Best d100 Rules to Run 'Land of Ninja'

[Stan Shinn]

I have a copy of the 'Land of Ninja' box set that was published during the Runequest 3rd Edition era. It's basically the old Bushido fantasy-Japan setting but updated with d100 rules.

Is anyone familiar enough with Runequest 3rd Edition and/or Land of Ninja to help me know if the latest edition of BRP (BRUGE technically, but I still think of the old acronym) is a good fit to run Land of Ninja?

Glancing through the Land of Ninja materials it seems like BRP and using the optional hit point locations rules would do the trick. But were there any Runequest 3e rules that are materially different than BRP? Land of Ninja has it's own magic system so any quirks with Runequest 3e magic might not apply..

(Side note: this is what the Land of Ninja box set looks like in case you're interested: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/catalogue/publishers/avalon-hill/land-of-ninja-rq3-box-07/)

[Runeblogger]

Land of Ninja uses the Divine/Spirit/Sorcery rules from RQ3 that can also be found in The Magic Book. You could either get a copy of that supplement or just use the magic in Land of Ninja with little effort. Divine magic always works, but you need to sacrifice POW in exchange for learning the spells. Spirit magic works with POWx5. Sorcery is a bit more complicated to explain. 😄

What kind of campaign do you have in mind?

[Nozbat]

I played in Land of the Ninja @Stan Shinn but never GM'd it..but it was 30 years ago. We had lots of fun with it, including identical twins who had a good and bad reputations and no-one could tell them apart, developing new skills such as impressive shoulder shrug (as in the film Yojimbo, where the hero shoulder shrugs after dispatching the baddies).. a glamrock band of Biwa players... as well as trying to outdo each other in Tea ceremonies, flying kites, creating artwork and playing Go. It was fun and different from the Glorantha-Nordic Vikings-CoC we were playing at the time. 

RQ3 is very similar to BR:UGE so with a few tweaks here and there it should really not be difficult to run. If I remember correctly (though I may be mixing this up), Spirit Magic was gained through Kami and as @Runeblogger says Divine Magic tended to be one use, sacrificing POW to gain as we didn't have many priests. As I recall Japanese society is so stratified that it is difficult to have many different professions. You were not able to carry weapons if you weren't a samurai or at best an ashigaru. We were also playing at the era of black powder weapons which was the first time we had done so.

Good luck with the campaign, I think if your players are up for it, it will be fun. If I wasn't so caught up in running other campaigns and writing stuff, I'd hunt out my old copy of it, although I think it might have been a hardback Games Workshop version rather than the Avalon Hill boxed set

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, Stan Shinn said:

I have a copy of the 'Land of Ninja' box set that was published during the Runequest 3rd Edition era. It's basically the old Bushido fantasy-Japan setting but updated with d100 rules.

Is anyone familiar enough with Runequest 3rd Edition and/or Land of Ninja to help me know if the latest edition of BRP (BRUGE technically, but I still think of the old acronym) is a good fit to run Land of Ninja?

 

I probably am familiar enough with RQ3 and LotN to help here. I'd say BRP isn't a good fit. It's okay, but since LotN was written for RQ3, RQ3 is the better fit. There are differences between RQ3 and BRP UGE. Some more significant than others. It's possibly to turn the BRP rules into RQ3 with a few adjustments. It's also possible to adapt LotN to UGE, but you might need to adjust a few abilities and spells.

But any edition of RQ would be a better fit. RQ2 is fairly cheap and available, and won't bog you down with a lot of Glorathan stuff that wouldn't apply to a LotN game. It's not quite RQ3, but it would cover the spells.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Stan Shinn said:

Glancing through the Land of Ninja materials it seems like BRP and using the optional hit point locations rules would do the trick. But were there any Runequest 3e rules that are materially different than BRP? Land of Ninja has it's own magic system so any quirks with Runequest 3e magic might not apply..

