Potato distribution, existance, and origin

[Malin]

Alright, my search skills have failed me, so I put my trust in the forums. And please, I am mostly asking for official facts, not how it is in your glorantha.

1. Do potatoes exist in Glorantha? I have seen it referenced in passing, but never as more than an aside in adventures.
2. Are potatoes mentioned in current Chaosium RuneQuest: Glorantha material or only in past editions and third-party materials?
3. Where is the origin of potatoes? Is one mentioned?
4. Are there any mythical connections? Is there a potato goddess like there is a grain goddess?
5. In fact, who is the goddess of root vegetables? Is that Asrelia's domain? Does she have a bunch of little "bulb babies" in her arms that she lets people pull up?
6. What is the distribution range for potatoes? Is it a Lunar thing? Pamaltea? Esrolia? Sartar?

The reason why I am asking is that it feels like potatoes tend to become a big thing in most cultures once introduced, at least if they are not ideal for growing grain, and yet I see no myths about it. Right now, my impression is that potatoes fill a similar role to beets and other root vegetables, something to put in the pot for poor people, but only as an addition to the main staples of grain/bread. Or that the mention of potatoes has simply slipped into adventure modules of the past because it's such a big thing in our society that it becomes a natural thing to add but nobody really gave it any thought or context.

[metcalph]

16 minutes ago, Malin said:

Alright, my search skills have failed me, so I put my trust in the forums. And please, I am mostly asking for official facts, not how it is in your glorantha.

1. Do potatoes exist in Glorantha? I have seen it referenced in passing, but never as more than an aside in adventures.
2. Are potatoes mentioned in current Chaosium RuneQuest: Glorantha material or only in past editions and third-party materials?
3. Where is the origin of potatoes? Is one mentioned?
4. Are there any mythical connections? Is there a potato goddess like there is a grain goddess?
5. In fact, who is the goddess of root vegetables? Is that Asrelia's domain? Does she have a bunch of little "bulb babies" in her arms that she lets people pull up?
6. What is the distribution range for potatoes? Is it a Lunar thing? Pamaltea? Esrolia? Sartar?

No.  There was a mention of potato bread p40 and potatoes p54 in Cults of Prax but these have since been redacted.  

A Goddess of Edible Roots is Thilla (Cults of Runequest: Prosopedia p121).  There will probably be similar goddesses all over gloratha but they have less impact than the grain goddesses.  

 

 

[Malin]

Perfect! That was what I was hoping to hear. I've been living with Cults of Prax in my head so long that it's been hard to sort out what is current and what is not. And thank you for spotting Thilla, I love her already.

 

[Snugz]

It's funny, I was wondering this myself lately as it came up in-game, and I thought no, that's too arcane, no one has answered this; and I browsed the Guide and that seemed to confirm my suspicion, and then I Googled "glorantha potato" and found two threads with extensive, sagastic discussions of potatoes in Glorantha:

and

Especially, GtG does say the Doraddi use "root vegetables". So here it is not a case of YGWV, but rather GtGDNC (GtG does not contradict), as potatoes are root vegetables.

[Malin]

Yeah, I've seen the forum threads too, just wasn't able to parse any modern answers for them! Thank you though, this leaves things nicely open for a possible potato heroquest eventually...

[Nick Brooke]

Greg Stafford, Sandy Petersen and Steve Perrin all demonstrably thought that Glorantha - and more specifically the Lunar Empire - had potatoes. They've been a feature of Glorantha since the earliest publications (see threads above: White Bear & Red Moon and Cults of Prax both featured Lunar potatoes). 

Jeff Richard thinks the Lunar Empire doesn't have potatoes, because nor did the Roman Empire, and we know that the two are identical in every way. (Or something like that.) So he's tried to retcon potatoes, with hilarious results.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Nick Brooke

[Malin]

Oh no, are the potato wars the new Yelmalio/Elmal frontline? What did I stumble into?

[jajagappa]

5 minutes ago, Malin said:

are the potato wars the new Yelmalio/Elmal frontline? What did I stumble into?

Mashed potatoes? 😉 

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Malin said:

1. Do potatoes exist in Glorantha? I have seen it referenced in passing, but never as more than an aside in adventures.
2. Are potatoes mentioned in current Chaosium RuneQuest: Glorantha material or only in past editions and third-party materials?
3. Where is the origin of potatoes? Is one mentioned?
4. Are there any mythical connections? Is there a potato goddess like there is a grain goddess?
5. In fact, who is the goddess of root vegetables? Is that Asrelia's domain? Does she have a bunch of little "bulb babies" in her arms that she lets people pull up?
6. What is the distribution range for potatoes? Is it a Lunar thing? Pamaltea? Esrolia? Sartar?

1. Depends on whose Glorantha.

2. Only in past materials.

3. In olden times, the Blue Moon Plateau was mentioned.

4. I personally like the idea of root vegetable goddesses similar to grain goddesses. That makes sense in my Glorantha. My Imther work has a number of favored root vegetables (and minor goddesses, daughters of Ernalda, who are associated with them).

5. They are clearly an earth vegetable. Maybe these are the first children of Flamal and Asrelia from before the Golden Age?

6. I like the connection to the Moon goddesses (moons within the Earth), so I'd distribute to the Blue Moon Plateau and the plains of Pamaltela where the Artmali Empire once was. Not Esrolia or Sartar though.

[Brian Duguid]

Quoting Sandy Petersen: "The Blue Moon is undead. It was killed during the Gods War and buried ... as a potato. Literally. Potatoes are the Blue Moon plant, because they give life in the ground".

Make of that what you will.

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Malin said:

And thank you for spotting Thilla, I love her already.

