Prosopedia trivia

[Darius West]

On 7/24/2023 at 6:19 AM, jajagappa said:

Curious little bit of trivia: the Red Goddess, Jannisor, and Sheng were all born on the same day... While Jannisor was uniting the Orlanthi and defeating the Red Emperor, it was thought that he was the Red Goddess' Shadow. That turned out not to be the case. 

Or perhaps he was the Red Goddess' shadow, but she reconciled with him on her illuminated path?  After all, Jannisor does become the Red Emperor...

[Joerg]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:19 PM, jajagappa said:

Curious little bit of trivia: the Red Goddess, Jannisor, and Sheng were all born on the same day... While Jannisor was uniting the Orlanthi and defeating the Red Emperor, it was thought that he was the Red Goddess' Shadow. That turned out not to be the case. 

The Red Goddess cheated, of course, being born into a 14-year-old (or so) girl's body rather than as a mewling infant. That way she was able to field several adult children for the Battle of Castle Blue 25 years into her reborn life.

[Qizilbashwoman]

12 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The Red Goddess cheated, of course, being born into a 14-year-old (or so) girl's body rather than as a mewling infant. That way she was able to field several adult children for the Battle of Castle Blue 25 years into her reborn life.

to be fair to the Red Goddess, it was not her magical working that created her, but rather the work of a crazy experimental Godlearner-informed cabal of Lunarbringer heroquesters.

I've never been sure if the Lunarbringer quest has been repeated or not. Do (elite) Lunars heroquest it?

[mfbrandi]

4 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

to be fair to the Red Goddess, it was not her magical working that created her, but rather the work of a crazy experimental Godlearner-informed cabal of Lunarbringer heroquesters.

Hmm, heroquests …

I always imagine the 7M “quest” as a seedy ritual carried out in a mildewed room — smelling of boiled cabbage, naturally — over a dodgy pub in Deptford. This is all to the good: desperate times, desperate measures; no good ever came of puffed-up questers in burnished armour whistling as they set off to do something “heroic”.

So, elite Lunar repetition? Not in public, I think. Whatever is done for show is not the real deal.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Do (elite) Lunars heroquest it?

I'd generally say no as the implications might be to undermine the Lunar Empire.

However, it could be that each of the Four Inspirations of Moonson is effectively a new version of the Red Goddess quest to create the next incarnation of the Red Goddess within the mortal world.

Jar-eel's quest to regain the Crimson Bat likely required passing along at least certain stages of the quest too in order to return at the Third Battle of Chaos.

[Qizilbashwoman]

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

However, it could be that each of the Four Inspirations of Moonson is effectively a new version of the Red Goddess quest to create the next incarnation of the Red Goddess within the mortal world.

Jar-eel's quest to regain the Crimson Bat likely required passing along at least certain stages of the quest too in order to return at the Third Battle of Chaos.

that's an interesting point

[Minlister]

I always thought that Esrola was a sister of Ernalda, I understand that it is no longer the case?Am I right? Or did I misread the genealogy p. 13 of the Earth Goddesses? Esrola is not even mentioned in the who's who of the Earth pantheon, p. 8-11

That's a pity, I liked so much the myth of Asrelia distributing the Great, the Most and the Least [basically brutality, prosperity and sovereignty] to her daughters Maran, Esrola and Ernalda

I will eat extra cornflakes at breakfast to remember the lost sister.

[scott-martin]

10 minutes ago, Minlister said:

I always thought that Esrola was a sister of Ernalda, I understand that it is no longer the case?Am I right? Or did I misread the genealogy p. 13 of the Earth Goddesses? Esrola is not even mentioned in the who's who of the Earth pantheon, p. 8-11

In my Glorantha the priestesses are deciding something new behind the scenes in the aftermath of the Esrolian Civil War, coming up with a fresh interpretation of the earth pantheon that shifts away from things like the old "Charlotte Light And Dark" benign/malign binary crossed with the generational triplicate girl model . . . and shifts toward a more Ernalda-centered universal intercessor instead. While I wish this realignment could play out on screen, it leaves its traces and that's enough. Something exciting is happening inside the Ernalda cult. There are fireworks.

How I would apply this in play is to simply rule that the old version was the orthodoxy that girls taught and were taught as recently as 1615-20 or so but now the people in charge of educating novice adventurers have decided the truth is elsewhere. Of course if you want to "play the controversy" all you need to do is introduce the party to people who have not embraced the new ways yet. For example, I would not be surprised if the old tripartite model is still the official doctrine of the Shaker Temple and Old Tarsh, which was isolated from southern Ernalda for a long time and never really had much love for Esrola at all.

[Minlister]

Yes, indeed, I like very much this kind of approach, I do the same with Elmal in a way.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Minlister said:

I always thought that Esrola was a sister of Ernalda, I understand that it is no longer the case?Am I right? Or did I misread the genealogy p. 13 of the Earth Goddesses? Esrola is not even mentioned in the who's who of the Earth pantheon, p. 8-11

That's a pity, I liked so much the myth of Asrelia distributing the Great, the Most and the Least [basically brutality, prosperity and sovereignty] to her daughters Maran, Esrola and Ernalda

I will eat extra cornflakes at breakfast to remember the lost sister.

