How would one prevent the repaired Genert from being an evil twin

Just because he was the Earth King doesn't mean he was 'good'.  

"Ah yes, thank you for resurrecting me, mere mortals. Now, disavow all your other gods and worships me.  All shall bow down before me."

[mfbrandi]

12 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Will he request to become the king of the earth pantheon?
How will the ernaldan and other priestesses react?

Raises questions of rune ownership and locality, perhaps?

But consider Pamalt, who is not dead. The Prosopædia that is almost upon us — blessed be the Prosopædia — purportedly has:

• Pamalt (p. 97)
• Ernalda (p. 35)

So maybe rune ownership — for whatever reason — is not so absolute. Non-canon idle thoughts:

• you can own a bit of a rune (geographically, perhaps)
• gods don’t really own runes: it is a worshipper perspective (and Pamalt worshippers don’t overlap Ernaldans)
• Pamalt = Ernalda (as Vinga = Orlanth)
• “It is all relative, man!”
• there is a typo on the Well of Daliath (I swear I saw Arachne with a water rune once, but …)

[mfbrandi]

13 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

It'd need to be on a huge scale to have Genert raised as Wakboth, could happen but how do you see it occuring? Sounds pretty interesting

Even now, I have a sweatshop staffed with trollkin painting spots on goatskins so we can pass them off as hyenaskins. Skins of illuminated broos are particularly valuable.

(Breeding spotty goats in appropriate shades, too, of course. But the other is more fun.)

[Erol of Backford]

On 4/30/2023 at 5:50 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

How  Orlanth will react

Maybe he'll try to kill him to protect his wife's interests?

On 4/30/2023 at 5:50 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

the question is why did no one tried to resurrect him

Likely know one thought it possible.I suppose Genert's supporters died off over time? Mr. Svensson thought this up with a good bit of previous discussion by Mr. Soltakss in other Prax threads. Its al their fault?

On 4/30/2023 at 8:05 PM, EricW said:

The point is the devil is magically close to Prax.

That's why I was thinking the Eternal Battle should be part of the process somehow, it just seems to need to be included?

On 4/30/2023 at 8:05 PM, EricW said:

Such a major eruption of chaos would be extremely dangerous so close to the block.

I didn't scale it but its 100's of kilos... close not really but do I think a chaos surge would be trigger, you betcha, good point. How to defend against it? I guess it'd be lots of small attacks rather than a large well coordinated one, thus is chaos?

15 hours ago, soltakss said:

They were going to replicate the Thousand Souls Ritual at the Block to enliven Wakboth.

Is there a source for this? Would like to read up...

15 hours ago, soltakss said:

Orlanth was fine, as he was still King of the Gods and Ernalda was still Queen of the Gods, just that Genert was Earth King in the same way that Yelm was Emperor.

It's a nice "everyone gets along" scenario but I bet Orlanth Mr. fighting is always an option, doesn't like it and if Genert wants a bit more what happens? 

15 hours ago, soltakss said:

The people at the Growing Ground have been trying for centuries.

Also a source would be nice here. Will check Well and Wiki... so much new material for me.

15 hours ago, soltakss said:

I am sure that the Ernalda cult actively sabotaged attempts to resurrect Genert.

To be disagreeable for discussion, why would she do that, maybe she actually wants to get rid of Orlanth, bored with him, smelly, bad breath, obnoxious, crude and always lecherous whereas Genert is the gentleman, loving, kind, a creator not a destroyer? I bet she'd dump him after centuries of his nonsense?

14 hours ago, DrGoth said:

"Ah yes, thank you for resurrecting me, mere mortals. Now, disavow all your other gods and worships me.  All shall bow down before me."

Same potential to be evil/chaotic, how could the worshipers be assured that Genert would come back good?

 

13 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Even now, I have a sweatshop staffed with trollkin painting spots on goatskins so we can pass them off as hyenaskins. Skins of illuminated broos are particularly valuable.

That is freakin funny! Do they also make Nike shoes with little wings on them, oh wait that a different set of myths!?

The more I think about this, it's something the PC's would work towards long term, a game time effort of 25-30 years?

[Erol of Backford]

In TotRM 15 p.43 there is a really good article on Hyena. Wish I saw it a few days ago! Does anyone know who this one armed sage was who travelled throughout Prax and visited the tribes and most of the independents. Maybe his book is on sale at the Borderlands bookstore in Pavis?

[Manunancy]

What gets me wondering is the 'one thousand peoples acrificed' - were the yvolunteers ? maybe in keeping wit the amreindian themes in prax whorhsippers working themselves to death in somethign liek a Ghost Dance big ritual. Or were they unwilling - ennemies and undesirable gathered at swordpoint and mass executed ?