There are differences, just how important they are may or may not matter much to you. Here are some off the top of my head:

• RQ3 used separate Attack and Parry skills instead of one skill for both, and the two skills were governed by different category modifiers. But LotN used Kenjutsu skill to combine the pair, so this would be an easy non-fix. But its worth being aware of for how RQ treated all the other melee weapons. 
• In RQ3 weapons and shields had armor points (approximately 2/3rds the value of UGE Hit Points). When you parried, most weapons blocked damage equal to their armor points. If the AP were exceeded then the remainder went on to the target and the parrying item AP were reduced by 1 point. Most parrying weapons would do damage to the attacking weapon if they parried a failed attack. Special Success parries prevented the parrying weapon from  being damaged, and a critical success blocked all damage. Note that this meant that it was hard to completely parry powerful blows. 
• Skills were limited to 100% except for skills with a positive category modifier, which could improve whenever someone rolled over 100 for improvement.
• The Skill category modifier was added to improvement rolls. Thus if a character who had a good category modifier would tend to improve faster. 
• BRP's Sorcery was based off of RQ's Battle Magic/Spririt Magic system. Most of the spells are basically the same but with a new name and a few chaotic  tweaks  gained from Elric! Battle/Spirit Magic from any edition of RQ would be an even better fit.
• RQ3 Divine Magic was a more powerful longer lasting magic that required the sacrifice of permanent POW to acquire. Some Divine Magic was reusable, which meat you could get it back by praying at a temple, while other spells were one use, and you'd need to sacrifice more POW to require them. Again, any edition of RQ could cover this type of magic better than BRP.
• Oh, in RQ if you won a POW vs POW roll against someone with a higher (maybe equal or higher) POW score you got a chance to improve your POW score at the end of the session. You also got 1 point per year if you were in a cult and joined in the usual ceremonies. This was how you picked up the POW to spend on Rune Divivne Magic
• RQ3 made use of the Strike Rank System, and that would matter in a LotN game. Especially for Iaijutsu. If you use DEX ranks instead then you would need to give DEX rank bonuses for Iaijutsu success levels. (+5/+10+/20 sounds good off the top of my head)

 

 

 

Edited April 14 by Atgxtg

[Stan Shinn]

Thanks everyone so much for all these insightful answers!

My campaign is a few months away, but I will spend these months in advance looking over the rules and doing some prep work. I will also mine the old Bushido game for random tables and such.

The campaign I plan will get firmed up in a Session 0 (getting feedback from the players), but right now my thought is to either set it in the 11th century or the 18th century. I'll need to read up on the two eras to better understand which would be better. I'm reading through Lone Wolf and Cub and love those gritty storylines.

For anyone interested, here is the sketch of my campaign, flagged as a spoiler in case my players ever come here.

The Path of Meifumado Campaign

Spoiler

Part 1: Setting the Stage. PCs are samurai and other loyalist in the same han (province or clan). Several adventures to establish NPCs, encounter rival factions (clans) in other hans, and build time to flesh out the benevolent family of the lord (daimyo of 15th century or later, zuryo if earlier) and his family, to whom the PCs are loyal. We establish lore in this Game of Thrones type world of deadly treachery, including key mythological lore such as the nature of Amaterasu (the sun goddess) and Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto (her husband, the moon god).

Part 2: Treachery.  Treachery from a diabolical rival clan earlier encountered in Part 1. The lord of the PCs han is framed for a crime he didn't commit. The lord is killed and the young son and heir of the lord is seemingly killed. The PCs are banished as ronin as their han falls under the control of enemy clan (who were behind the framing and death of the PC's lord, but the PCs have no proof of this). Later it is found that the lord's young son is still alive -- a loyal samurai substituted his own son in order to keep the heir alive. The surviving young lord is given to a remote Buddhist temple for care. The PCs are given advice by a monk that should they seek revenge and the restoration of the true heir to the han, they must walk the path of hell and dwell in meifumado (the Buddhist hell; the way of demons and damnation). 

