Stormbullies - without the Chaos-killing

[Shiningbrow]

So, Stormbull was around before Chaos came into the world - which is where he got most of his reputation.

But, is there anything about worshipping this aspect of him without the associated Chaos-killing?? (as in, full temples/shrines without even knowledge about it?? Much like other gods who aren't aware of other aspects worshipped in the rest of lozenge)

Or - is all worship of him brought back to this one essential feature?

[EricW]

Maybe a cult for children? That lets kids get an introduction, without the obligations of adulthood?

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Or - is all worship of him brought back to this one essential feature?

Of course not! Who do you think fathered the herd beasts of Prax, and the Founders of the beast folk, and the aurochs and cattle?

He's a fertility god! And this sums it up well.

[Shiningbrow]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Of course not! Who do you think fathered the herd beasts of Prax, and the Founders of the beast folk, and the aurochs and cattle?

He's a fertility god! And this sums it up well.

Well now, here's the thing...

If that's the case, then there should be a HUGE amount of Stormbull worship in Prax - and not the small minority that has been advertised! And his role would be far more obvious in that regard! He should be as big and important as Eiritha - more so than Waha... And, it should then mean a very different cult than that presented in RQG.

[Joerg]

34 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Well now, here's the thing...

If that's the case, then there should be a HUGE amount of Stormbull worship in Prax - and not the small minority that has been advertised! And his role would be far more obvious in that regard! He should be as big and important as Eiritha - more so than Waha... And, it should then mean a very different cult than that presented in RQG.

There is - in the shape of the Founders, who are his children. But the Founders yielded their power to Waha in recognition of his Grey Age achievements.

Storm Bull is the ur-ancestor of the Beast Riders. (Pun intended.)

[AndreJarosch]

What was Storm Bull know for before the invasion of Chaos into the world?

If we have a look at the Iniitiation of Orlanth Myth (King of Sartar page 52ff) then Urox/Storm Bull was not afraid of the wild animals, fought them, and finally relesed them. 

I assume that Storm Bull was alwsays the PROTECTOR of the people east of Dragon Pass (Prax & Wastes), and that his "job" always was to stop any physical thread from other creatures, that might harm "his people". 

IMHO Chaos only was the most dangerous thred from the time it has entered the world up to now, and therefore Storm Bull is known as Chaos Killer. 

Before Chaos entered the world (and after the world has been cleaned from chaos again... so... never... but hypothetical...) he was (and will be again) the protector of his people. 

[David Scott]

8 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

So, Stormbull was around before Chaos came into the world - which is where he got most of his reputation.

But, is there anything about worshipping this aspect of him without the associated Chaos-killing?? (as in, full temples/shrines without even knowledge about it?? Much like other gods who aren't aware of other aspects worshipped in the rest of lozenge)

Or - is all worship of him brought back to this one essential feature?

Yes. Bisos in the Yelm pantheon is a mask of Storm Bull, see the Prosopaedia page 16. Lightbringers also mentions another mask, Bemur (see Enclosure 1).

[g33k]

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Well now, here's the thing...

If that's the case, then there should be a HUGE amount of Stormbull worship in Prax - and not the small minority that has been advertised! And his role would be far more obvious in that regard! He should be as big and important as Eiritha - more so than Waha... And, it should then mean a very different cult than that presented in RQG.

I think the Praxian religious experience replaces Sartar's "Lightbringer" centrality with a focus on the Waha/Eiritha's "Survival Covenant" as the central myth-cycle.

Storm Bull is kind of peripheral to that, and primarily as the Chaos-Killer rather than as a beasty "who's yer daddy?" figure.

Male-fertility is -- I think -- broadly nerfed in Genertela because Genert fell in the Earthfall.

[jajagappa]

3 hours ago, g33k said:

Male-fertility is -- I think -- broadly nerfed in Genertela because Genert fell in the Earthfall.

Earth-associated male-fertility. But not all, otherwise you wouldn't have the beast riders and their beasts surviving. While Waha rules, he's still the Butcher and Death god. Storm Bull has the Beast Rune as well as Storm, either or both can have procreative power.

And Storm Bull is also the father of the Minotaur, so there's another fertility connection.

