Stormbullies - without the Chaos-killing

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

A unified “Cult of Urox” (for whom “Storm Bull” is one psychopathic chaos-hating sub-cult) seems entirely YGWV’able.

It does (Scenario One), but I reckon it is also possible for there to be entirely independent cults of a deity not funnelled through a “unifying” übercult (Scenario Two). No?

[mfbrandi]

On 11/2/2023 at 5:59 AM, Nick Brooke said:

Bisos is also the Mediator, the sacrificial bull who carries messages between men and the gods.

“So I am the postman? Cool!”

“No, sorry, you are the (regrettably bloodstained) letter.”

[g33k]

18 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

It does (Scenario One), but I reckon it is also possible for there to be entirely independent cults of a deity not funnelled through a “unifying” übercult (Scenario Two). No?

Equally viable, IMO.
I presume your "Urox A" cult would be to provide extra separation from the "problematic" elements that would be some subcult of "Urox B" ?

[metcalph]

I think Storm Bull had a much greater range in the God Time but that was whittled down to Chaos-Killer - he has lost nearly everything and now only has his rage.   Pretty much like how Yelmalio was a Fire God and left with only Light.  The main subcults (Bisos, Bemur etc) are relics of what Storm Bull was like.  

Storm Bull/Bisos has 18,000 worshippers in the Western Reaches which is only slightly less than Prax's 19,600 worshippers (5,600 Bison , 3,900 High Llama, 6,000 Impala, 3,200 Morokanth and 900 Pol Joni).  Sartar only has 2,500, the Far Place 1,050 and Talastar 3,750.  Heortland has a large number (over 10,000) but it is unclear how much of the 1621 population is controlled by God Forgot in 1625.   So the Western Reaches has a problem with Chaos, which is comparable to the Wastelands and more than Snakepipe Hollow.

The Lunars are unlikely to be a cause as Storm Bull is not worshipped in the Heartlands.  There is a chaos land in Charg the details of which are literally obscured (cf the Argan Argar Atlas for the Bleak Land p17).  In addition, there is a bygone detail in Avalon Hill's Gods of Glorantha which mentioned Krjalki infesting the borders of the Ban.

Now to sus out the Bull Society in Seshnela...

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by metcalph

[Akhôrahil]

On 11/1/2023 at 3:45 PM, Shiningbrow said:

If that's the case, then there should be a HUGE amount of Stormbull worship in Prax - and not the small minority that has been advertised! 

I think there is a lot of worship. While Storm Bull has a limited number of initiates, he surely receives a crapton of associated worship through Waha and Eiritha, having a big role in their rituals. 

[Darius West]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:32 PM, David Scott said:

 I've always seen these other bull gods as the counterpart of whoever is the cattle goddess (mask of Eiritha).

I don't think Uralda is a mask of Eiritha.  I think Uralda is Eiritha's way more successful sister.

[Shiningbrow]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think there is a lot of worship. While Storm Bull has a limited number of initiates, he surely receives a crapton of associated worship through Waha and Eiritha, having a big role in their rituals. 

Yes, but not directly as a 'bull' god (or the male counterpart to Eiritha)... only as the berserker. Almost like the Stormbull himself doesn't like to be reminded of that part of himself (because, you know, he doesn't offer up any magic other than the anti-Chaos stuff).

However, there's a nice plot device... a Bisos worshipper from the north/west comes over to take a look at where their god finally fell - and reintroduces that aspect and those magics to the Praxians.

[French Desperate WindChild]

13 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

It does (Scenario One), but I reckon it is also possible for there to be entirely independent cults of a deity not funnelled through a “unifying” übercult (Scenario Two). No?

What is a cult ?

For me only a hierarchy of mundane worshippers. for example. Are the cult leader of Orlanth in Ralios and the cult leader of Orlanth in dragon pass in the same hierarchy ? They follow the same god, they agree on that. But one is not higher than the other. (Well I think)

then

I would follow your both scenarios but with some wording changes

scenario 1

unified religion with mask subcults (bisos, stormbull) focus on some aspects, then sub’ sub cults (if any) for specific heroes or lesser deities

 

scenario 2 

mask religions with sub cults (if any) for specific heroes or lesser deities

 

 

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, Darius West said:

I don't think Uralda is a mask of Eiritha.  I think Uralda is Eiritha's way more successful sister.