Part 3: The Path of Meifumado (Hell). The bulk of the campaign are adventures as the PCs wander and take odd jobs (often assassination jobs which causes moral quandaries) as ronin, as the PCs themselves fight to survive assassination attempts from the diabolical rival clan, and encounter mythological spirits who challenge, tempt, and occasionally illuminate the path forward. Thematically, the encounters have themes centered in the Buddhist Three Poisons (hatred, greed, ignorance) and the PCs have opportunities to embrace the three opposite Virtues ((loving-kindness, generosity, and wisdom). One or more times, if the PCs have acted virtuously, a kirin (a powerful mythological hooved beast) is seen in the distance nodding approval of their behavior. Slowly the PCs find clues to uncover proof of the treachery and formulate a plan that lead to the restoration of their han and the child lord and heir.

Part 4: The Blessing of the Kirin. The PCs prove the treachery of the diabolical rival clan. Despite this proof, the military might of the rival clan makes retaking the han nearly impossible. Despite the overwhelming odds, a series of small skirmish battles enable the PCs to finally be able to confront the rival clan in their castle. On the eve before this final battle, the kirin again appears to them, and the voice of Amaterasu the sun goddess speaks from the creature. The kirin is an avatar of the goddess, and the PCs are given permission to each cut a lock of hair from the beast's great mane and use them as magic totems, which for one day starting at sunrise will make the PC's weapons unbreakable, and keep them alive (regardless of wounds) until dusk when the full moon appears, and with it, the appearance of the moon god Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto. The full moon appears at sunset, minutes after the PCs have magically prevailed over their enemies. When he appears, Tsukuyomi-no-Mikoto will restore the natural order and the totems of kirin hair will cease to have effect. Any PCs who had fallen to 0 HP but were magically kept alive will finally die and be buried as heroes as the rightful child lord is restored to lead the han.

-- Stan

Edited April 15 by Stan Shinn

[Runeblogger]

I ran a similar campaign, some years ago. 🙂  We had a great time. As for your campaign, if you want lots of ronin, I think it is best to start around mid 16th to mid 17th c.

Oh that reminds me, Pete Nash once told me about the Bushido campaign he played for 26 years (!). Read about it here! 👈

[Zit]

I'm not sure that all the differences cited by @Atgxtg really matter. What is important is if you can use the statsblocks of RQ3 in a BRP game and I think it would be quite easy since they are almost same. The way they are used may differ but you actually don't really care if the experience rolls are different, skills capped in RQ and not BRP (just stop capping them) or even if attack and parry are separate (use only best of both). You may just add 50% of the armour/weapon APs and that's it.

(is there no strike rank option in BR:UGE ? It was in the prevous version).

Magic may be trickier but I'm not even sure.

[Atgxtg]

4 minutes ago, Zit said:

I'm not sure that all the differences cited by @Atgxtg really matter.

Hence why I wrote "There are differences, just how important they are may or may not matter much to you." Much of it will come down to prefences in rulesets. Some thing will impact game play singficantly (differences in parrying rules, skill caps and POW gain for Rune Spells) but how much that matters to individual GMs and groups will vary. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Zit said:

What is important is if you can use the statsblocks of RQ3 in a BRP game and I think it would be quite easy since they are almost same. The way they are used may differ but you actually don't really care if the experience rolls are different, skills capped in RQ and not BRP (just stop capping them) or even if attack and parry are separate (use only best of both). You may just add 50% of the armour/weapon APs and that's it.

The statblocks are basically the the same but there are some differences in actual stat values (cultural modifiers for instance). Animals seem to hanve shrunk in UGE. A BRP:UGE Tiger is SIZ 16-17 while an RQ3 Tiger was SIZ 26, so RQ3 critters and monsters will be bigger, stronger, tougher, and dealier than what people are expecting in UGE.