Edited November 1, 2023 by jajagappa

[Harry the Dirty Dog]

My impression was -

Storm Bull was born as a son of Umath. 

He first served Genert in Genert's garden, as other have said, as a fertility god but also a protector.

When Genert was killed by chaos and his garden was destroyed, Storm Bull went to serve his brother Orlanth.  From there he became a chaos killer and left his old role as fertility god behind.

Based on that, Orlanthi see Storm Bull as a chaos killer exclusively.  Praxians might have a view of Storm Bull in his older role, but honestly that role was taken over by Waha and Storm Bull's offspring, so Praxians also see Storm Bull as a chaos killer.

Just my guesswork, though.

[Squaredeal Sten]

There is no canon comment that I can find on pre-Gods-War temple counts for any of the gods.  I suppose YGMV.  but...

Lightbringers page 127 says when Umath "provided the world" with his children (pre Gods War)  Storm Bull contained "mindless v9olence, raw strength, ..."

That is often not an appealing package, so it should be understandable that folks with more Man rune that Beast rune woud not emphasize his worship. 

In the Golden Age, a less forbidding emphasis when he married (or at least bred with)  Eiritha in Genert's Garden, but on the male side the appeal is with "his sons" according to what is written..

The fight against Chaos was Storm Bull's  big opportunity to be loved. 

To sum it up, before the Chaos fighting there is / was  little reason to expect Storm Bull to be a popular object of worship.  And even afterward, his chaos fighting specialty is very nice to have around, but too much of the mindless violence is not good for day to day tribal life, which requires cooperation. It is far better for most men to worship Waha, 

 

[Shiningbrow]

Ok, thanks all for the replies.

I should have mentioned that I don't have any of the more recent publications (such as Prosopaedia), so I can't go and look that up.

My question started from a different thread (which started from a different OP :p) which suggested that Stormbull isn't merely a mindless racist killer.... and yet, that does indeed seem to be the go to and reason for his continued existence in the world... Without SB's anti-Chaos magic, he'd be a nothing (as far as worship is considered)... or at best, sort of vaguely remembered as once being important "Thanks grandad, but see you later".

There's no active worship of the Stormbull as a Founder, nor is there any magics from him in any other role than as a mindless Chaos-hating berserker - is my point.

[Nick Brooke]

From my old piece on The Oronin Valley:

Quote

Bisos and Eses

The worshippers of the Bull Father and Cow Mother are predominantly agrarian, although many nobles, soldiers and freeholders also worship the Sacred Pair: these can trace their descent from the god, and claim the right to bear arms and determine their own destiny.

Bisos arrived late in the Darkness and is regarded by Carmanians as the Right Hand of Idovanus, one of the Creator's primary helpers on earth. He is the Noble Ancestor of many Carmanians and Protector of the Shah, and in that loyal service he continues to serve the Red Emperor. Bisos is also the Mediator, the sacrificial bull who carries messages between men and the gods.

- - -

Tawenos: A small city south-east of Lake Oronin, the ancient centre of the followers of Bisos and Eses, the Bull God and Cow Goddess, who brought meat, grain and beer to an oppressed land of starving cities and desperate survivors. They are still worshipped by highland freeholders, soldiers and nobles in Worian and elsewhere.

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Nick Brooke

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I should have mentioned that I don't have any of the more recent publications (such as Prosopaedia), so I can't go and look that up.

In short, yes there are other local masks of Storm Bull, like Bisos who is the god of free men. I've always seen these other bull gods as the counterpart of whoever is the cattle goddess (mask of Eiritha).

Free resources:

• https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s=bisos
• https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s=bemur
• https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s=Tawar
• https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s="bull+god"

See also https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/swish-wrap.cgi?query=bisos&submit=Search!&metaname=swishdefault&sort=swishrank

[Shiningbrow]

5 hours ago, David Scott said:

In short, yes there are other local masks of Storm Bull, like Bisos who is the god of free men. I've always seen these other bull gods as the counterpart of whoever is the cattle goddess (mask of Eiritha).

Free resources:

• https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s=bisos
• https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s=bemur
• https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s=Tawar
• https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/?s="bull+god"

See also https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/swish-wrap.cgi?query=bisos&submit=Search!&metaname=swishdefault&sort=swishrank

My main question relates to whether all Stormbullies in Prax & Sartar regions will always be psychopathic Chaos-hating berserkers... I haven't really seen anything yet that counters that idea.