The current version *is* the old version.  Esrola as the Middle Sister was something introduced in Storm Tribe: the Cults of Sartar.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Minlister said:

Esrola is not even mentioned in the who's who of the Earth pantheon, p. 8-11

She's implicitly included as one of the Grain Goddesses detailed on p9.

[Minlister]

Quote

The current version *is* the old version.  Esrola as the Middle Sister was something introduced in Storm Tribe: the Cults of Sartar.

Thanks, I did not know that, I discovered it in the Book of Heortling Mythology

[SDLeary]

49 minutes ago, Minlister said:

Yes, indeed, I like very much this kind of approach, I do the same with Elmal in a way.

Perhaps even have that cadre of Ernaldans protected by displaced Elmali... that way you can tie things up in one package! 🙂

SDLeary

[Richard S.]

2 hours ago, Minlister said:

I always thought that Esrola was a sister of Ernalda, I understand that it is no longer the case?Am I right? Or did I misread the genealogy p. 13 of the Earth Goddesses? Esrola is not even mentioned in the who's who of the Earth pantheon, p. 8-11

That's a pity, I liked so much the myth of Asrelia distributing the Great, the Most and the Least [basically brutality, prosperity and sovereignty] to her daughters Maran, Esrola and Ernalda

I will eat extra cornflakes at breakfast to remember the lost sister.

Esrola is one of the land goddesses. I imaginee that myth still exists, but probably using the local land goddess as the middle sister (which would still be Esrola in Esrolia). Relationships like daughter, sister, or other self can be fluid in the god time, just ask voria/ernalda/asrelia.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Richard S.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Minlister said:

I always thought that Esrola was a sister of Ernalda, I understand that it is no longer the case?Am I right? Or did I misread the genealogy p. 13 of the Earth Goddesses? Esrola is not even mentioned in the who's who of the Earth pantheon, p. 8-11

As per the genealogy, p.13, Esrola is counted as one of the Grain Goddesses, and is grouped with them in the who's who of p.8-11.

But Earth genealogies are ever shifting. When Asrelia was young, she was Voria, and when she was fertile she was Ernalda, before retiring to be Asrelia.

Esrola is also counted among the Six Sisters (Ernalda, Maran, Esrola, Delaeo, Delaina, and Orana) though the Prosopaedia only references the latter three under that heading.

But consider Orana, Proso p.93: "Orana is a daughter or sister of Ernalda". And on Proso p.36: "During that time there had been three children born to Esrola. The first was called Orane..." (which is simply a variant on Orana).

And we also have Ketha, Proso p.71: "Ketha is usually worshiped as part of the cult of Ernalda or Esrola" and is the daughter of Gata and Genert. She forms the land of Kethaela, yet that land is also called Ernaldela or Esrolia.

And similarly Proso p.87, we have Mralota: "A daughter of Esrola or Ketha"

This is just the nature of the Earth goddesses myths - they can be both daughters or sisters (or mothers) as the stories go, and those are all acceptable.

 

[Tindalos]

2 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Esrola is also counted among the Six Sisters (Ernalda, Maran, Esrola, Delaeo, Delaina, and Orana) though the Prosopaedia only references the latter three under that heading.

Interestingly the Prosopaedia has "see also" notes for the Six Sisters for those goddesses, but the only entry for that is the Boundry Spirits near Battle Valley, unless they are intended to be one and the same.

[jajagappa]

Just now, Tindalos said:

Interestingly the Prosopaedia has "see also" notes for the Six Sisters for those goddesses, but the only entry for that is the Boundry Spirits near Battle Valley, unless they are intended to be one and the same.

Different Six Sisters (as far as I know). Might be an entry that got missed...

[Minlister]

Quote

This is just the nature of the Earth goddesses myths - they can be both daughters or sisters (or mothers) as the stories go, and those are all acceptable.

Tss, tss, what are we waiting to call the Spanish Inquisition?

[David Scott]

14 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Different Six Sisters (as far as I know). Might be an entry that got missed...

• The Six Sisters (Sartar)
• The Six Sisters (Esrolia)

 

[nabda]

On 8/8/2023 at 1:37 AM, metcalph said:

It's probably this map (screenshot)

 

 

 

I was just looking at this map for a while in the book, puzzling over that arrow off into the wastes in 35 ST. As near as I can figure out, those are the Huck Sheng hills (known for being the place where the Praxian nomads submitted to Sheng), along with the local mountain peak of White Cap (the peak is not actually mentioned in the text of the Guide, only on the maps.) According to the timeline chapter, 35ST was also the year that the Praxians joined the World Council, which may mean that those specific hills have some sort of diplomatic or "diplomatic" value when dealing with the Praxians, or they may have at least at the time been a particularly fertile bit of waste that the darkness survivors rallied around.