And don't forget that Rakenveg/Eurmal is the Carrot God of Dara Happa! (see Guide v2, p.678)

[Erol of Backford]

 

59 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Carrot God of Dara Happa

Gloranthian root vegetables... Jeff use to post Gloranthian food stuffs... didn't see any lately. IIRC some of those dishes may have had potatoes?

Actually an interesting idea with refugees from war, persecution of religion, etc. there would be a large need for Glorantian Potato Socialism for the masses. The Winter from Windstop adding to the need for foodstuffs?

But the Lunars are the ones with the spud gun... the eyes of the Bat were the first thing I thought of, spuds.

[mfbrandi]

3 hours ago, Nick Brooke said:

So he's tried to retcon potatoes, with hilarious results.

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

They are clearly an earth vegetable.

Perhaps — like Argrath — Jeff is a helpless Lunar puppet/secretly pushing a Lunar agenda (season to taste). Consider the humble potato:

• contested status: it belongs/it doesn’t belong
• now you see it, now you don’t
• it is still there, but it is invisible
• it is a root vegetable, but it is not a root
• it is related to a pretty/pretty poisonous lady (spin as you will)
• comes in red, white, and blue varieties
• it is part of a balanced diet

Clearly, the potato is a moon vegetable. If Jeff just accepted spuds into Glorantha, mightn’t that make them less Lunar? Who knows?

Edited December 3, 2023 by mfbrandi

[scott-martin]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Carrot God of Dara Happa

We could probably find traces of an entheogenic "god carrot" in the dawn ages, possibly in the Henjarl or some other wetland. On one hand, distinguishing it from lethal water hemlock is an obvious challenge but those who guess right are rewarded with visions and liberated from normative diets. On the other, only the desperately hungry have a strong motive to even try. 

Read potato throughout. Yes, the consultant told us to encourage the Queen Anne's Lace in the meadow but who is eager to grate it into the burdock?

[Akhôrahil]

While I can see the point of maintaining a cordon sanitaire against New World plants in certain fantasy settings, no-one questions the maize in Glorantha, and surely the tomato exists as a Lunar-associated veggie? So it's the poor potato that is singled out? 

[Akhôrahil]

14 hours ago, Snugz said:

Especially, GtG does say the Doraddi use "root vegetables". So here it is not a case of YGWV, but rather GtGDNC (GtG does not contradict), as potatoes are root vegetables.

Root vegetables in Dragon Pass are both canon and supported since forever as well (in some texts seen as low-class food).

What My Father Told Me: "only the poor, like your no-good cousins at the Rotroot place, eat only root vegetables"

RQG Core Rules, Farmer: "They raise a mixture of animals, grains, and roots, and are mostly self-supporting." (This makes roots seem pretty important, as it's they're mentioned alongside grain and animals.)

Edited December 4, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

5. They are clearly an earth vegetable. Maybe these are the first children of Flamal and Asrelia from before the Golden Age?

I would suggest a myth about how potatoes once grew as fruits in the air, but had to hide in the Earth during the Darkness, and never emerged from there until harvested by men.

[John Biles]

2 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I would suggest a myth about how potatoes once grew as fruits in the air, but had to hide in the Earth during the Darkness, and never emerged from there until harvested by men.

The Solar myth of potatoes would be that they were the result of Lodril crashing into the Earth and surrendering to the lusts of the Earth Goddesses, thus engendering the whole family of the root vegetables, the favored foods of lowly peasants and too unclean for the noble leaders of the Solars.

 

[Malin]

5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

surely the tomato exists as a Lunar-associated veggie?

Isn't tomatoes an Esrolia thing? Or did I dream that?

And I think the reason why potatoes are a point of contention (at least for me) is that they are a core staple crop that yet somehow has not left any greater mythic trace in Glorantha. Potatoes are just not another root vegetable; where they become cultivated, they become a bit like rice, community-bearing crops that can feed large amounts of people on more marginal soils without tools other than a pick or a digging stick. Very space efficient too. Unlike beets, carrots, and other roots, they become a core part of food culture. The main calory provider.

I don't think it's a question of "american continent foods," Maize is here, but it also has massive mythical underpinnings so it becomes obvious how important a part it is of Lunar culture. It's not a question of being so entrenched that it can't be removed by "purists," it's a matter of actually fitting into the setting just because it is so entrenched in myth.

And meanwhile, the potato... nothing.

One might argue it's the same for any vegetable, but the potato is more than a vegetable.

tldr: Glorantha cultures are the old fertile crescent grain-based cultures lacking any potato myths.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Malin

[Rodney Dangerduck]

The more important question is how do Gloranthans pronounce potato?

Let's call the whole thing off ...

[John Biles]

1 hour ago, Malin said:

Isn't tomatoes an Esrolia thing? Or did I dream that?

 

The only mention of them in the Guide is Fonrit.

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, Malin said:

Isn't tomatoes an Esrolia thing? Or did I dream that?

Chili pepper is, at least. I think.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Akhôrahil

[John Biles]

31 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Chili pepper is, at least. I think.

By the Guide -

Fonrit

Kralorela

East Islands, home to the goddess of chili peppers, Orandaliel

 

[Joerg]

If we are talking tubers, why not something like topinambur (also called Jerusalem artichoke or earth apple)? The plant is from North America, which is generally a good reason to have it in Glorantha. It looks a bit like small sun flowers, possibly reflecting that "seeded by Lodril" better than the poisonous tomato which is grown for its tubers.

[Malin]

Funny really, me (and many with me it seems) have been buying into Esrolian propaganda, that surely they have all the best foodstuffs... 🌶️🍅

On a separate note, sunchokes are delicious, I love them!