Does the Prosopaedia have a lot more information about Bisos e al.? Because the links you've sent don't actually have much (usually, just a name)

(perhaps I should have posted this in the RQ thread, because of the other information I'd be after... such as a Rune spell list)

[mfbrandi]

10 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

There's no active worship of the Stormbull as a Founder, nor is there any magics from him in any other role than as a mindless Chaos-hating berserker - is my point.

If we view Storm Bull as father and protector of the herds, he failed his beast children and the land. Under cover of Darkness and war, his son Waha staged a coup (aided by Tada, who buried Eiritha): where once the herds were free people, now they are slaves of their predators, the humans:

• Death was fooled, but since that time Eiritha may never again walk freely upon Prax … Neither parent god could return to the place where Waha taught. Instead people learned the worship of the daughters of Eiritha, called the Herd Protectresses, and of Waha, who knew the secrets of the Founding Spirits of the tribes. — Cults of Prax Classic, p. 27

So all the old guy can do now is sit in the Storm Hills and talk about back in the day when he killed his brother and kinda–sorta fought his nephew to a standstill. Accounts — it seems — vary:

• His unearthly task was awesome for even a god, but he succeeded and sent the Devil plummeting to death. — CoPC, p. 12
   
• The effort nearly slew Storm Bull, and he could not finish off the helpless Devil. Storm Bull dragged himself from the still raging battle, and hid in the distant Storm Hills. — CoPC, p. 18

In the latter version, he could only summon the Block thanks to power supplied by Eiritha, but one wonders whether even that is wishful thinking and the collision of Devil and Spike fragment was simply a case of opposite poles attracting. However, if we allow that Storm Bull pinned a still-living Devil to the landscape, that fits nicely with this passage:

• Following the departure of light came the Greater Dark, when Fear and Death began openly seeking victims among the immortals. Heedless of the results of his aiding the forces he wished to conquer, the Storm Bull was headmost in combat, and introduced Death to his people when he slew vile Ragnaglar with his horns of iron. But even with such victories the god could not stop the devastation of the land caused by the coming of the Devil. — CoPC, p. 18

By reacting with fear and violence himself, Storm Bull ensures that they will be problems ever after for his people? The actions of the various Storm brothers bring about the world of Time, which world must include Death and Entropy ($5-dollar euphemism for Chaos) and does include an awful lot of fear. Again, the Devil is part of the landscape, now, and Storm Bull did that.

Where the Devil is killed, the synthesis in the Underworld is facilitated; in the version where he is not, the synthesis can be seen in action by anyone getting too close to the Block. SB killing the Devil can be part of the Net myth, or his fighting the Devil to a standstill can be an alternative to it … or an echo of it. Orlanth kills Yelm; SB wounds Lodril. Truth-runed Dayzatar (loses Fire) and Humakt (loses Storm) are aloof. Parallel trios of brothers/fragments.

Consider also this from The Book of Drastic Resolutions:

• Wakboth is the Guise of the Devil — the insulation between the Devil and Glorantha. He was the ultimate scab formed by the world to protect itself from the invasion of chaos. — Lords of Terror, p. 87

What then is the difference between the Storm Bull and his nephew, Wakboth? Both are last ditch measures taken by Cosmos to protect it from the Void? But the author of Drastic Resolutions was a lunatic, right? RIGHT? 😉

But maybe this is all Wahaist propaganda — think of the way Yelmites are happy to portray Lodril as an idiot dragging his dick through the dirt. In Prax, the new regime is happy for the old patriarch to be painted as no better than the psycho bikers who are steered toward the tattered remnant of his cult in the hope that their lives will at least be short — “Dorastor is that way. Go. Be glorious.” And maybe — just maybe — Waha is the son of Storm Bull and Eiritha only in the sense that he usurped them; it is a move to claim legitimacy. (But see also Oedipus and Laius — I have never liked the way Waha looks at Jocasta Eiritha. And would you ask a Zeus-worshipping society for a character reference for Cronus?)

Enough witless — even by my low standards — rambling for one day.