A bigger problem will be RQ3's magic. In RQ magic isn't limited to professional spellcasters, and pretty much everybody knows some magic.  RQ adventures pretty much suppose that just about  every experienced character knows a minor weapon enhancing spell, some defensive magic, and some healing.  The healing would be a thing, since PC won't have quite the "bounce back" ability in UGE that they would have in RQ3. 

A GM will also have to either drop a lot of the magic from the NPCs or add more magic to his campaign, or else the NPCs will wipe out the PCs pretty easily. Good Samuai Warriors with 60% skill have Bladesharp 3 (+15% attack, +3 damage) , Demoralize, and and Protection 2 (+2 armor) for magic, and that would give them a huge edge against mundane PCs. 

Now a GM can cut most of the magic out, but a lot of the spiritual stuff in RQ was tied to the magic so you loose a lot of that. Since the OP has LotN they probably got an inkling of what I mean here. You pretty much lose the entire Religion & Magic section of LotN, which plays an important part of the culture. Some familiarity with RQ really helps here. Plus if you take out the magic then the PC will tend to be underpowered and vulnerable compared to the RQ characters the scenarios were written for. 

4 minutes ago, Zit said:

(is there no strike rank option in BR:UGE ? It was in the prevous version).

Yes it does, and it's mostly the same as RQ3, but UGE doesn't have Spirit Combat, which would be important for LotN. It has most of the components (POW vs POW rolls and POW increases), it just hasn't got the Magic point losses for spirit combat.  Not that the Spirit Combat rules couldn't be ported over.

4 minutes ago, Zit said:

Magic may be trickier but I'm not even sure.

Yes, especially the sequencing. On page 80 of the UGE it states that sorcery spells take a full round (10 Strike Ranks) to cast while in RQ casting time was DEX SR+Magic Point cost of the spell. So you can't get a spell off before someone whacks you with an axe in UGE.

Now all of the difference can be death with by a GM familiar with the game system, but it will take some work.  A GM who want's to run BRP:UGE would probably do better by not porting anything over except perhaps the scenarios, and some of the monsters, and even those will need to be modified to fit the system.

 

Again, this could all be ported over to BRP:UGE but RQ would be a better fit. Because otherwise, what is there to use? I mean you got Japanese weapon and armor stats already in BRP, BRP uses a different chargen process than RQ, somewhat different skills, and a somewhat different magic system. So if don't use any of the RQ mechanics there isn't all that much to take from LotN. A few short scenarios.  Unless a GM has at least a passing familiarity with RQ they won't really know what they are losing, and if they are familiar with RQ then they probably have a copy and could use that instead of BRP.

[Zit]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

UGE doesn't have Spirit Combat

psychic combat is pretty much the same, isn't it (I don't have the rules at hand) ?

[Ian Absentia]

18 minutes ago, Zit said:

psychic combat is pretty much the same, isn't it (I don't have the rules at hand) ?

They aren't identical, but are highly compatible.  Perhaps the major difference is that Psychic Combat involves a standard 1d3 damage per attack, while RQ Spirit Combat has variable damage based on POW and CHA.  I'm sure that other differences will be cited, but the effect in play will be largely unnoticeable.  Which leads me to add...

...that in the day I loved the Land of Ninja boxed set.  But I'd already moved on from straight RQ3 and used it as a fundamentally compatible source guide for my personal house-ruled BRP system that all of my friends understood.  In fact, did I ever play straight-up RQ3?  The major loss of signal was with regard to Divine (i.e., Rune) Magic, but none of my players ever played priests or shugenja, so this form of magic was backdrop or GM special effect.  Other supplement-specific systems (like Ki Skills) can pretty much be adopted to BRP with little or no modification.  Some, like Honor Points, might merit some tinkering with Passions and Personality Traits, which I ported in from Pendragon back when.

My advice is to do a little side-by-side comparative reading and see what systems from the new edition of BRP work with your vision of Land of Ninja.

!i!

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Zit said:

psychic combat is pretty much the same, isn't it (I don't have the rules at hand) ?