Note that Uralda was the Old Heortling name of a cow goddess from the period before contact with Prax was resumed. David Dunham thought that would be a better name for the 1330-era settlers in King of Dragon Pass than Eiritha. But it is now 1625, and we have more than a century of intensive interaction with the Praxians. And so Eiritha is her more commonly used name in Sartar. (See Cults of Sartar post).

[Sir_Godspeed]

Others have already mentioned Tawar, but in this guise, the Bull God of some kind of pastoral barbarians (Hsunchen-adjacent proto-Orlanthi of the God time) made a HUGE impact on Fronela and western Peloria.

[AlexS]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:40 AM, Shiningbrow said:

a Bisos worshipper from the north/west comes over to take a look at where their god finally fell - and reintroduces that aspect and those magics to the Praxians

This is indeed a nice plot device, and one that already has a seed in the existing material on the River of Cradles. We have known ever since Borderlands that the Lunars resettled Carmanians in the Zola Fel Grantlands along with Redlanders and Talastarings.

Jamie Revell's Eyes’ Rise builds on this and has a Carmanian (Kesianda of House Kelaritt) as village spokesperson for one of the surviving Grantlands settlements. Although she is a vizier-class sorcerer and thus not necessarily someone who would be involved in Bisos worship, the HQ Pavis volume makes it clear that there are farmers among the Carmanians forcibly resettled in Duke Raus' domain. They are described as "distinctly different" because "they do not worship the goddess Ernalda" (Pavis – Gateway to Adventure p. 72.), and also differ from the Redlanders who worship Lodril and Oria as their agricultural deities.

So who do these Carmanian farmers worship? Bisos seems a pretty obvious contender, and one that would actually give them knowledge and magic that was useful for survival in Prax. In other words, they are not farmers in the Pelorian rice-cultivating sense but actually agro-pastoralists who manage cattle on their steads.

While working on a project that tries to summarise the different cultural traditions found in Dragon Pass, Prax and Kethaela, my co-authors and I decided to lean into this by using Bisos worship as part of the rationale for the survival (at least until Argrath's arrival) of the Zola Fel Carmanians.

I can see a nice storyline where PCs from the Western Reaches make contact with the surviving Carmanian Grantlanders and use the knowledge the survivors have acquired of Praxian Eiritha and Storm Bull worship to reintroduce a Bisos-Eses tradition of bull-based fertility magic to Prax.

Edited November 6, 2023 by AlexS
Added link

[soltakss]

On 11/1/2023 at 10:26 AM, Shiningbrow said:

So, Stormbull was around before Chaos came into the world - which is where he got most of his reputation.

But, is there anything about worshipping this aspect of him without the associated Chaos-killing?? (as in, full temples/shrines without even knowledge about it?? Much like other gods who aren't aware of other aspects worshipped in the rest of lozenge)

In Prax the two aspects are worshipped together. So, Storm Bull is the Father of Beasts, Eiritha's Husband, the Father of the Founders, Father of Waha and so on. In Eiritha Temples that is how he is worshipped. But Praxians also know that he is a Chaos Fighter as well and they don't separate his worship. Praxians might worship him as the Desert Wind but he doesn't give much as that is a dry, harsh wind that is not useful to Praxians.

Minotaurs might worship Storm Bull as a Founder, without his Chaos-Fighting stuff. 

 

[Cassius]

On 11/1/2023 at 11:26 AM, Shiningbrow said:

So, Stormbull was around before Chaos came into the world - which is where he got most of his reputation.

But, is there anything about worshipping this aspect of him without the associated Chaos-killing?? (as in, full temples/shrines without even knowledge about it?? Much like other gods who aren't aware of other aspects worshipped in the rest of lozenge)

Or - is all worship of him brought back to this one essential feature?

According to the Guide (p. 224), Urox is worshipped as a wargod in Fronela, among Jonatela's nobles. In Okarnia, the royal city, "one hundred large bronze statues, each representing a tribe or kingdom united by Jonat, decorate the Courtyard of Sacrifices, along with its shrines to Jonat, Humakt, Orlanth, Talor, Urox, and Vorthan, where the king serves as High Priest" (p. 227). 

Charg is also well-known for its "Urox-worshiping warriors" (p. 225).
 

As these lands are not particularly threatened by Chaos (as far as I know), one might think that the chaos-killing aspect of Urox/Storm Bull is not emphasized, and that it's mainly for his warrior fury that he's worphipped, as one of the Thunder Brothers.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Cassius