[All clod-hopping bold emphasis in quotes is mine.]

Edited November 2, 2023 by mfbrandi
italics

[metcalph]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

My main question relates to whether all Stormbullies in Prax & Sartar regions will always be psychopathic Chaos-hating berserkers... I haven't really seen anything yet that counters that idea.

Does the Prosopaedia have a lot more information about Bisos e al.? Because the links you've sent don't actually have much (usually, just a name)

(perhaps I should have posted this in the RQ thread, because of the other information I'd be after... such as a Rune spell list)

Bisos is remembered for defeating YarGan and sending the Blue People away.  His father is Tawars or KefTavar and his mother is Esus (think Zeus and Euopra).  Since Tawar is a Hsunchen God descended from Hikym and Storm Bull is the son of Umath and Mikyh, it's fair to state that they are the same.

The Entekosiad has a few things to say about Bisos, such as how he defeated the enemy god.

Quote

But the enemy cheated, and with one step to the side he turned and thrust his spear deep through the bull's shoulders, pinning him to the ground. With his sharp knife, the foe cut Bisos' throat so his red blood spilled upon the courtyard. Then the mighty killer laughed, and rose, throwing his bloody knife to the side, and turned to the people of Bisos.

The people of Bisos waited, not fleeing, and they confronted their foe without fear or anger.

This puzzled the monster god. He looked upon their intent faces and asked, "What is the secret of this tranquility?" He was distracted. He did not see Bisos rise again from death, scarred but whole and alive.

Entekosiad p68

This seems similar to the Earthpower Runespell and so is apparently Bisos's runespell in action.  Now Bisos immediately does the same thing to his fallen foe:

Quote

He said that his foe had been worthy, deserving more than eternal obscurity. Bisos took the unliving pieces of IvinZoraRu, and said that they would be worshipped as the god UpelviDedi5 and laid them upon the bare field. He got the Five Sheaves, the Four Supporters, the Eight Leaves, and the Seven Spices. These were used to make the body. He assembled them, and made UpelviDedi whole again.

Entekosiad p68

The action is repeated by his cult in history:

Quote

When the Great Prophet (Carmanos - PHM) first revealed the Higher Truths of Idovanus, there was inevitably resistance from the entrenched priesthoods. The
bisosae summoned their own Great Bull, it to come down from heavens destroy the upstart. Instead, however; it was slain by the Prophet, proving that his Truths had the Mandate of Heaven. For a while the Bull God was confined in the Underworld, and his people subjected to abject servitude.

Entekosiad p73

This is illustrated with a relief of Mithras killing a Bull, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauroctony

Then:

Quote

[...] we see Bisos paying homage to Idovanus with Carmanos looking on. In return, Bisos has received the halo which is characteristic of Carmanian divinities. Bisos
was slain by Carmanos, who declared that Idovanus was above all other gods. Yet, when Carmanos was stymied by the powers of the Dark Gods, he used the "Dethronement of the Unjust" Rites. This action strengthened Bisos, for it was successful only because Bisos had first performed it. Empowered by the Prophet of Idovanus, Bisos rose and went to Carmanos, who saw thereby that even his own Highest God relied upon the other gods to do his work. At this, Idovanus blessed Bisos (and some others), as shown here. [snipped Lunar interpretation]

Entekosiad p75

So Bisos's runespell is the Dethronement of the Unjust in which the caster sacrifices himself for a greater victory.  Bisos is the sacrificial bull, so to speak.

I think Storm Bull's cult in Carmania and Seshnela is constrained by their submission to the Invisible God.  They still fight as typical bikies and berserks and when bereft of the civilizing influences of the Invisible God, rule as such (cf the Bull Shahs).

.