Not exactly. 

31 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

They aren't identical, but are highly compatible.  Perhaps the major difference is that Psychic Combat involves a standard 1d3 damage per attack, while RQ Spirit Combat has variable damage based on POW and CHA.  I'm sure that other differences will be cited, but the effect in play will be largely unnoticeable.  Which leads me to add...

No, in RQ the damage was 1D3 before RQG. So that part would be the same. Some of the differences would be that in RQ you can ingore spirit combat from an opponent whose POW is way below yours, that someone had to be able to go dis-corporate to initiate spirit combat, that you needed to defeat a spirit in spirit combat to learn spirit magic spells. there were all sorts of possible side effects from losing spirit combat (dominant and covert possession, curses), and a host of spells and abilities that could impact the conflict, not all of which have been ported over to BRP (Spirit Screen in particular). 

But that's the thing with BRP. It's not RuneQuest 3. It's similar but it's not the same, and so porting anything from RuneQuest (or RuneQuest 2, Call of Cthulhu, or Stormbringer , or Elric! etc.) will require some adaptation and judgement calls, and even then won't play out exactly the same. No it's not bad that it's not the same but it is different. 

 

35 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

My advice is to do a little side-by-side comparative reading and see what systems from the new edition of BRP work with your vision of Land of Ninja.

I agree. BRP main strength, IMO is that it collects a lot of previous stuff under one cover to serve as a toolkit, making it easier for GMs to pick and choose what they want for a given setting. For instance, BRP has a rule for multiple parries that I think would work well for a LotN campaign, and Strombringer had a rispote rule that would work well too. They would be great for games where one lone Samurai can take down several opponents. But it all comes down to what sortof Medieval Japanese setting the GM wants. 

[Mugen]

BR:UGE + The Book of Magic should be enough to play with Land of Ninja, with the caveat that the latter has a few RuneQuestisms that were not correctly removed. Also, keep in mind that this magic system is meant to be used with the POW experience checks.

I think OpenQuest is close enough to be used with LoN, and it's far more simple.

Note that if you want to play in Japan with a BRP-related system, you can try Legend + Samurai of Legend. But, despite being a RQ3 descendant, I think it's too far from the origin to use LoN without modifications. It might be a good inspiration source, though.

Edited April 16 by Mugen

[DreadDomain]

In my opinion, the best d100 Rules to Run 'Land of Ninja' would be RQ3 peppered with preferred alternate or optional rules from BRP.

[Stan Shinn]

5 hours ago, Mugen said:

Note that if you want to play in Japan with a BRP-related system, you can try Legend + Samurai of Legend. But, despite being a RQ3 descendant, I think it's too far from the origin to use LoN without modifications. It might be a good inspiration source, though.

I'm definitely going to pick up Samurai of Legend! I didn't know it existed until you mentioned it. It has the benefit of still being a live product, you can buy PDF or hardcopies of both Legend and Samurai of Legend (unlike LoN which is out of print and expensive on the second hand market; I have a copy but players need a way to get to the rules). 

[SDLeary]

2 hours ago, Stan Shinn said:

'm definitely going to pick up Samurai of Legend! I didn't know it existed until you mentioned it. It has the benefit of still being a live product, you can buy PDF or hardcopies of both Legend and Samurai of Legend (unlike LoN which is out of print and expensive on the second hand market; I have a copy but players need a way to get to the rules). 

And, it will also work if you want to use it with Mythras or Mythras Imperative, though might need slight tweaks due to age.

SDLeary

[RosenMcStern]

You might also look at this :

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/288761/Rise-of-the-Yokai-Koku

Magic rules are way more important than the rest in a spiritually rich environment like mythic japan. In this product, developed by me with a substantial help by Gianni, I have tried to highlight the difference between Buddhist and Shinto practices, something that is really under-represented in LoN. The subtle differences between esoteric Buddhism, exoteric Buddhism and Shugendo is also somehow implemented, whereas it is lacking in LoN, where shugenja are treated as sorcerers (!). Judging from your campaign plot, you might need a detailed frepresentation of Buddhist sects.