The first option may work without too much trouble or taint, but if it was the second, the odds for something going wrong would raise up. Human (or other sentients) sacrifices in Glorantha are a risky business, and very few non-chaotic cultures do it regularly. (the somewhat disallowed Corn Rites, the Black sun cult in Ignorance and that's about it - though sorcerous tapping might count, but isn't more common)

 

[Shiningbrow]

3 hours ago, Manunancy said:

What gets me wondering is the 'one thousand peoples acrificed' - were the yvolunteers ? maybe in keeping wit the amreindian themes in prax whorhsippers working themselves to death in somethign liek a Ghost Dance big ritual. Or were they unwilling - ennemies and undesirable gathered at swordpoint and mass executed ?

The first option may work without too much trouble or taint, but if it was the second, the odds for something going wrong would raise up. Human (or other sentients) sacrifices in Glorantha are a risky business, and very few non-chaotic cultures do it regularly. (the somewhat disallowed Corn Rites, the Black sun cult in Ignorance and that's about it - though sorcerous tapping might count, but isn't more common)

 

What about herd-men? (how many are there???)

[French Desperate WindChild]

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

On 5/1/2023 at 12:50 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

How  Orlanth will react

Maybe he'll try to kill him to protect his wife's interests?

To kill a god is bad, Orlanth knows it (now he is experimented 😛 )

However  a lot of rune-level worshippers sent to bargain (with a lot of rune points and heavy iron armor and weapon, of course) some pc who want to resurrect a god is just mundane business

but Orlanth is you in your game, so no one can tell you what you must do

[Manunancy]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

What about herd-men? (how many are there???)

Albeit they're human-shaped, they're not peoples but animals. Going by peoples from Prax, you'd have humans and morokanth (by Waha's standard), with aldryamis, trolls, dwarves, baboons, newts and agimori (if not counted as humans) too, even if not explicitely included in the compact. Probably a few others, including awakened animals. 

At a guesstimate, i'd consider any race that's got unfixed intelligence and was around in Genert's garden will qualify

[Joerg]

In Genert's Garden, both the human and the animal parts of the Beast Nomads were equally sentient. WIth Waha's Covenant, the eaters gained quite a bit cogition, and the eaten may have given up some. Restoring Genert might overturn that...

To Genert, beasts and humans are quite likely equally valuable. The civilized folk were the Tada-shi, the people of Tada, Vingkot's in-laws. Nowadays they live in conditions only a little better than Greater Darkness squalor - they enjoy the fertility of the oases, but are exploited to the bone by the animal nomads.

[dumuzid]

I think one of the biggest things that could happen with a return of Genert is the resurgence of his chosen people, the baboons.  Ancient baboon cities rising from the earth and reconstituting themselves!  Baboon ancestors long thought lost walking among the people in bodies of earth and stone, teaching again the God Time secrets!  The dawning of the Fourth Age could herald the rise of the New Ape Empire in central Genertela, more glorious than ever before.

[mfbrandi]

1 hour ago, dumuzid said:

The dawning of the Fourth Age could herald the rise of the New Ape Empire in central Genertela, more glorious than ever before.

I know Argrath has his little rant about “humankind”, but I quite often wonder which people it is really that survive the Wakbothpocalypse.

Are they feathered?
Are they furry?
Are they scaly?
Does the returned Argrath match them, or is he a Robert Neville in their brave new world?

“Apotheosis” is just another word for being moved off the board, right?

[dumuzid]

2 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Does the returned Argrath match them, or is he a Robert Neville in their brave new world?

Perhaps he returns to a world where all humans have been reduced to herd-men, and a different class of primates walks upright...

 

 

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, dumuzid said:

The dawning of the Fourth Age could herald the rise of the New Ape Empire in central Genertela, more glorious than ever before.

It's a madhouse! A madhouse!

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, dumuzid said:

Perhaps he returns to a world where all humans have been reduced to herd-men, and a different class of primates walks upright...

He is Charlton Heston, either way.

[French Desperate WindChild]

3 hours ago, dumuzid said:

 Ancient baboon cities rising from the earth and reconstituting themselves!  Baboon ancestors long thought lost walking among the people in bodies of earth and stone, teaching again the God Time secrets!  The dawning of the Fourth Age could herald the rise of the New Ape Empire in central Genertela, more glorious than ever before.

Who can believe it ?

that's only a legend created by some weak but smart baboon to become a leader of its clan without having to defeat the boss. When priests take power and subdue warriors 😛