 

[Shiningbrow]

13 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

If we view Storm Bull as father and protector of the herds, he failed his beast children and the land. Under cover of Darkness and war, his son Waha staged a coup (aided by Tada, who buried Eiritha): where once the herds were free people, now they are slaves of their predators, the humans:

• Death was fooled, but since that time Eiritha may never again walk freely upon Prax … Neither parent god could return to the place where Waha taught. Instead people learned the worship of the daughters of Eiritha, called the Herd Protectresses, and of Waha, who knew the secrets of the Founding Spirits of the tribes. — Cults of Prax Classic, p. 27

So all the old guy can do now is sit in the Storm Hills and talk about back in the day when he killed his brother and kinda–sorta fought his nephew to a standstill. Accounts — it seems — vary:

• His unearthly task was awesome for even a god, but he succeeded and sent the Devil plummeting to death. — CoPC, p. 12
   
• The effort nearly slew Storm Bull, and he could not finish off the helpless Devil. Storm Bull dragged himself from the still raging battle, and hid in the distant Storm Hills. — CoPC, p. 18

In the latter version, he could only summon the Block thanks to power supplied by Eiritha, but one wonders whether even that is wishful thinking and the collision of Devil and Spike fragment was simply a case of opposite poles attracting. However, if we allow that Storm Bull pinned a still-living Devil to the landscape, that fits nicely with this passage:

• Following the departure of light came the Greater Dark, when Fear and Death began openly seeking victims among the immortals. Heedless of the results of his aiding the forces he wished to conquer, the Storm Bull was headmost in combat, and introduced Death to his people when he slew vile Ragnaglar with his horns of iron. But even with such victories the god could not stop the devastation of the land caused by the coming of the Devil. — CoPC, p. 18

By reacting with fear and violence himself, Storm Bull ensures that they will be problems ever after for his people? The actions of the various Storm brothers bring about the world of Time, which world must include Death and Entropy ($5-dollar euphemism for Chaos) and does include an awful lot of fear. Again, the Devil is part of the landscape, now, and Storm Bull did that.

Where the Devil is killed, the synthesis in the Underworld is facilitated; in the version where he is not, the synthesis can be seen in action by anyone getting too close to the Block. SB killing the Devil can be part of the Net myth, or his fighting the Devil to a standstill can be an alternative to it … or an echo of it. Orlanth kills Yelm; SB wounds Lodril. Truth-runed Dayzatar (loses Fire) and Humakt (loses Storm) are aloof. Parallel trios of brothers/fragments.

Consider also this from The Book of Drastic Resolutions:

• Wakboth is the Guise of the Devil — the insulation between the Devil and Glorantha. He was the ultimate scab formed by the world to protect itself from the invasion of chaos. — Lords of Terror, p. 87

What then is the difference between the Storm Bull and his nephew, Wakboth? Both are last ditch measures taken by Cosmos to protect it from the Void? But the author of Drastic Resolutions was a lunatic, right? RIGHT? 😉

But maybe this is all Wahaist propaganda — think of the way Yelmites are happy to portray Lodril as an idiot dragging his dick through the dirt. In Prax, the new regime is happy for the old patriarch to be painted as no better than the psycho bikers who are steered toward the tattered remnant of his cult in the hope that their lives will at least be short — “Dorastor is that way. Go. Be glorious.” And maybe — just maybe — Waha is the son of Storm Bull and Eiritha only in the sense that he usurped them; it is a move to claim legitimacy. (But see also Oedipus and Laius — I have never liked the way Waha looks at Jocasta Eiritha. And would you ask a Zeus-worshipping society for a character reference for Cronus?)

Enough witless — even by my low standards — rambling for one day.

[All clod-hopping bold emphasis in quotes is mine.]

I like it! It would explain a lot!

I do like the idea of opposites attracting - Spike & Devil... I don't see SB being able to summon it, and 'coincidence' doesn't work. So, it's either that, or greater forces at work.

However, it leaves me thinking that much of this is merely the current time explanation for what happened in the past for why things are as they are now - similar to how those of ancient cultures came up with those stories to explain the present (for them).

 

[French Desperate WindChild]

i see storm bul from the fear perspective :

 

there are different fear answers :

- submission

- flight

- violence

 

I think that when the world was so desperatly "invaded" by chaos, a lot of gods were as anyone in a mental disposition like "Even if I fear it I will face chaos but I know I will lose" when the Storm bull was only in "I will destroy what I fear, there is no other option, the rest has no importance". And when the Devil fights with both physical violence and psychological violence, he was unable to have any psychological hold on the Bull, and then was defeated

that's the first point what is storm bull for me : a raging / hater god ,. That doesn't mean he is not able to have friend, not able to have love, peace, loyalty etc... Just Storm Bull is not able to keep peaceful when there is a big frustration or a danger

 

On this basis, it is normal to not have too many stormbullers in his sphere of influence. Most people want to live quietly (at least among their own clan / family) Managing two or three haters in a clan is possible, managing 50% of haters in a clan is just the end of the clan.