That said, LoN is still a gold mine of info about roleplaying in fantasy/historical Japan.

Edited April 16 by RosenMcStern

[Atgxtg]

 

I think I should point out the OP's question was if "BRP was a good fit for Land of the Ninja?", not "Can I use LotN with BRP?."

It's kinda of like using a Cthulhu Invictus scenario with BRP Rome or Mythic Rome. Sure you can do it, but obviously there is going to be Cthulhu Mythos stuff in the adventure that won't be in BRP Rome or Mythic Rome, that will only make sense if you are familiar with Cthulu Invictus and CoC. 

 

A lot of this will come down to just what a GM want's to use from LotN:

• Chargen , weapon stats (which you mostly don't need as BRP covers them), cult write ups,  divine, spirit and sorcery magic,  ship stats, and economics are all for RQ3 and wouldn't port over directly to BRP. 
• Names, Homelands, New Skills, Ki Skills (although some of the actual skills are different), Social Castes, Clan Structure, HON, Drinking Rules, Ninja Skills, Ninja Equipment, most creature stats, and the scenarios probably would port over directly.(except for the magic). 

 

 

[Stan Shinn]

28 minutes ago, RosenMcStern said:

You might also look at this :

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/288761/Rise-of-the-Yokai-Koku

Very interesting! I'll check it out, thanks!

[David Scott]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:58 PM, Stan Shinn said:

I have a copy of the 'Land of Ninja' box set that was published during the Runequest 3rd Edition era. It's basically the old Bushido fantasy-Japan setting but updated with d100 rules.

Played and GMed it. If you have a set of RQ3, just use that. Otherwise use BRP & The Magic Book: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/82071/The-Magic-Book (which has the all RQ3 magic and is still available see https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/role-playing/systems-versions/ for the relationship.).

 

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Played and GMed it. If you have a set of RQ3, just use that. Otherwise use BRP & The Magic Book: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/82071/The-Magic-Book (which has the all RQ3 magic and is still available see https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/role-playing/systems-versions/ for the relationship.).

 

"He got all of that one! It's outta here!!"

The Magic Book does solve the magic system difficulties. 

 

[Nozbat]

Didn’t Mongoose do a Samurai of Legend book? I’ve never seen it but I do have the Vikings of Legend.. if it’s the same format the PCs have demigod-like  stats..

Anyone ever used/ seen it?

[Ian Absentia]

20 minutes ago, Nozbat said:

Didn’t Mongoose do a Samurai of Legend book? I’ve never seen it but I do have the Vikings of Legend.. if it’s the same format the PCs have demigod-like  stats..

Anyone ever used/ seen it?

It's mentioned up-thread.  I haven't played it myself, but I understand that it has a reputation for escalating the level of power in play.  Swords especially?

!i!

[Nozbat]

1 hour ago, Ian Absentia said:

It's mentioned up-thread

Sorry must have missed that ..somewhat scatty at the moment and skim reading stuff

[Ian Absentia]

No worries.  And you underscored a rumor that I'd heard about the tone of Samurai of Legend that may differ from Land of Ninja.  I generally played LoN as a fairly straight sim of Kurosawa films and similar chanbara.  By contrast, I've come across the term "atomic katanas" used in reference to Legend.

!i!

Edited April 16 by Ian Absentia

[Nozbat]

Samurai of Legend is still available at Mongoose.. I’m tempted to buy it.. but like the idea of Rouen module better which would fit into my current Early Modern Period campaign. I had previously looked at the Vikings as a possible source material for an Anglo–Saxon game but discarded the idea due to superhuman characters. However, I’m intrigued by nuclear katanas and Samurai doesn’t cost that much
 

https://www.mongoosepublishing.com/products/samurai-of-legend-1