In the same way, Storm bullers are not "those who hate chaos". About anyone worshiping the storm pantheon hates chaos.

the difference with others is that Storm bullers, facing chaos, will not hear at all the fear they may have, there is no option they must destroy it, their own survival doesn't matter. If they feel any fear, their answer will be more rage to destroy this fear. If they think they will die, their answer will be more rage, more violence, more destruction, no other option.

For me, you don't choose Storm bull (or the god doesn't choose you) because you hate chaos. You choose Storm Bull, because your answer to any threat is always violence, total violence.

 

[mfbrandi]

6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

However, it leaves me thinking that much of this is merely the current time explanation for what happened in the past for why things are as they are now — similar to how those of ancient cultures came up with those stories to explain the present (for them).

IMHO, this is often a good way to look at myths, but — again, IMHO — I don’t think we should think of it as poor history or worse science. The point isn’t to look for true causes, rather it is to look for a satisfying story that “fits” the current facts: the right myth is the one that makes people think yes, that is why!° But the feeling of satisfaction is no measure of truth — no way to do science or history. Myth is none the worse for that. People in ancient cultures may not have had history and science as we understand them, but they weren’t idiots, and I find it hard to believe they used myth as a half-arsed drop-in replacement, though smarter people than me — there are billions — have disagreed.

(Some like to say that myths are true but don’t give the facts, but that leaves us with having to swallow p & ¬p, due to contradictory “true” myths. It is only a game, so let’s not try to rewrite logic just because “truth” is a prestigious word.)

———————————————————————————
° If this seems like it is stolen from Wittgenstein on psychoanalysis (he didn’t consider Freud to be doing science), well …

Edited November 3, 2023 by mfbrandi
comma

[Akhôrahil]

On 11/1/2023 at 11:26 AM, Shiningbrow said:

So, Stormbull was around before Chaos came into the world - which is where he got most of his reputation.

But, is there anything about worshipping this aspect of him without the associated Chaos-killing?? (as in, full temples/shrines without even knowledge about it?? Much like other gods who aren't aware of other aspects worshipped in the rest of lozenge)

Or - is all worship of him brought back to this one essential feature?

I think worship of Storm Bull as a mere berserker warrior god works fine, and in my Glorantha, the amount of focus on the Chaos-killing varies by location (the overwhelming focus in Prax, much less for the Bisos cult).

Some places, like the KoW and Charg, worship "all war gods", and I think this means that the warlike aspect rather than the chaos-killing aspect is focused upon. 

[Akhôrahil]

On 11/1/2023 at 9:24 PM, g33k said:

Male-fertility is -- I think -- broadly nerfed in Genertela because Genert fell in the Earthfall.

Or say rather that it had to be replaced, such as with Storm Bull and even Orlanth in a way (his rains are part of fertility).

[Richard S.]

I think the early Bisos cult might have existed without focusing on the chaos killing, but they've probably been exposed to those myths by now. There's probably not a lot of chaos that needs killing in the west reaches though, so they can afford to focus on other aspects (which the Lunars are all too happy to encourage). Maybe he has an association with Idovanus, but I don't think that provides any magic.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Richard S.

[Akhôrahil]

33 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

There's probably not a lot of chaos that needs killing in the west reaches though

Not that they're allowed to kill, at least...

[g33k]

23 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

My main question relates to whether all Stormbullies in Prax & Sartar regions will always be psychopathic Chaos-hating berserkers... I haven't really seen anything yet that counters that idea...

So long as the Cult features the duality of "Sense Chaos" + mandate to go fight it -- which not all Bull cults seem to have -- I think the Prax/Sartar Uroxi only come in that flavor.

Outside Bull-Cultists (Uroxi worshiping other Masks) seem free from that stricture.

A unified "Cult of Urox" (for whom "Storm Bull" is one psychopathic chaos-hating sub-cult) seems entirely YGWV'able.